End Game Turntable suggestions

Kudos!

Congratulations. Sounds like you made a great upgrade. Pooh, of course now you must now upgrade your streaming to match your vinyl system. 
 

I am happily at parody between the two… thinking of an upgrade to my turntable. 

Fantastic. Excellent choices on table and cart.  Enjoy!

Well done. Glad it worked out. My endgame has been a tricked out rebuilt Garrard 401. 

Fellow A'goners, three months have passed and I wanted to share a quick update on the outcomes of my analog system. I ended up buying a Lyra Kleos to go with the Thorens TD 1601. I stayed with my existing phono pre (Zesto Andros II). Rest of the system remains unchanged.

Until now i believed analog was good; but this upgrade has been incredible - it simply sounds much better than my digital front end (Lumin T2). I am just at a loss as to what more i can gain from spending thousands more on a TT. I was willing to spend more - several members here gave me the confidence to pair a 4K cart with a 4K table and expect great outcomes - they were right, the nest result for me has been outstanding. 

Hopefully this is useful to others in the same boat. I am listening to Patricia Barber as I type this, and its just sublime....

@ghdprentice thanks for your post, everything you have said so far has been very thoughtful.

Regarding you first and second comments (min budget of abt 10K to match my remaining components "level", and "speakers first" principle: I can share my position. Ultimately my decisions are dictated by currently available budget, and that "might" mean a winding road to an optimal state. Keeping this in mind:

a. I decided to stay below 10K for table+arm+cartridge

c. I hear your point about first buying speakers. The speaker upgrade is going to be a very significant outlay, which simply has to wait until retirement. But i can't wait till then to see how far i can get with analog. Also, after 21 years, not a day passes that I do not admire my current speakers for what they can do (NHT 3.3s). This is why everything else in my system has been upgraded multiple times, but the speakers have been a constant. Eventually when I buy new speakers (owing to age, asthetics and the desire for new), I may have to re-jig some of my components somewhat, maybe or maybe not.

Back to the turntable - I did a lot of research and got lots of advice from this forum. In the end I am buying a Thorens TD-1601, with a high end cart (have not decided between Lyra Kleos and Soundsmith xxxx). That will come to about 8K. The new Thorens has the time tested principles, similar in design to the Linn, and from what I undertsand, will stand up well to a high end cartridge. I like the simplicity, timeless aesthetics, the auto arm lift and the impeccable build quality. I really did not want to deal with a complex, spherical/cylindrical/industrial 100lb behemoth offering multiple arm options, and requiring a giant stand. And at least for now, I wanted a set it and forget it setup so i could use my limited time to listen, not tinker. That may change in retirement!

Most reviewers suggest  it outperforms the 160/125 MkII, and is similar to Linn, so i feel its worth trying out - if it doesnt meet expectation, it will be a small loss to take, and go in a different direction.

If budget was not a concern, staying true to the principles above, I would have gone for VPI HW-40 DD or STST Domus DQ II - but with cartridge those will just bust bu budget. I really feel Acoustic Solid MPX could be a good choice, but again it throws off my current budget....

Thanks all once again for all the suggestions and advice. If anyone has a view on $4K range cartridges - particularly Soundsmith because of low-cost rebuild - will appreciate any suggestions.

@willy-t 👍 +1

OP,

I look forward to hearing your decision.

I commented earlier, but not on what I did. I had a VPI that I loved for over 20 years.

I retired, and realized I had an opportunity to upgrade… as I was upgrading the rest of my system. I did the kind of survey you are. While I looked and compared contemporary turntables and higher end VPIs. I got really interested in Linn… for its simplicity, history and contemporary performance. The more I read and researched the more I realized that contemporary performance was available with a really attractive, elegant, small footprint turntable with a wonderful history and upgradabilty.

I have really enjoyed it. I enjoyed its performance so much, I was drawn to upgrade sub-component after sub-component. While I started at the mid-level turntable… I upgraded it to very close to the top level. It has been a constant source of enjoyment over the last three years.

This is not a pitch for Linn. But for the enjoyment of reaching for your dreams. For experiencing really top level performance in something you really love. It doesn’t happen often. Enjoy.

+ 1 on TW Acustic. I have a Raven AC for more than 15 years now.
First : the sound fits my tastes, second : it is built like a tank, third you can install up to 4 tonearm, fourth : you can upgrade the initial model to put it close to the Black Night. 
Durind these years I replaced the one motor with the 3 motors in a round shape, replaced also the original PSU with the battery one, and lastly replaced the platter with the 20kg « black night ». Each of these changes were useful and put the table up a notch or 2. 
Now I think the TT is hard to beat. 

+1 

I have a Feickert Volare, a SOTA Star III (vintage) as well as a TW Acustic Raven.

All are better than any Rega IMO.

Have no experience with Acoustic Solid.

The TW is on another level above the others I own, as it should be as it costs 2X to 4X as much.  They are hard to find on the used market, especially within the stated price range.

