I remember long ago after experimenting with different analog interconnects thinking that digital could not matter. I swapped digital cables on a CD player / DAC combo thirty years ago ($500 each?) and my jaw dropped. It was as if someone walked in and swapped components several times more expensive. “But it shouldn’t mater!”
Well, you just never know until you try it.
I would look used (used cables.com) and try a 1/2 priced (originally) $100 cable from Cardas, or DHlabs
i would definitely look at a power cable for your integrated amp…these tend to really make a big difference, again, stretch and buy used.
Cables and interconnects can really make a difference. The best thing to do is to try some, maybe above your comfort zone. If you do not hear a big difference… then don’t waste your money.
At some point in your audio journey you will get to the point when they will matter, big time, and you will reap the rewards of your experience.
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Yes, a good digital cable matters, IMO. For quite a while I used a Blue Jeans from my CD player to my DAC, as I just couldn’t think it mattered too much, as it was….digital. I finally replaced it with a Silnote, purchased right here through AGone. Yes, more than $100, but it took all the glare out of my digital stream when installed, and much more ‘musical’. The Blue Jeans sounded ‘gritty’ in comparison. Much happier.
If you are going to do it, open up the wallet a a bit and get a good cable. I didn’t spend a fortune on the Silnote, but enough to make a significant difference. Just be aware, a digital cable, or any cable, can be too ‘soft’ or can be too ‘transparent’ depending on your rig, so understand which direction you want to go.
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Taking the focus off the cable for a minute- when you use Bluetooth to stream from the amp what are you streaming to?
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My experience with digital cables is very limited, so I'll give you my specific situation:
Bluesound Node ($600) connected to Maverick Audio Tube Magic D2 DAC with Sparkos Labs op amps ($400) with a digital cable.
First cable was a Blue Jeans Cable Silver-Plated digital coax ($30).
Second cable was an Audioquest Cinnamon digital coax ($100).
I did not hear any difference with this change in my system.
For reference, I have heard a difference with some power cables in my systems and with changes from Blue Jeans Cable LC-1 interconnects to Audioquest Chicago interconnects to Audioquest Sydney interconnections.
The reason that I purchased the Cinnamon digital cable was a direct result of my positive experience with power cable and then analog interconnect upgrades.
I have a new-to-me Denafrips Ares ii DAC that I am currently the Cinnamon cable to connect to the Bluesound Node. I have ordered a budget USB cable to see if I hear any difference with a different cable/interface.
I won't say that digital cables cannot make a difference, but the mechanism for a difference being expected is much more challenging to identify. I'm actually fairly happy that the audiophile rabbit hole seems to have a bottom in at least one area with my system.
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I had excellent results from a Waudio power cable that was available for under $50 on Amazon. It really improved things when connected to my Pathos Classic One Mkiii, but I didn't hear any difference on my other components.
I'll be surprised if a change in digital cables makes any difference for you, but I'll be shocked if it made a difference that was more significant than the difference you're hearing between your CD players DAC and your amps internal DAC.
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Digital coax cables do make a difference. I’ve owned about 6 or 7, finally achieving the synergy I was looking for. It’s not just 0’s and 1’s. It’s the internal design and construction of the cable to keep the signal moving in a pathway without reflections inside the cable. Also the 75ohm impedance needs to match the impedance of the source output and input to the dac.
1.5 meter length is often the optimal length for the coax. And high cost doesn't mean higher quality.
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Quality always matters. Luckily making a quality digital cable is not rocket science so that’s good from a cost perspective.
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Spend a little more.
If that’s your maximum budget then this a very nice cable. Haven’t used the Canare in years but remember it was a fairly smooth sounding cable, not the most transparent but pleasant sounding
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Mogami is always a safe and relatively affordable bet for quality wires.
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I believe you've analyzed your problem correctly. Quite sure a better coax cable should help but I don't think a $50 cable will do it. Audioquest makes decent coax cables but you may need something like the Carbon. If you order through someone like Amazon you can always return it if you don't hear a difference. I also recommend the Cardas coax (I use one) but you're talking alot more money,
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Very crucial; they all sound very different.
