End Game Turntable suggestions

Thanks everyone for the suggestions so far and please keep it coming. @vinylvalet i will definitely add SME to the list, As for Rega,.....i am sure they sound good but i have this bias for mass that i will need to overcome. 

@dodgealum I will check out Pure Fidelity, was unaware of the brand.

@tablejockey VPI HW-40 is also 110-240v, which is a huge plus, not very common among US makers from what i see. If i can stretch the budget it really does check every box in my list. Also I heard it at a show last year, but of course how they sound on 200+K systems is a different matter...

@rauliruegas thanks for taking the time to share your detailed thoughts.

On the Zesto phonostage -  must admit I don't fully grasp your point. I may like how it sounds, but that maybe because I don't know what to compare it with. I upgraded from a Jolida JD9 to this Andros II unit as it pairs well with the Zesto Let pre, and its definitely an upgrade, but keen to understand the shortcomings better.

"I own a VPI HW40 and am very happy with it.  I have also listened extensively to a Rega 10 and would be quite happy to listen to either one forever."

@billstevenson that is really interesting. I will put P10 on my list, i just like the timeless look of the HW40 and its room presence. If the DD motor ever goes bad, any idea if there will be a problem in repairing? Thanks

And I will add - choosing a turntable is perhaps going to be the hardest purchase decision i have ever made :):) way too many amazing choices....what a privilege to be living in these times....

@mijostyn THANK YOU that was an amazing response and a lot to think about. Having now looked at the Basis Signature 2500 with vacuum, i am going to have sleepless nights....any idea what they fetch in used market? Thanks

This is turning out to be a great discussion, thanks everyone who has contributed.

@paulgardner thanks for the suggestion - I saw the ovation at Expona in action and its stunning, but i thought it was outside my budget. If i recall correctly the were showing them with Sonus Faber speakers; i will scan used market.

@re-lar-kvothe I really like the design and features of the 1601 but really curious if there is anything lacking sound-wise- I just cant find a place to audition it. I have a vintage Kyocera PL-701 semiautomatic with auto lift, what a convenience.

The 1601 is below my budget (even with a great cart), and i am curious what i will miss compared to lets say a used HW-40 if i can get it for abt 10K. Any thoughts welcome. As i raised in my original post, I am surely not chasing the last 5%.

Lastly, @fbgbill thanks for your HW-40 thoughts. Many people raise concerns abt potential future problems if motor goes bad - any idea if VPI stocks these motors? Thanks

@glennewdick thank you for your recommendation of acoustic-solid. Everything I have read so far seems to indicate this is a quality manufacturer with real world prices. I actually wrote their NA rep in Ontario earlier today to get more info. Someone asked me earlier my visual preference, I think acoustic-solid....i am smitten. Just look at this thing:

As of December 27th here is a summary of this threads. Apologies for many omissions here, as there are so very many great suggestions. Overall I can break down recommendations across 4 categories and my take on each so far.

1. New TTs roughly in the 5-8K range (table + arm): Rega RP10, Technics SL-1200, several VPIs, Acoustic-Solid(several choices), Dr Feikert, SME Model 6, SOTA, Thorens TD-1601, Nottingham Aanlogue. Based on my needs / preferences, shortlist in this category are Acoustic-Solid, Thorens TD-1601, I am also keeping Origin Live Sovereign, which is not very well known in US, but seems like an incredible table and arm combo. I know Rega is hugely recommended, but i consider this purchase the centerpiece of my system and would go for a high mass design with room presence.
2. Used TTs in budget - some excellent recommendations from Basis (debut), SOTA, SME. In this category I am particularly drawn to Basis.  The SOTA looks kind of don’t work for me unfortunately.
3. Vintage TTs - Excellent recommendations around the obvious - Garrard, Thorens TD 124, Technics SP 10 variations, and I understand with the right amount of effort a well curated unit can easily surpass uber high end modern tables. While incredibly appealing, I am not sure I can go that route given the advanced level of knowledge and effort required. Practically speaking, I am willing to compromise the last mile quality and also willing to pay a bit more for a set it and forget it solution - and enjoy the limited time i have enjoying the music. If my understanding is wrong, anyone is welcome to please correct me. If there was a turnkey solution provider - who sources the base unit, does all the upgrades and sells as a final product, that can be a feasible alternative. I believe we are fortunate consumers with so many incredible choices today that one can easily achieve superb results with a lot less effort / customization.
4. Aspirational - these are very desirable tables a bit outside my budget (used), I am looking for more suggestions to see if stretching upwards to about 10-12K will yield material sonic benefits. VPI HW40 has strong recommendations and I really like DD tables for their simplicity and accuracy. Also in the category are several Acoustic-Solid Models, SME models, Basis Signature 2500 with vacuum. Also Clearaudio Innovation, absolutely stunning table. 