The Volare has the smallest footprint of my tables (if that is important) but is very well built and finished.  At less than $5K (without cartridge) paired with my Audiomods Series 6 arm, it sounds great.

Biggest problem for you is hearing, seeing and touching all your contenders.  Depending on where you live, there may be no local dealer.

Hope this helps.

Good luck!

@musicmatters1206 I’m late to the game but looking at your shortlist, those are all quite different tables. I wonder if settling on the type first, then putting together a shortlist of tables of the same type, wouldn’t be a better way to go?

I didn’t check all the posts but has anyone brought up TW Acustic’s former entry-level model, the Raven One? I’ve had one for about five years, paired with a Graham Phantom arm and Kiseki Purple Heart. In the used market, you could easily put together an excellent table for under $8K. TW Acustic’s North American distributor, Jeff Catalano at High Water Sound, is great to deal with, which is an added bonus. He happily has answered questions I’ve had even though I bought a used table, not a new one. The Raven One is a very nice turntable.

As STST is less well known in the American market, it bears mentioning that the Motus tables are a very mature product. Stefan has been honing this design for many years...

( disclosure: Solypsa represents STST )

Acoustic Signature Tornado Neo turntable comes with a 15 year warranty. The best in the business!

End-game. What does it mean? It is different for every individual. With wine, there is a saying that "all roads lead to Burgundy". With audio, there is no such consensus or even a similarly evocative saying, something that raises a knowing smile among the cognoscenti. I have my own idea as to what an end-game turntable, arm and cartridge combination is but there are at least 50 and likely more legitimate turntable and arm combinations alone, forgetting the cartridge choice. The thing that has to put a smile on any vinyl-fan's face is how healthy the turntable market is presently. 

FWlittleIW, the Thorens TD124 and Garrard 301 with your choice of a Reed arm are my idea of an "end game" table. As durable as cockroaches, as enduring as Sophia Loren. 

I still think you will end up with an RP-10.  I have not heard the Aphelian 3, but the P-10 with the Apheta 3 is impressive (and hits your budget with no room to spare).

" I just missed a like-new P10 right here in NJ on the mart, which was listed for 5K."

Ouch! I hate seeing those kinds of deals AFTER the fact. 

I get it- auto lift of the Thorens. Lyra or ART 20=nice setup. 

@tablejockey thanks for the AT recommendation. I just missed a like-new P10 right here in NJ on the mart, which was listed for 5K. That said, i do really value the automatic lift in Thorens - knowing myself, it will definitely elongate the life of the cartridge. I just feel saving nearly $2500 (new vs new or used vs used) will allow for a really good cartridge, overall a better combo....

Thanks a lot. Lyra Kleos looks closer to possibility budget-wise. Interesting read on Lyra series.

@musicmatters1206 , It all depends on the design of the turntable. Forget about price. There are many super expensive tables that are not designed as well as the Thorens  or the RP10 for that matter. It is really not that expensive to make a decent turntable or tonearm. Once these meet a certain level of performance it is all about the cartridge. Over the past year I have studied many cartridges under high magnification. It became obvious that the more expensive cartridges have better styluses and are constructed more carefully. I have absolutely no doubt that you are better off putting the money in the cartridge. The Ortofon Windfeld Ti or the Lyra Kleos will handily outperform a Hana whatever in either turntable.

(Thorens 1601) with a 5K cartridge? Many pundits seem to say that if the table isn't super high end, you cant benefit from this level of cart."

Other than the Rega in you final four lineup, consider the Audio Technica ART line for LOMC. Plenty of praise in reviews/forums. Maybe a "Best" in performance/price.

ART Series - Line Series - Cartridges | Audio-Technica

If you go Rega P10 use Apheta/Aphelion MC to keep with the Rega philosophy of minimal fuss with setup/adjustment.

You'll likely be satisfied with any of your choices. I'd probably go with the no fuss P10 and call it a day. 

Happy listening with your final pick. Always fun to have a new addition to the setup.

@mijostyn in your view it makes sense to pair a 4K TT (Thorens 1601) with a 5K cartridge? Many pundits seem to say that if the table isn't super high end, you cant benefit from this level of cart. Very curious, I am coming from an Ortofon Bronze MM so not familiar with super highend in the cart space....

I think the Thorens or the Rega with the best cartridge you can afford is the way to go. Saving $2400 on the Thorens adds that much to the cartridge kitty. If you can get into something like the Ortofon Windfeld Ti or the Lyra Kleos you would be living high off the hog. 

As for your dream Turntable the suspended Motus or SME are handily better than the others. The Sota Cosmos Vacuum outperforms all of them. It has a magnetic thrust bearing, a state of the art drive system, a proper suspension, vacuum clamping and a really great dust cover that can and should be used during play. If you want fancy looking the Basis Inspiration is the way to go. It will cost you three times as much as the Sota for very similar performance. David Fletcher and AJ Conte were big friends. They were both engineers who loved audio. 