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@soix +1 This cable is surprisingly good. Don't be fooled by the cost. Easy return on Amazon if it's not a good fit for you.
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I am very grateful to all who responded. The tone of responses was also very positive. No knocks for having a lower budget set up than most on the site.
I will be experimenting with some of the suggested cables and cords. I can post the results if anybody is interested. As we are heading into the holidays, it may take a while to purchase and install.
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In brief: yes ….. it matters.
Cardas Clear works for me
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You say you recently purchased the amp. The amp and dac card may both need more break in time. I agree a digital cable may improve the sound, but I don’t think it will turn a dac you don’t like into one you do.
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Welcome to digital audio, where everything makes a difference. To answer your question, yes it makes a difference. Take advantage of Amazon’s liberal return policy and try a cable in the $100 range , you’ll hear a difference. As a Mid Fi guy I’m far from the exotic systems most have on this site. But I’m between that and where you are. What I’ve learned being cost driven is that everything matters and I’ve had to do it piecemeal. Starting with source, Bluetooth is a big limiter in SQ. Generally the gains in order are Bluetooth, laptop, Raspberry Pi, dedicated streamer. Then within that hardwired over wireless and especially Bluetooth. And optical can take you to a higher level. So for now try an upgraded digital cable. As for a budget power cord, yes it will help but generally not as significant as interconnects. On my budget power cable search, I used Sillnote Poseidon 1 meter cables. At the time they were $100, now they’re $200. Look for some used power cables, or consider Pangea. Being further along than you , I run a Schiit Yiggy with a Project Stream Box Ultra II , with comparable prices interconnects and power cords. Where your at , I would consider a Bluesound Node, hardwired and a decent pair if IC’s. Although you’re looking for a $50 cable, and I’m suggesting a $600 item, it would jump you way up and give you a platform to build on. But for now, yes get a budget digital cable, a budget power cord and build a cheap Raspberry Pi. Then after you’ve had that experience, get a Bluesound from a vendor that has a liberal return policy. Also remember this a a hobby and the journey is as important as the destination. So enjoy the trip and happy listening, Mike B.
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@motown-l I am not surprised by your findings at all. However in my opinion, digital cable is not your issue. The built in DAC in the integrated is the bottleneck. Think of a built in DAC in that integrated more from a convenience standpoint. It’s like a porta potty…
At this level, focus on components first, worry about cables last.
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Mogami doesn’t make digital cables. My favorite is Mapleshade and I like coax more than optical.
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@motown-l
I’m using an Audioquest Cinnamon digital cable, but they also have the Forest, which is pretty darn good as well.
All the best.
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+1, @audphile1
@motown-l
I recommend trying DH Labs Digital Coax as your last dash to squeeze maximum potential from your existing setup. If you don’t hear appreciable improvement with this cable then it’s time to upgrade the DAC. The DH Labs cable would be a solid investment towards future DAC upgrade.
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Cerious Technologies is the best of those that I've tried so far.
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designsfx` - Thanks for asking. Maybe I wasn't clear in my post. I am using an iPhone 12 to stream Amazon HD to the amp. The output sound is very close or at times better than CD's. No external cables required. This is what made me think it was the generic coax that may be to blame for my disappointment with the internal DAC.
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I tried to keep things under control when I started. I found an ebay seller. Pine Tree Audio. He also has a web site. Good quality low overhead company. COAX digital cable $40. Power cords are braided with very nice plugs. Prices vary/ I think mine were $50. Very nice people to deal with. Good luck and enjoy your improvements.
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I think it makes a huge difference I picked up a Jorma Digital cable used and the difference was ear opening one of the best purchases I've made.
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Can of worms and some great advice above. If you upgrade to not using your phone as a source (dedicated streamer) and upgrade the DAC and cables you will be rewarded. And how
A used LumimT2 is one such all in one device. (It supports native Amazon HD) it’s a great price point for what you get. Separates also great but will have a higher entry cost.
Also try a free Qobuz trail.
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@motown-l
I will give you two examples:
- On streamer to DAC I replaced a DH LABS SILVERSONIC USB cable with a CURIOUS USB cable. Big difference, so much more musical, less harshness, smooth to the ears yet plenty detailed.
