I got the BSN to run to my NAD M51 DAC and everything sound like the treble has been turned up +10db. The bass is also weak. I use Qobuz and Tidal and both sound the exact same way. I can listen to cd’s is my Oppo of the same music with no problem.
I will never understand attempting to describe, rate, or rank the sound of a streamer without any listing of the type, brand, and model of cable and listing the DAC. They are interdependent with the lowest common denominator being controlling. This all becomes pronounced when talking about intro-level streamers because the user will likely have a low-end cable and DAC too. So it is anyone's guess as to which component is most to blame if not two or all three.
I would wager that with a top end DAC and cable the differences among streamers becomes compressed.
@lalitk I have no doubt the sound quality improved from the Node to the Lumin, put down your oscilloscope and actually listen for a change. I experimented with a Node 2i, iFi Zen Stream and Innuos Zenith MkIII all into two different DACS and each combo sounded really obviously different.
I bought a NODE 2021 a few weeks ago and ran it in for about 100 hours, connected to a Jolida Glass FX tube DAC via either a coaxial or toslink cable. SQ was disappointing at best. I experimented with the settings, until I ultimately arrived at what @christianb5s4 found to work best in his system:
"I had tone control off, subwoofer off, fixed output, MQA external on."
After over 100 hours I gave up and put the NODE away, thinking I’d return it to the dealer and trade up.
Today, about a week later, on a whim, I put the NODE back into my system and was very pleasantly surprised at how much better the unit sounded. I have no idea why because I made no other changes in my kit.
So the takeaway for me is that "for the money" the BS NODE is an excellent investment. The app works great on my MacBook Air, and the NODE is clearly (no pun) better than using the Mac into the DAC.
Plus a big fringe benefit is that I got rid of a long USB cable which was awkward and unsightly. I may upgrade eventually- Lumin, Aurender, Gold Note, Naim, etc, but for now I’m quite pleased.
I have the N130 and it sounds great. Although the first thing I had to do was turn off the volume control in the app. It made a huge difference in the sound quality.
the node is decent sounding devicehowever a better server does improve the sound quality in a very audibile way
we are streaming specialists and sell the node roon nucleus and 432evo servers servers as well as a few others the idea that bits is bits is a fallacy the difference in a streamer can dramatically improve the sound comming from the dac
to date we have tested auraylic aurender Inous sotm modified mac minis and a few others the 432evo servers have proven to sound better theprevious servers and allow for mode lto model upgading
Thiel speakers can be really revealing of the source, maybe more than any speakers I've heard yet. In my system they sounded good with my digital source, but a little like you described with my analog source. Too bright. I think your issue probably has more to do with your speakers and electronics than the Node.
Glad to hear you figured it out. I agree with @oddiofyl… moving up in streamers will really help. I recommend Aurender… as high a level as you can afford. They are really natural sounding and get better and better in no small increment moving up their offering.
Good to hear you sorted it out. Bluesound is good for the money, you need to spend a good amount more to better it in my opinion. My next move will be something like a Lumin or Aurender , but that will have to wait until next year as I went a little overboard with upgrades this year.
I also ran a Bluesound N130 with upgraded power supply via coax into originally a Denafrips Venus 2 then into a Terminator plus. I never had issues with the sound. Both DACs are obviously a big improvement over the internal one. I also very much liked BlueOS and the upgraded power supply improved performance slightly but not night and day.
I did upgrade to the full Lumin U1 and the improvement in sound was not subtle. But for what the Bluesound is, it’s a great device as a first streamer. Ears don’t lie, and in my system, streamers make a difference. But of course it comes at a much higher cost which comes down to what it's worth to each person.
I had tone control off, subwoofer off, fixed output, MQA external on.
FWIW, I had the last iteration of the Node before this one. I would describe the sound exactly as you did, a slight metallic sheen over the music. I replaced a raspberry pi player with the node and although the user interface was much improved, the SQ took a half step backwards. The Lumin U1 mini I eventually bought was a pretty big improvement over the Node IMHO.
