End Game Turntable suggestions

Consider adding a Rega RP10 or SME Model 6 to your list. Both are set it and forget it with excellent sound quality.

My main system is Zesto phono, line stage and amp with an SME 20/3 table.

"VPI HW-40 going for abt 11K used)"

Find the right seller and proper negotiating, you could probably get one for $10K or less. 

Used VPI's are plentiful, so you're in the driver's seat for what you want to pay.

I'd add the Rega P10 w/Apheta to your list for the "best" plug n play/set and forget table.

@vinylvalet  👍 nice suggestions 

As something more ambitious, a Technics 1200 G with the addition of an eBay Stainless Steel armboard coupled with an SME M2-9 would be rightfully nice, especially voiced with a Luxman Tungsten polymer record mat.

Back in my retail “daze” I had set up a few Luxman PD-171A with special edition Silver finish SME Model 310 tonearms that were sonically & aesthetically beautiful.

Of the choices provided, the Origin Live Sovereign seems most appealing.

Well for sure check out Pure Fidelity. Absolutely love my Harmony/OL Conqueror combo. Choose a lower arm in the range and you are close to your budget. I’m running a Charisma Signature One which is awesome at $4K check out the review that just dropped on Stereo Times. The PF tables are really well made and lovely to look at with gorgeous veneer and paint options. Good luck!

@boothroyd ,  The OP stated he won’t consider the SL1200G because of the looks which is very important to him.  I would also recommend the SME 6,  or a VPI Prime Signature with the gimballed  arm. There are many others which I can’t think of that may also be to your liking.  I owned a Rega Planar 3 and very much disliked the TT.  It sounded light with no body but I was using a Blue Point Special at the time, hence I do not recommend Rega. 

Thanks everyone for the suggestions so far and please keep it coming. @vinylvalet i will definitely add SME to the list, As for Rega,.....i am sure they sound good but i have this bias for mass that i will need to overcome. 

@dodgealum I will check out Pure Fidelity, was unaware of the brand.

@tablejockey VPI HW-40 is also 110-240v, which is a huge plus, not very common among US makers from what i see. If i can stretch the budget it really does check every box in my list. Also I heard it at a show last year, but of course how they sound on 200+K systems is a different matter...

Dear @musicmatters1206  : " End Game Turntable suggestions "

End game? really?.  It's almost impossible to have " end game " but the RP-10/tonearm combination is really near to and with a Lyra LOMC cartridge from Kleos to Atlas then Icould say: you are done.

But in my opinion you have a severe tweak system link with that phono stage that not only as 10k on output impedance that goes mainly but not only the HF range but additional its critical and way important to achieve a high quality system levels performance ist that the invese RIAA eq.curve has a high frequency deviation swing of 1db that affects not only the discrete notes but harmonics too and puts a colored/distorted sound reproduction. I know that you like it and my opinion is only that.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,

R.

1200G / Rega 8 or 10 are fabulous looking turntables and whatever’s sonically left isn’t worth worrying about.

It really, really isn’t.

I’ve not heard the Rega 10 but the 8 was certainly impressive.

Despite the low mass approach (or maybe because of it?) it had rock solid stability.

"If i can stretch the budget it really does check every box in my list. Also I heard it at a show last year, but of course how they sound on 200+K systems is a different matter..."

musicmatters1206-

If I were in the buying mode w/$10K burning in my pocket, a used HW40 would be on my short list.

While VPI is pooh poohed by the purists, I've never heard a properly setup VPI sound bad. I use a Classic, and like the traditional look, which the HW 40 follows.

Put a $5K+ LOMC and proper phono stage=done.

Agree.

Dear @musicmatters1206  : The RP-10 comes with an excellent tonearm too, read what M.Fremer posted in his review of the DD SAT XD-1 100K+ TT ( with out SAT tonearm ) using Lyra Atlat, top Ortofon and other top cartridges and comparing against the Continumm $$$$$ BD TT:

" The XD1 shares some sonic characteristics with Rega's revolutionary RP 10 turntable: ultrafast, clean transients throughout the audible frequency range; tight, fast bass; revealing midrange transparency; and overall sonic stability and focus. All these characteristics result, apparently, from careful attention paid to structural rigidity and the removal or prevention of unwanted vibrational energy "

R.

Thorens love my 1600. 

I own a VPI HW40 and am very happy with it.  I have also listened extensively to a Rega 10 and would be quite happy to listen to either one forever. 

Michell Gyro SE 

I also have a Michell Orbe SE but it required a full Pedersen mod to get it anywhere close to even an entry level SME.

Pedersen Michell Turntable Mod Kits

Avid and Woodpeckers are good looking and high end. 

End Game.. I guess that is where I’m at.  I decided to stop buying equipment .. and no more ice cream.