I am fortunate that I will have a very solid room environment with solid stone floors and massive stone walls, with near zero vibrations. And very good acoustics as well as reasonably good associated equipment. Hence I will perhaps be able to get away with a reasonably stable table and spend the money on a superlative cartridge (or two)

The range of choices is incredible and also overwhelming. Hence my broad decision approach will be along following core principles:

1. Simplicity and Convenience:  a table that doesn’t require constant attention, endless upgrade, tweaking and TLC. I would much rather spend money and time researching , buying and listening to records. 
2. Beauty: Our music systems are our joy and pride. They are a statement of our taste and style. I would choose a table that is visually appealing, and a joy to behold and operate. Hence high mass, and reasonable room presence (not bling like Triangle Art) is important
3. Cost - lastly - I would keep the budget in check. It is easy to get carried away, I am not convinced that spending more and more gets better results. I need to save money for my digital chain (Mola Mola Tambaqui and Jays Audio CDT3 Mk III in pipe) and new speakers. As much as I love vinyl, I really enjoy Roon’s convenience, as well as the pleasure of using CDs that I have collected for decades. Hell, I enjoy my Nakamichi LX-5 so very much. 

This is where I am as of now. Please challenge, counter and critique my thoughts, that’s what makes this community so great! I will be sure to keep everyone informed where I land in this journey, but lets keep the discussion going!!

Happy holidays all!

Thanks to everyone so far for such an informative conversation. I think this will be useful to a lot of others in my situation. I will soon do a summary post on ffindings so far to make it easy for a new reader of the thread.

@ghdprentice very valid question. TBH I could stretch the budget to 10K or thereabout if there would be a material benefit. What would be your suggestions? As for your point on associated equipment - yes, I have a material upgrade coming up on speakers, in the ~30K range, but that will be whole another adventure (on my list are ATC SCM 100ASLT, Magico S5 Mk II, potentially Legacy Aries II). In short, I need to choose a table keeping in mind future upgrades....

@mdalton, much appreciated thanks. I did not know about these options. I am now looking at various turnkey vintage choices in the market, also including Thorens TD 125mk II by Art of Sound from Germany...

@rauliruegas, thats actually not true but I can understand your perspective. A high level of performance is absolutely a given, but is not the "only" criterion for me in any purchase, be it a car, a road bike or furniture. Its just like food, where its not just about taste, its also about the presentation and much more. We are all fortunate to have ample choices of table with stunning visual appeal coupled with top notch performance, reliable service and long track record - many suggested in this thread. 

Lastly, I appreciate good design and art - its for me to enjoy every day, not to impress others. 

@kahlenz actually i am most likely NOT getting a Rega RP10. I am inclined toward a high mass design. Also I accept the Technics SL1200G is one of the best at price class. But my wife hates the looks of it and that is a big factor....and I find it hideous too.

Also forgot to mention - Mark Baker also confirmed that all current models of Origin Live tables are multi-voltage (will work in EU / US / Asia). Important consideration for me although I realize it may be irrelevant to many.

@drawding @cd318 thanks for bringing up Origin Live. As you can see from my original post, OL Sovereign was already on my shortlist, but its not well known in US and they are rarely found in used market. I actually exchanged notes with Mark Baker earlier this year and he seemed to recommend the OL Resolution table (with best toneram i could afford), and said Sovereign is mostly for the looks and very marginal performance upgrade.

If I can generalize my findings, two things emerge:

a. there are great small manufacturers who are not very well known, but seem to offer excellent quality at lower premiums. They have also existed for decades, they are not fly by night operators. This class includes Origin Live, Acoustic Solid, S.A.M just to name a few. I am sure folks here can name half a dozen more

b. a combo of a mid priced table+arm (say 5-6K) and a high quality cartridge (say 3-4K) perhaps is a better choice in my situation. I also think (thanks to many members's recommendation here) having two tonearm setup (or at least an upgrade path) will be useful so i can have one high end and one mid-end catridge. It will also be more fun.

@mijostyn thanks for the good advice, I can see how the inferior cartridge will just gather dust. I don't play 78's. Much appreciated.

@pindac thanks for pointing me to the OL Sovereign, I need to check about service issues that seem to have been talked about here. But the Sovereign/Illustrious combo is appealing.

@dhcod thanks for suggesting STST, the second one here; the technology appears quite novel. Do you mean STST Motus II DQ, or the original Motus? Also can you share your personal experience, as well as what cartridge you are using? This is going to be in my shortlist as its DD, reviews are strong, offers customization options, and has really great classic look. Thanks again.

Thanks again to everyone for your contributions. For the benefit of others in similar situation I wanted to share my shortlist - it has changed from my initial position thanks to all the advice and suggestions, and shows the value of this forum.