First off my settings have always been set correctly from the beginning, so let’s take off the table.
Secondly, the brightness calmed down about 30% +/- with leaving the unit on form a few day, noticeably so.
Thirdly, I did the whole cable dance thing and that went a good way to helping get the right timber and tone, and I was able to eliminate the metallic sheen from songs I know to not have it.
Fourthly, this system has Thiel CS2.4 for speakers, which if you know are VERY reveling to upstream equipment. Rewarding if done right, brutal if not. The speakers were set up, when I put the BSN, for my analog system which had toe in about 10 degrees which provided great sound - for the TT set up. My system is in a relatively small room, with room treatment, but small nonetheless, thus I had settled for some toe in. However, it dawned on me that Thiel’s advise is actually little to no toe in, so I rearranged the speaker toe to zero and bam, sound came together - on certain songs.
What I’ve noticed is that with certain music the sound is great, but like any other media the recording dictates the quality the most and some 80’s and 90’s digital music is just VERY bad, and this system just reveals it bare.
Another post in favor of "there's something wrong with the configuration." While different streamers can have a bit of difference in sound, it shouldn't be as you describe, with something sounding "broken."
I like the latest version NODE. I’m very pleased with the sound improvement compared to streaming through my iPad Pro to an Apple AirPort Express. Perhaps an external DAC would be an improvement. I’ve read that a $2K DAC will result in a modest improvement, but I’m not ready to make that jump.
Irrelevant to to these specific problems, but I discovered an anomaly in settings of the node 130. The MQA out selection does not switch the MQA digital out on and off - it is permanently on. Instead, it switches the Nodes own MQA unfolding/ rendering on and off. Discovered when noticing that certain 2L tracks on Qobuz are MQA -unfold to 24/352.8. Same as MQA cd when the TEAC does the rendering.
RP unfolds to 24/44.1. Looking forward to their promised 24/96 MQA stream. World beaters SQ wise, imho.
You may have either a defective unit or the settings are wrong and it’s something for the Bluesound support folks. There are other streamers that sound better that are more expensive, but the difference should be that the others have better SQ not that the NODE sounds bad in an obvious way such as you describe.
BTW, to NODE detractors, as a DAC/streamer it’s SQ can be much improved by changing out the PSU module and using an L PSU (such as the Fidelity Audio PSU module & LPSU). That worked really well for me.
And now that I’m using an external DAC (Gustard X26 Pro) via usb, it is working great as a streamer in my system.
I just bought one a few months ago and it sounds great! I’ve tried Optical, coax and usb. Usb sounds the best in my system.
As far as set up, the only thing I changed was the volume is set so the node doesn’t control it, my amp does. And that’s it.
I have three Bluesound nodes (exercise room, guest cottage, kitchen). Two are the older version of the Node 2 and one is the latest. I run Tidal, Spotify, and IDagio through them, and have never had the issue you describe. Either you got a lemon or their's some setting that got switched, or just some loose connection. In any case their service Dept will help you track down the problem or replace.
I have a five of the node 2i units in different systems around the house. While each of these systems also have cd players, turntables and in most cases an outboard DAC I use node through its analog RCA output. Streaming service is Tidal and I do MQA whenever possible. One of the systems does feed an outboard DAC. I had the Mytek Brooklyn + and found it to be somewhat bright. I am now using a Cambridge 200 and like the sound better. I also like the nodes by themselves. While I have heard direct comparisons against better sounding/more expensive units, I think the Bluesound is an incredible value for the money!
Wondering if you read my post above? I have been a very happy owner of a 2i for the last couple of years, running it though an external DAC.
To repeat:
You will want to make sure the tone controls are set to off and that you have the volume set to "output level fixed", (the latter assuming you are using a separate preamp and not using the Node's preamp function).
Ive been over all my connections several times not to mention all the settings. I think people here may be right when they say there is something wrong with it.
Exchange it for another one. I have a Node in my office system, and a Powernode in my bedroom system… both sound very good. Something’s wrong with the one you got.
Also, for a fun experiment, see if you get similar results from a laptop (as a streamer). Will be enlightening either way.