I’ve the VPI Signature 21, but avoid the unipivot arm.  I’m coming from a 1200G/Hana ML.  The Technics/Hana are a great value package, but I understand that you don’t want the 1200. .  I went with an end of the bank account cartridge, so that would not work, but it did make the VPI really sound great.  For me, the Signature 21 was the sweet spot for VPI.  Pretty sure the HW40 is a better turntable.

The SL-1200 will last you trouble free for 40 years with minimal maintenance 

why not get one

i still use mine from 1985-6

and one I bought. In late 90’s

all flawless, no belts, always turn on.,always precise, great sound, and reliable.

lifetime TT

End Game.. I guess that is where I’m at.  I decided to stop buying equipment .. and no more ice cream.

No more ice cream??! That's crazy talk!

End Game.. I guess that is where I’m at.  I decided to stop buying equipment .. and no more ice cream.

We have ALL said this at one time or another 😂

"I own a VPI HW40 and am very happy with it.  I have also listened extensively to a Rega 10 and would be quite happy to listen to either one forever."

@billstevenson that is really interesting. I will put P10 on my list, i just like the timeless look of the HW40 and its room presence. If the DD motor ever goes bad, any idea if there will be a problem in repairing? Thanks

I have the Avenger Reference with Rim, Lyra Etna. 

I think you would do well with the HW40. 

The only downside is the repair or maintenance on the DD motor.  Something I don't want to deal with ever. 

@rauliruegas thanks for taking the time to share your detailed thoughts.

On the Zesto phonostage -  must admit I don't fully grasp your point. I may like how it sounds, but that maybe because I don't know what to compare it with. I upgraded from a Jolida JD9 to this Andros II unit as it pairs well with the Zesto Let pre, and its definitely an upgrade, but keen to understand the shortcomings better.

I own and love the Rega P8 with the Alpheta 3 cartridge.  Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and to my eye the P8 looks so much nicer than big heavy TTs.  That's just an opinion, but there you have it.  Great performance, great looks.  Drop the mic. 😂

I have a trustworthy dealer that supplied most of my system including TT and PS.

He strongly suggested ClearAudio (which was cheaper) over the P10.

He said next up from the performance DC was either the ClearAudio Innovation Compact or Basic OR the Technics SL1000R, which surprised me.

He said the SL1000 beat his $55K AMG.

3rd hand info I know...good luck

Consider the Merrill-Williams REAL. A number of dealers were using them to demo their equipment at AXPONA and it sounded very detailed and tuneful. You might also look at Clearaudio and Acoustic Signature. 

I had a similar situation, only I limited myself to $5K. I decided on a VPI Prime and Hana SH. I have absolutely no regrets, even with the JMW 10.5" Unipivot arm. I handles the relatively low-compliance Hana MC easily. The two biggest advantages are 1) the longer length simply has less tracing error than an otherwise fine Rega or other 9" class tonearms, and doesn't suffer the high mass issues of a 12" transcription-style arm 2) The VPI adjustable height base is a joy. As for the turntable itself, the 20 Lb platter and equally massive plinth and motor work well together to provide very solid bass and ultra-quiet background. The mechanical derailling for 45RPM is trivial, and using the stock feet I have never felt the need for an extra isolation platform. I think the VPI Prime and now VPI Prime 21 owe no apologies to anyone, and the lower distortion from the longer arm is inarguable. 

read what M.Fremer posted in his review of the DD SAT XD-1 100K+ TT
 

“XD1's engine does begin life as the SP-10R's basic drive system”

Second or third the advice on Pure Fidelity. I really loved mine and only sold it because of my upgrade to my current Palmer.  I had just noticed that the good folks at Fidelis have a used one available which might be worth a call:

https://fidelisav.com/pre-owned/pure-fidelity-encore-pf10-w-stratos-cartridge-santos-rosewood-finish

The job of a turntable is to spin at the proper speed, prevent any spurious vibration from getting to the tonearm and sound like NOTHING. Anything it adds to "the sound" is distortion.

The job of the tonearm is to hold the cartridge solidly in the proper orientation, move to two directions only and absorb any energy coming from the cartridge to prevent it from reflecting. It should also not have a "sound."

The job of the cartridge is to translate the physical waveform on the record into an electrical waveform. It also should not have a "sound."

