McIntosh -- good for show, not for sound, says dealer

Wise man indeed and with knowledge...

I will only add that this "holistic"  approach must put acoustic listening experiments at the front...

Thanks...

Music lovers can achieve nirvana at any budget with any gear, as long as they know what they want and use a holistic approach when building a system.

Wise post and some few words saying the essentials...

Thanks ...

Or your goals may be more like Herb Brooks (USA Hockey gold medal coach 1980) where he wasn't looking for the best players(components). He was looking for the "right" ones.

 

Brand matter way less than acoustic...

This resume all audio threads unbeknowst gear idolatry ignorance and some sellers professionally biased oriented ignorance...

Jay is a very honest person in his review....I liked very much his video....

brain+heart is a winning couple ....

I can say that even if i am at the opposite of his way of speaking about audiophile experience and costly gear.... (I insist myself on no cost products and acoustic....)

But the world is enough big from different perspectives and needs...

It is not false but it is not true either like many encompassing statement...

I like to discuss about "sound" but i listen music because my system and audio room are done...

Then i like to discuss what come about from my experience and experiments to help strirring what appear to be the right course for most and for me....

I am in the two categories at the same time.. . The most important category of people here i think....

None of you that constantly argue about the "sound" are actually into this hobby for the music.

Hilde is right....

And in real life there is 2 kind of people like in Hollywood cinema too: those who stake so much for truth that they can apologize if their words were misundestood or overstated and those who cannot because of their ego...

Ego people are not bad, we all have an ego, but in some criticial situation ego matter less than truth and intention must be clarified in a way or in an another...

Hilde make a good point with a no "insults" thread appealing to a clarification....

I concur with him....Clarification has been made...

Joke aside!

The worst is people commenting highly costly gear in non specifically controlled room ...They delude themselves listening the difference between amplifiers for example instead of creating a specific environment for a specific amplifier and not for another one...They ignore the acoustic power to bent the room in relation to a gear choice...

The consequence is they listen more to the sound of the chosen gear than to the music coming from the room.... When we read their review it is evident....

The truth is i prefer to keep my 500 bucks Sansui/Mission system with my controlled room not because my system is better, this would not be a true statement nor a meaningful one, but because my system optimzed give me a ratio S.Q./price over the roof already even if their potential S.Q. may be better...

We Sansui cultists eat any Marantz or McIntosh guy each day....

Their gear is chicken shit...Anyway we eat them....

😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😊😊😊😊😊😊

We must think Hilde the OP to have put this video here to awake our attention...

He knows very well that the focus on the gear is the main FIRST necessity when we create our own system but it is also our first limitation when we begin...This limitations or characteristic of our gear choice will be compensate by the acoustic correct tuning for them anyway...

Acoustic is the thing that matter more than any gear choice because any relatively good choice of gear will do...

But the ultimate S.Q. will come from acoustic treatment and control not from the gear...

People dont understand that really, it is normal, they NEVER did a room by tuning it to assist the gear by themselves, then they never contemplate the complete transformation of the gear... COMPLETE transformation...Going from a nude room to a room made synergetically to serve the specific gear for our specific ears... At the end the objective result is also a completely subjective one... It is NOT a contradiction it is a PROCESS....

Because they dont understand the process to create a real audiophile experience with almost any good gear...

And appearence and price tag is the rule among human not basic elementary listening experiments in acoustic...

Why must people try to fell superior by trying to diminish the choices of others. I would ask the posters who feel sorry for certain gear owners, would you fell sorry for me because I enjoy driving my 1958 Bugeye Sprite with power nothing over my twin turbo Mercedes?

I am astounded by the focus people put on the gear...

I perfeclty know why now...

They dont know how to make the better with what they already own...

There is no relation between any system before and after acoustic treatment and acoustic control...NONE...

I dont give a dam about the gear now...

Give me any relatively good speakers, dac, and amplifier, i will make them sound very very good....Any gear...It is easier with the best for sure thats all....It is impossible with very bad cheap design also yes for sure...But i speak about any relatively good one...