I agree with other comments. I suspect that you have a faulty Node. I bought mine a year ago with the sole purpose of streaming Radio Paradise MQA. Used as a stand alone until buying a TEAC ud701N which accepts MQA in via spdif and usb. Having read your findings I had a session today with the Node as a stand alone player/DAC, listening to RP and quobuz hires tracks. Bass is solid with good definition of bass guitar and kick drum. Not quite as good as the TEAC nor is the wide detailed top end. I don’t hear what you describe. Amp is Luxman and speakers Dali Epicon 6 with hybrid soft dome and ribbon tweeters. Reasonably resolving. Mazzy Star is playing as I write and lovely “air” to vocals and instruments. Hope you solve the mystery. Both TEAC and node are fed with Audioquest cinnamom ethernet cat 7. Audioquest power cables and Chord rca/ XLR./ coax.
Thanks for the responses I’ll respond to a few questions
i did turn off the clock. Didn’t make any difference
i use the coax and toslik out to evaluate. The coax is a good hi-end cable.
I have not tried going straight from the BSN rca out to the preamp.
this system used an ARC Classic 60 tube amp, Herron 1a/166 preamp, and the NAD M51 DAC. Speaker cables are PAD, and cabling is all over the place now, but is currently Cardas Clear light.
"What I mean is the song is the song (the digital data), from a digital standpoint unless it get modified in the digital realm,"
It does get modified in the digital realm by xmos chip or similar when converting the streaming signal to something that can be transmitted via cable which sounds like optical in your case. Optical typically has the lowest resolution/sq compared to usb AES or I2S. I would try a usb connection if the hardware has that option and as others have said, seems like a setting somewhere could be the main culprit....
”I always assumed to use it as a transport for the digital signal from the BNS and never use it’s internal DAC. So as long as the data file is “true” shouldn’t the SQ be determined by my outboard DAC?”
That is a very logical assumption… but just not true. I have used many streamers from iPhones, MACs, through $3K, $5K an finally I own a $22K Aurender flagship steamer… each step provided better sound (you must have a DAC up to the task of course). My Aurender is simply stunning and brought my digital end to the level of performance to the high end analog side of the system.
I also have an Aurender N100 in my headphone system. You can see my systems under my UserID.
I highly recommend looking at an Aurender streamer… they come at many price levels. They only make streamers and many of the best.
I own and have upgraded the power supplies in both the 2i and n130. I’ll pre qualify my observations - I’m streaming Tunein radio and Spotify, not the ultra fidelity services. Entry level. Anyway, stock the 2i has a warmer, cozier presentation while the n130 is less coarse, more dynamic and open/detailed, comparatively a bit tipped up and light in the bass. Adding a MHDT Orchid brought a very minor reduction in glare to each. As in, What? Did I just blow $1200?
The power board upgrade brought better extension, low level detail and boosted bass, the Orchid now crushing the internal DAC s. The n130 streamer still a bit hot on top for my taste and a mellower tube in the Orchid helped some. It is without a doubt the better performing streamer-only option (using external DAC) of the two. The 2i streamer has a lot of grunge by comparison. As for taming the top end, I tried the Schiit Loki mini, liked it, and have the Loki max, love it.
I just got my node setup yesterday. Had a lot of problems initially and with the help of their it persons got it working great. No problems with the sound yet. I did buy the unit used from another individual, so I don’t know if there were problems before.
That said, I did a factory reset (pay attention to the led colors) , deleted the BLos app, and reloaded it again. After about 45 min , everything was up and running.
One suggestion I might make is to remove the Dac from th signal path to see if that makes a difference. Second , change the inputs coming into your preamp and evaluate. You might have done this already to track down the gremlin. This process would show what the problem is. It might be even bad cables or a connection problem.
I know it is frustrating, I had the same type of problems with my turntable hookups. Rerouted cables did the trick for me with that. Good luck.