- latest switch, from CD Transport to Dac, I replaced a AQ Carbon 48 hdmi with the Tubulus Concentus I2s cable. OMG, unbelievable difference as soon as I connected it. So much better detailing with incredibly tight bass and a very airy sense of space, gorgeous.
You can see more details about the equipment on my house of stereo system.
Digital interconnects have had the biggest sound improvement in my system vs power cables as my listening house has a dedicated line with zero interference. So yes, digital cables upgrades make a huge difference but it is not cheap.
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It’s a catch 22 mits not just the usb, or digital cable ,
but you have at least 2 Ethernet cables that too effect the sound quality
the Ethernet cable closet to the hub makes the most difference
the Ethernet hum too ,such as uptone audio ether regen around $630
makes a noticeable improvement , the synergistic research is the best I have hear
by a large margin but around $2k I will get one ,maybe I spent $5k just in hub and cables ,and don’t even have the top Ethernet hub , Top Digital sound quality cost over $10 k ,the dac alone is around $5k and up.
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Just bits and bites, right?
Well, yes. That is true.
As has been mention previously, the issue is not with the contents, but how it travels through the cable and if there is contamination or timing errors.
In many respects, both digital and analog demand decent cables, dependant on the system.
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I've never used RCA interconnects to transfer digital signals to a DAC. But theoretically, cables which are most resistant to RFI/EMI would least likely to interrupt any digital signal stream. My first choice is to use optical cable because it's completely immune from RFI/EMI. In my experience, the results are error-free streaming from my Apple TV at it's highest spec digital steaming capabilityy, (IRC 24 bit 48 MHz and my Sony UDP 1000ES disc player at it's highest spec into the internal DAC on my Anbthe STR pre-amp. And so far, I've heard no difference in SQ from more expensive streaming system. I'm 71 years old/; but my most recent hearing test about four years ago reveled that I can still hear 20KHz audio signals. I consider myself extremely lucky because I spent sixteen years in ambulances running a high volume of emergency responses with loud Federal Q sirens and later, electronic sirens without wearing any ear protection.
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@motown-l How crucial is the quality of a digital cable?
More crucial than I had recalled. Validated it again yesterday. Quite surprising.
After running an Analysis Plus Solo Crystal SPDIF Digital coax -or- Cardas Lightening 15 digital cable for 2 years between my streamer and dac, just for grins I swapped it out for a former 5-year old AudioQuest Cinnamon Digital coax. Like it was not even close and AQ is decent cabling.
Wow, the AP/Crystal Solo digital coax is amazingly fuller sounding, more midrange, with a more impactful sound stage. It matters more than I recalled for SPDIF/Coax. Perplexing. Would not have believed it until reverse testing it.
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Yet another surprising story. I changed speakers a little over a year ago and after fiddling around with positioning,swapping tubes and cables around, the sound was still "off." It couldn't possibly be the SPDIF....could it?I tried a couple from the junk box and the third one was magic.It's an old cheap boutique brand that I won at auction here on the 'Gon years ago. You never know. It replaced a Silnote that was formerly the very best in my setup. Everything matters.
I second that the AP/Crystal Solo is a fine cable. I liked it very much when I had XLR connections.
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I tried a couple of coax cables and they didn't really sound much better than my RCA outs so I tried one of the RCA cables in place of them and the sound was so much better. Maybe it has something to do with being unshielded, but I really can't say.
Then I tried Toslink and never looked back. It opened another can-o-worms but I found the right cable and have the most alive sound I've heard. One also can't forget about the two items being connected as they all perform differently.
All the best,
Nonoise
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@nonoise if you get a chance, check out that test video done by reviewer named Passion for Sound on YT. He does a form of audio signal playback test with a general USB cable and five other known brand shielded USB cables. For the preparation process in the test, he captures the deltas between each with a form of inversion process. Then, actually plays back the delta itself. You could graphically see, and hear the audible range differences, and hear the different signatures peeking through between each of the different USB cables. While I'm not explaining it very well...it was interesting to show how some cables are noisier than others and the shielded quiet cables were smoother, less detail/etch with less noise. Each cable produced different measurable and audible results you could hear.