Acoustic is the road not a branded name of amplifier save for ignorant reviewer...

It is like most people wanted to sell their taste in gear revealing their complete ignorance in acoustic...

I prefer to sell and educate about a  process...

Among all the basically good amplifiers there is no absolute better amplifier, not only because the conditions where the evaluation is done matter...But because the relation between our needs and the other piece of gear are very specific...

And for example which is the best amplifier for the S.Q./ price ratio?

What is the better amplifier to pair with a specific speakers or turntable?

What is the amplifier you will enjoy the most at first listening?

Etc...

It was not a lament of my part here... just an example to reveal that gear interest people not complex acoustic...

I used to have almost no answer in my thread :)

It is better that way....

Nobody has see my room the photos in my virtual page are years old already...It is way much more mad... It is an acoustic laboratory for me... I dont give a dam for esthetic i dont want to give one bucks first, sceond i want to created myself my own devices... They dont exist in the market anyway.... Acoustic is way more complex than what those who sell panels say it is...

It is the reason why i learned that acoustic matter way more than any relatively good piece of gear ,even if their sound colore and flavor are all different...Mc Intosh, Sansui or any relatively good amplifier will do even if i love my Sansui...A

Acoustic is not about flavor but about complete recreation of all acoustic characteristc of perceived sound....

Someone who own a dedicated controlled room dont want to upgrade....i will not.... Even if i know that my dream Amplifier will be better than my Sansui : Berning ZOTL...My ratio S.Q./price is already optimal ....

Then people must pick the amplifier they like and after that go into acoustic... Bashing other amplifier they dont like is children play... Especially when most people have never listen to their own system really and dont know his peak working  potential because their living  room is at best simply treated with few panels and in most case not even treated... Then with a non mechanically controlled room the system and the room dont play together at all synergetically FOR YOUR SPECIFIC EARS....

“In my new thread about acoustic almost no answer ...Why?”

@mahgister

You need to know your audience..does that ring a bell? Most folks here can’t rival or afford your level of dedication to room acoustics. I mean just look at your room, it should be a national treasure. There is something other worldly about the room and your exquisite work, have you contacted Guinness World Records?

Thanks hilde for your kind words...

But remember something important also about what i called mechanical equalization... Which is different than the room treatment only...

Here the mechanical TUNING add something no room treatment is able to do alone, it bent the room to what the system is asking for, for your specific ears...

It is this ignorance about the complexities of acoustic that made people FOCUS on upgrade and piece of gear mainly to improve their experience...

Alas! Like i said the greatest solution is a dedicated room not a new amplifier if the amplifier you already own is basically good...

Then first you choose your flavored prefered system in a treated room...

Second you bent the room for it with mechanical equalization and guess what ? the S.Q. is over the roof for your ears with this system...

there is difference between any system but not so powerful to compared with an acoustic settings designed for his optimal working...

Here we speak of gear plenty of people answer...

In my new thread about acoustic almost no answer ...

Why?

Because acoustic is complex matter and it is more easy to buy gear....

You are right about some gear being not very good to begin with...

But most quality gear are basically good.... It is a taste question more than objective quality....

Then kNowing that the gear is secondary to acoustiic...

Give me any basically good amplifier and i will make it sound more than good...

How?

With acoustic treatment with passive materials and especially with mechanical acoustical controls...

Then bashing or celebrating a piece of gear means lttle at the end... Like the speakers, no amplifier sound the same in different room...

All amplifiers has different flavor sound for sure, but this flavor is not so much compared to the acoustic increase of their working in the acoustical environment tailor made for their speakers link in a specific room...

Bashing other gear or celebrating the gear we love is human but it is not serious audio experience...

i myself love my Sansui so what?

The most important thing is the system /room relation and this relation is always very specific andoptimized for the system and the ears of the owner...

Audiophile are ignorant focussing on the gear price tag or particularities that exist but at the end that are secondary...

i never listen McIntosh...

People who has never listened to their system in a controlled room cannot know his peak working potential S.Q.