In deciding the shortlist i wanted to stay true to the three principles (a) simplicity (b) staying close to budget and (c) visual appeal (not bling, as some may have interpreted).

Despite very tempting restored vintage options (quality, VFM, nostalgia, romance etc), I decided to go with contemporary. I think there are excellent options in the new/used current models market, albeit at a premium, with set it and forget it possibility. I don't to tweak and experiment, i just want to enjoy music on a reasonably great setup.

For now here are the final four in no particular order, i will try to audition what i can:

1. Rega P10 (i was really against it in the beginning) $6400

2. Dr Feikert Volare with Origin Live arm - $4000, allowing for a $2K+ cartridge

3. Thorens TD 1601 - $4000, available for less on preowned market. Leaves a lot of room for a very good cartridge, and i like the semi automatic function

4. Acoustic Solid Black Wood MPX - $5000, high mass classic design

The options I cannot currently reach owing to budget limitations (but would otherwise be my top choices)

1. VPI HW 40 DD

2. STST Motus II DQ (direct drive with semiautomatic feature)

3. Technics SP10

4. SME

Any thoughts on this welcome. Thanks all

@mijostyn in your view it makes sense to pair a 4K TT (Thorens 1601) with a 5K cartridge? Many pundits seem to say that if the table isn't super high end, you cant benefit from this level of cart. Very curious, I am coming from an Ortofon Bronze MM so not familiar with super highend in the cart space....

Thanks a lot. Lyra Kleos looks closer to possibility budget-wise. Interesting read on Lyra series.

@tablejockey thanks for the AT recommendation. I just missed a like-new P10 right here in NJ on the mart, which was listed for 5K. That said, i do really value the automatic lift in Thorens - knowing myself, it will definitely elongate the life of the cartridge. I just feel saving nearly $2500 (new vs new or used vs used) will allow for a really good cartridge, overall a better combo....

@ghdprentice thanks for your post, everything you have said so far has been very thoughtful.

Regarding you first and second comments (min budget of abt 10K to match my remaining components "level", and "speakers first" principle: I can share my position. Ultimately my decisions are dictated by currently available budget, and that "might" mean a winding road to an optimal state. Keeping this in mind:

a. I decided to stay below 10K for table+arm+cartridge

c. I hear your point about first buying speakers. The speaker upgrade is going to be a very significant outlay, which simply has to wait until retirement. But i can't wait till then to see how far i can get with analog. Also, after 21 years, not a day passes that I do not admire my current speakers for what they can do (NHT 3.3s). This is why everything else in my system has been upgraded multiple times, but the speakers have been a constant. Eventually when I buy new speakers (owing to age, asthetics and the desire for new), I may have to re-jig some of my components somewhat, maybe or maybe not.

Back to the turntable - I did a lot of research and got lots of advice from this forum. In the end I am buying a Thorens TD-1601, with a high end cart (have not decided between Lyra Kleos and Soundsmith xxxx). That will come to about 8K. The new Thorens has the time tested principles, similar in design to the Linn, and from what I undertsand, will stand up well to a high end cartridge. I like the simplicity, timeless aesthetics, the auto arm lift and the impeccable build quality. I really did not want to deal with a complex, spherical/cylindrical/industrial 100lb behemoth offering multiple arm options, and requiring a giant stand. And at least for now, I wanted a set it and forget it setup so i could use my limited time to listen, not tinker. That may change in retirement!

Most reviewers suggest  it outperforms the 160/125 MkII, and is similar to Linn, so i feel its worth trying out - if it doesnt meet expectation, it will be a small loss to take, and go in a different direction.

If budget was not a concern, staying true to the principles above, I would have gone for VPI HW-40 DD or STST Domus DQ II - but with cartridge those will just bust bu budget. I really feel Acoustic Solid MPX could be a good choice, but again it throws off my current budget....

Thanks all once again for all the suggestions and advice. If anyone has a view on $4K range cartridges - particularly Soundsmith because of low-cost rebuild - will appreciate any suggestions.

Fellow A'goners, three months have passed and I wanted to share a quick update on the outcomes of my analog system. I ended up buying a Lyra Kleos to go with the Thorens TD 1601. I stayed with my existing phono pre (Zesto Andros II). Rest of the system remains unchanged.

Until now i believed analog was good; but this upgrade has been incredible - it simply sounds much better than my digital front end (Lumin T2). I am just at a loss as to what more i can gain from spending thousands more on a TT. I was willing to spend more - several members here gave me the confidence to pair a 4K cart with a 4K table and expect great outcomes - they were right, the nest result for me has been outstanding. 

Hopefully this is useful to others in the same boat. I am listening to Patricia Barber as I type this, and its just sublime....