Did you turn off the clock as another poster suggested? This has a huge impact on sound quality. It always makes a positive difference when you have an external DAC
Beyond the basic troubleshooting, there are plenty of threads here on how to get best possible sound from BSN. If you’re new to streaming, there is a bit of learning curve (probably not as deep as your analog) so you need to be patient and allow BSN to settle in your system. When using a external DAC, make sure you’re using a good digital SPDIF or USB cable. You mentioned hearing a slight metallic sheen in your music with BSN, here are couple of things you can do to restore naturalness to the music,
1) Upgrade Ethernet cable to Supra CAT 8 (buy from eBay seller zendada)
2) Upgrade PC cable to Shunyata V14 - C7 or similar
3) Try a inline LAN filter like Acoustic Revive RLI-1GB-TripleC (buy from eBay)
All of the above tweaks + external DAC should help you get most out of BSN in its stock form. There is power supply upgrade as well for additional $258 but I wouldn’t go that far yet.
To the original poster, I would return the B/S Node and perhaps try another one from another vendor to hopefully not get one from the same batch run. If it (the first one) is defective you’ll find out.
Sadly this goes for nearly anything in manufacturing the last two years. Manufacturing items in fits and starts due to Covid, supply chain issues, particularly the chip shortages, has lowered overall statistical quality of many items from streamers to cars.
Since we know many have the Node and are happy with it at its price point, this tone anomaly does seem to indicate something is amiss. Good luck!
And thanks to @Alvin1118 for the heads up about the Auto Clock on the BS Node. Something to keep in the back of my mind if I ever get one.
Not to hijack this post, but obviously many of you on here have tried the gambit of low priced streamers up to ones far more than I could afford.
My question is this: How do you think the sound quality of an iPAD feeding an external DAC via USB compares to say the Bluesound Node feeding the same DAC via USB? Would there be any noticeable or notable differences?
Currently I use an iPAD to feed a Schiit Modi II but was looking at getting a Denafrips Ares II as my "end game" better DAC. Would I hear (in theory) a better quality of sound, or does the limitation of the iPAD say I ought to get a better streamer as well one day to pair with the Denafrips?
I don’t know if I agree with the digital being rolled off. What I mean is the song is the song (the digital data), from a digital standpoint unless it get modified in the digital realm, the reproduction of the song (analog section) however can obviously make a difference. I guess it’s analogous to tv, the digital rendition of Star Wars is the what it is, but your DVR (pick your poison here) ultimately determines the quality of the picture along with the TV.
Which means to say l’ve been using my DAC on other CD transports; cheap and expensive with literally very little difference in sound quality and with certainly no rolling off frequencies
I mean, every CD player specifications I’ve ever seen has a frequency response that’s flat from like 2 Hz to 20,000 Hz plus or +/-1 dB.
Maybe your previous stuff was rolled off and the Node is just showing you what is really there? But that’s academic. If you don’t like it, give it back. Simple.
The way the OP describes the problem makes it sound like a defective unit to me. And transports do matter. The DAC is the bigger determinant of the pairing, but the the situation is analogous to a disc transport DAC combination. You wouldn’t pair a top notch DAC with a $20 DVD player as a disc transport, and a poor player streaming into a good DAC will sound similarly compromised . I’ve used the Node 2 and streamers that cost 10 times as much. The more expensive players sound better but the Node has a decent “floor” if not as high a ceiling
A lot of audiophiles buy and then sell these Node products because they don’t like the sound quality even after upgrading the DAC. Just a fact. Don’t shoot the messenger.
I auditioned the Bluesound Node together with the Lindemann Limetree Bridge, I found the BSN did improve with better outboard DAC's but only marginally, with the Lindemann the better the DAC the better it sounded.
So as long as the data file is “true” shouldn’t the SQ be determined by my outboard DAC?
Yes…Maybe not 100% but very close for all practical purposes. As long as everything is configured and operating properly. At least that is my experience to date after 15 years of streaming.
So where did my thinking go wrong with this thing. I always assumed to use it as a transport for the digital signal from the BNS and never use it’s internal DAC. So as long as the data file is “true” shouldn’t the SQ be determined by my outboard DAC?
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