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Hello motown-l. The cable quality is critical. Yes, it's "just" ones and zeros. But how distinct is the difference between them? How "fast" is the cable? Is the difference between them quick, clean, and sharp? You hear about "jitter." That is time smear in the cable. For cheap high speed cable, use the stuff TV cable companies use to hook up your cable tv box to the wall. BNC to Phono adapters are available if you can't solder. That cable carries very high frequencies and should perform well for you. Can you use an optical cable? Happy listening.
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YES Clock error is the bane of digital audio and cannot be properly fixed. Analogue has its own clock because the signal is transmitted in real time and never leaves real time. Digits are transmitted in blibs and blobs with no time control. Once the real, analogue, sound is chopped into billions of pieces, it can never be put back together correctly. No clock can perfectly replicate time itself.
It seems to me the different sounds people are hearing with different digital cables are merely different errors.
Perfect sound forever? For never.
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A cable favors the sound to your liking. As an manufacturer of tube audio components, we are exposed to many companies and have tried many digital cables. Your system most likely will respond to a cable differently that what other people's experience was in their system. We partnered with a speaker manufacturer five years ago at CAF and won the best of show award. Funny thing is that we forgot to bring a digital cable and used an old Adcom copper IC that we ripped in half and used that cable for the show. It is actually a nice sounding cable. My advise is to try a few different brands and construction maybe a silver, copper, just to get started with and learn how they impact the sound in your system. Then find a good one and be done with the cable search.
Happy Listening.
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Clock error is the bane of digital audio and cannot be properly fixed.
If that’s true, how do you account for the many extraordinary recordings that have been made directly to digital?
Analogue has its own clock because the signal is transmitted in real time and never leaves real time.
I’m an analog guy, but you’re not making sense. Wow & flutter affects both time and pitch. No analog system is completely immune from speed errors that are many times greater than the errors in any decent digital clock. In a sense, analog systems are never quite in "real time."
Don't get me wrong - I prefer analog. But there's nothing to be gained by pretending it's better than it is, or that digital is worse than it is.
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Don’t get me wrong - I prefer analog. But there’s nothing to be gained by pretending it’s better than it is, or that digital is worse than it is.
@cleeds Very wise words. And I’m encouraged by members here who have many more $$$ than I invested in both their vinyl and streaming sources have found streaming, properly implemented, can give vinyl a run for its money and possibly more. I reference several posts by @ghdprentice whose posts and experience I find to be very level-headed and experience based. As improvements in digital technology continue to improve at a fast pace and costs for digital processing continue to drop, I can only surmise it won’t be too long before one can create a near state-of-the-art digital source that rivals even the best vinyl rigs for pennies on the dollar. In any event, let’s not lose sight of that, whatever your choice of source material, it’s a very exciting time to be an audiophile!
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You can spend $10 or $10k for digital cable, but which one will sound better, you never know if not looking directly onto those point blank. It means that those saying that there are no differences are 99.999% correct leaving 0.0001% for wrong so do your math. It helps to test and bust science and assumptions.
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Reproducing sound digitally is like trying to draw a circle with an Etch-A-Sketch. But, we are getting pretty good at rendering those digital images.
Digital cables matter. Power cables make a difference, too. Personally, I find it interesting how much more "analog" things sound with less "digititus" when power delivery to an audio component is improved. Warmer. Less edgy. Less fatiguing.
I'd do both -- digital cable AND power if you want the best digital sound with what you own.
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+1 @waytoomuchstuff Power supplies and conditioners can make a huge difference in digital audio as noise is the arch enemy of better digital sound (all sound really, but I find it particularly impactful in digital setups).
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This is summarized by Tarun whose ears/taste I thrust. Among these cables that range from $50 to $1k, I have used Belden and Mogami and they play well.
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I tried six or seven coax cables as well. The worst was the entry level Synergistic Research Foundation. Warm, dynamic but had a very weird frequency response, lacked depth, just weird. However, their AtmosphereX Euphoria cable at 3X the price at $1.5K is everything that the Foundation lacked plus. Just fantastic and clobbered all other cables I tried (which were priced below $1K). Try it from an SR dealer with money back guarantee.
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