It is the record that "sounds." A record playing machine should not add or subtract anything to the sound that is on the record. The design of turntables, tonearms and cartridges should be evaluated with this in mind. A record player is a vibration measuring device. The cartridge has no way of knowing where the vibration is coming from. It will turn any vibration into an electrical signal. The environment is loaded with vibrational energy and the turntable has to isolate the other parts of the system from all of it. Mass will not do it. If a turntable does not have a proper isolation suspension then it should be placed on one. It is much cheaper if one is built into the turntable. The Dohmann Helix is probably the epitome of a suspended turntable. The classic is the AR XA followed by the Thorens TD 125 and the Linn LP12. SOTA was the first to hang a turntable from springs instead of sitting it on top of springs, a much more stable design. Basis, SME and Avid followed suit.  The RP 10 is a lot of turntable for the money. It is suspended on squishy rubber feet. It has a very stiff chassis and a great tonearm. Up from that price wise is the Sota Sapphire with a Kuzma 4 Point 9 then up the Sota line to the Cosmos. At this point we are already above the OP's budget but continuing onwards are the Avid Acutus and the SMEs. Next is Basis then the Dohmann Helix. Both Sota and Basis tables can be had with vacuum clamping. When a tonearm tracks over warps the groove velocity changes and causes pitch to waver which is painfully obvious and far exceeds the minimal wow and flutter most modern turntables have. Vacuum clamping is the best at flattening the record. Reflex clamping Like the SMEs, the Acutus, non vacuum Sotas and the Helix is second best. A record weight does little to nothing. Ring clamps are a PITA to use and an accident waiting to happen. Of the turntables I mentioned above only the Sotas use a magnetic thrust bearing which is an advantage in terms of noise and durability. It does exactly the same thing as Techdas's air bearing at a fraction of the complexity and cost. 

The VPI HW-40 does check off many boxes. Gimbal arm. Speed stability. Timeless looks. Massive platter. Flip up dust cover to keep that stylus safe. Multiple voltages. Unless the footprint is too excessive,  the HW-40 is a serious contender.

The only table I would consider (and I'm not) would be a Well Tempered.

I had a Pure Fidelity Encore

And my Lyra Delos picked up rf noise from the motor 

Tried several different arms same noise

Good luck Willy-T

Luxman PD-151 is an excellent choice 

coming in under your budget 

Has anyone tried Vertere brand TT and phono? 

SP10R new or SP10mK3 used (and dialed by JP Jones)

I use a Thorens TD-1601 with an Ortofon Cadenza Blue running through a Hegel V-10. To me this sounds fantastic. The arm lifts and the unit shuts down after the album side is done. The other feature that is/was important to me is the easily adjustable tonearm height, VTA. I can run any cartridge and keep the appropriate verticle tracking. I had a Rega 8 and it was an excellent TT but I hated shimming it when swapping cartridges. I sold it and purchased the 1601 and never looked back.

Another plus for the SME 6. Grab it while it’s on sale with this substantial price savings! 

Take a look at The Tien Audio TT3 or TT5

By considering Vintage TT's and as already suggested, the Technics SP 10 Mk ii or Mk iii. There is a lot to be had in term of performance for the outlay, and there is plenty of support at hand for this Brand and especially these two Models in both the US and Europe.

My own Mk ii is with a Custom Paint Coating to the Chassis costing £200.

Finished in the Blackest of Blacks with a Multiple Coating of Lacquers, with a Polished Finish. If visual appeal is important there is not much more to be desired if black is one's preference.

There is no shortage of Plinth Designs available for this model, a Web Search will reveal the works being carried out.

I feel a SP10 Mk ii fully overhauled, with a New Applied Coating to the Chassis, 'if desired'. Mounted in a Bespoke Plinth will be achievable for not too far from half your budget if donor model is prudently sourced. I can advise on this via email if interested in where to search out a donor.

A SP10 Mkii or Mkiii are a very sought after TT, in both the US and Europe with again in both the US and Europe, excellent servicing facilitation seen on offer from a variety of sources.  Having the Power Supply concern resolved is a minimum concern if changing from 110V to 230V 60Hz.      

Well looked after Models hold their Value and are Investments that are appreciating in Value and sell quickly when the need may arise. As the TT is to be a Keeper, the selling on is not really a short-term concern.   

I have been careful/prudent and have a substantial appreciation in the value, when compared to what my Refurbed and Modified Mk ii cost.

For the record the SP10 Mkii, in a Refurbed / Modified condition is the Model that finished my regular usage of Overhauled / Modified Idler Drives.

Idler Drives finished my regular usage of Belt Drives many many years past.  

Korf has their new arm on pre purchase.
I was leaning towards it, but a different came up secondhand… so more expensive (even used) but it is “end game” for me.

One preferred option (but not must-have) is universal voltage, as I may move the unit to Europe later.

I would not worry too much.
I have been running 110v equipment in Au for a couple of decades, and have always yearned to get rid of the transformer. And recently I did.

However a lot of people are running pricy power conditioners that among other things sometimes have isolation transformers. By running a 230v to 110v transformer my system seemed to be pretty immune to a lot of power supply issues.

I know that on the Sota they have an external supply… And maybe others do as well.
The legacy Luxman Micro-Seiki etc Japanese tables need a 100v… so they need yet a different transformer.

My current vintage turntable (Project Perspective) is 22 years old, and while I don’t know how to compare to something really amazing, I can say that my setup is lacking detail and bass. The tonearm is terrible to keep aligned.

Maybe it only needs an arm?
Are the rumble specs on it?

Perhaps an arm with more mass is needed, or maybe a high compliance cart would suit it?

The arm+cart is one beastly combo, but the table is generally separate and not part of the bass. Maybe some suspended tables affect the bass…??

Personally I would be optimising the arm before the table, but I am totally guessing at your table.

At the lower end of your price range I really like the Well Tempered Versalex.

Simply put…buy what you like the looks of and make sure it is absolutely isolated from vibration. If you’re on anything other than a concrete floor consider a solid wall mounted shelf…perfectly level.

If you want to agonize over the selection process, save that for the cartridge and your phono cable…then phono pre. I’m very fond of my Hana ML on the 10” JMW unipivot arm.

Should you select VPI, when properly isolated I doubt you will hear any difference between the Scout/Prime/Signature (all with 20 lb platter). Also, not sure why some fret the unipivot arm. A simple and elegant design that is a joy to live with.

I’m not sure about an endgame table but my SOTA Star Sapphire with vacuum hold down and an SME V arm is probably my last table. Once setup it’s rock solid, quiet and free from footfalls and extraneous noise. Add the SME arm which also is easy to setup and it’s set it and forget, just excellent sound that still rivals more expensive tables of today. SOTA has redone tables with all the upgrades on there website, take a look. I do also have a VPI Aries 2 table with an SME 309 arm which is a fine sounding unit, maybe not as good as the SOTA but still an awesome table. Plenty of VPI’s on the used marked too so choices are plentiful.

I would also recommend the VPI HW-40. I have had mine for almost a year. It was a game changer for me. I immediately could tell that it was something special. Mine was new but I got a pretty good discount on it at the time. I have the Ortofon Cadenza Black installed. 

I encourage at least two tonearms, one with a removable headshell.

And then a SUT with at least two selectable inputs, PASS for MM, and optional settings for MC cartridges, thus only 1 phono input needed for any tonearm.

Best Stereo on main arm, Mono ready to go on second arm. Second arm removable headshell for quick change to other cartridges, yours or a friends. 

Second arm, easy height adjustment for VTA, and if cartridges of various heights are involved.

...........................................

I've seen some two arm tables all; assembled, I'll post some later when I have more time if you are interested in the idea.

I personally helped a friend mount two Micro-Seiki Arms on this wonderful Luxman PD444

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We know what we have best. Me, personally, I couldn't be happier with mine. Importantly, I have the skills and tools to modify, mount tonearms which makes a big difference is a solution like mine.

I put my vintage TT together with help here. Bit by Bit, Plinth and Spinner phase 1. 3  tonearms selected separately, also with advice here.

All in, except cartridges, $5,000.

I started with two arms, and later squeezed a compact 3rd arm on, so I have Long Arm with MC, any other, and Mono.

Mine is Vintage JVC Victor TT81 DD Quartz Lock Spinner in a JVC Victor Two Armboard Plinth CL-P2, seen here

https://www.audiogon.com/systems/9511?_gl=1*bdv68k*_ga*NjQzNzE3MDA1LjE2NjQyODIxNDk.*_ga_SR0PMVVEN1*MTY3MTg5MDUwNi4yMDAuMS4xNjcxODkwODkwLjYwLjAuMA..

How is a Clearaudio table not on your list? I scored a Clearaudio Ovation with Magnify tonearm preowned for $7k. Sounds absolutely incredible and looks amazing too!

This Micro-Seiki is made to mount 1,2,3 arms.

Steve Leung at VAS is reading one now, for a client? or to sell? I didn’t ask him when I saw it there on Wed.. He could give advice about that model in any case.

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simple search

https://www.google.com/search?q=turntable+two+arms&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwiPrImPwZL8AhVogBUDHYSfCKYQ2-cCegQIABAA&oq=turntable+two+arms&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQDFAAWABgAGgAcAB4AIABAIgBAJIBAJgBAKoBC2d3cy13aXotaW1n&sclient=img&ei=fRKnY8_5GeiA1sgPhL-isAo&bih=817&biw=1630&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS1025US1025

I love my VPI, and the fact you can easily upgrade it make it a clear winner in my books. Consider that as a major plus in your decision. My last upgrade was a Walker speed controller, and a Koetsu Rosewood Signature which really stepped up performance. Good luck!