Thanks again to everyone for your contributions. For the benefit of others in similar situation I wanted to share my shortlist - it has changed from my initial position thanks to all the advice and suggestions, and shows the value of this forum.

In deciding the shortlist i wanted to stay true to the three principles (a) simplicity (b) staying close to budget and (c) visual appeal (not bling, as some may have interpreted).

Despite very tempting restored vintage options (quality, VFM, nostalgia, romance etc), I decided to go with contemporary. I think there are excellent options in the new/used current models market, albeit at a premium, with set it and forget it possibility. I don't to tweak and experiment, i just want to enjoy music on a reasonably great setup.

For now here are the final four in no particular order, i will try to audition what i can:

1. Rega P10 (i was really against it in the beginning) $6400

2. Dr Feikert Volare with Origin Live arm - $4000, allowing for a $2K+ cartridge

3. Thorens TD 1601 - $4000, available for less on preowned market. Leaves a lot of room for a very good cartridge, and i like the semi automatic function

4. Acoustic Solid Black Wood MPX - $5000, high mass classic design

The options I cannot currently reach owing to budget limitations (but would otherwise be my top choices)

1. VPI HW 40 DD

2. STST Motus II DQ (direct drive with semiautomatic feature)

3. Technics SP10

4. SME

Any thoughts on this welcome. Thanks all

The one that was given to me the most when I asked this question was the SOTA Sapphire VI.  I went that route based on an overwhelming about of recommendations and the fact they were local to me.   But. have a beautiful end game turntable now.  

I do not follow the forum member 'Shakti' on Whatsbestforum, but I have followed their reported on experiences and communicated directly about these on more than a few occasions over the past years through other points of contact.

Where I have directly experienced some of the experiences reported on, I am happy state the a 'Shakti' report is with a very accurate commentary and description.

There are very very few that have experiences under their belt as Shakti has and the communication with Industry Leaders in Vinyl Replay as he has.

Shakti is now in possession of a Motus from November 2022 and the reports to be found on the performance and comparative descriptions are IMO, worthy of taking on board.     

My info is second hand as I know someone who has a Motus II DQ and he's a super high end guy and could afford a way more expensive table if he wanted. He's used heavy arms with SPUs and a Schröder arm as well. If you go to whatsbestforum.com and search STST you see posts/photos from a lot of happy owners and you can ask questions!

@dhcod thanks for suggesting STST, the second one here; the technology appears quite novel. Do you mean STST Motus II DQ, or the original Motus? Also can you share your personal experience, as well as what cartridge you are using? This is going to be in my shortlist as its DD, reviews are strong, offers customization options, and has really great classic look. Thanks again.

@musicmatters1206 The Thread has been about your inquiry for suggestions to acquire an End Game TT.

In response to this, there are Options made known in relation to your budget, and around TT's proposed on your early days Shortlist.

The Thread has also gone a little of the usual path as there has been the suggestion of a Used or New Model, with the used option extending to the Vintage TT as a option.

What matters in a choice to be made is how the aesthetic stimulates and is welcomed into the home as a visualised item. 

'Beauty is in the eye of the beholder' so with this in mind, your eyes, your attraction to beauty. You've already revealed a Magpie Tendency and get drawn to a Shiny Blingy Item.  

What has also been made known is how a certain material or design aspect can leave a very very good impression when experienced. To the point that any previous Materials or Design are no longer wanted to be returned to.

As for materials used there is an aesthetic to be worked around and this might not be wanted to be overcome.

As for the Design @terry9 has made it known that a Bearing Design now in use, has proven to them that it is functioning in a manner that makes it much more attractive to have than older used designs.

There is a journey to discover a TT that is to ones satisfaction, I myself am on this Journey, I have my End Game TT, and am using it as a Model to bring it to a design that will be quite a tool for a LP Replay.

Servicing, Addressing Speed Control, Mounting of the TT ( ongoing ), Bearing Design ( Ongoing ), Platter Design ( Ongoing ).

Each of the Ongoing Investigations are able to take the TT to another level of performance.

With that in mind, and the knowledge that you have significantly expended on your Vinyl Collection. A similar curiosity and enthusiasm may develop for the Mechanical and Electrical Interfaces within yourself, where there becomes a interest in discovering where there are options available to eek out the betterment of the Set Up.

Some of this can be addressed prior to making a purchase, i.e, Speed Stability Platter Material, Bearing Design, Structural Materials.

There is no rush to make a Purchase, and having taken time to have studied and develop an improved knowledge of what makes a Mechanical and Electrical Device function as a Standout Performer is a worthwhile undertaking, especially one that will have a sizeable cost and will have a significance of importance attached to it as a Tool to be used.   

At 8k you can get an STST Motus table. Kills an Avenger. Kills most tables until you start spending double. 

Or rebuilt Garrard 301/401. If you're talking endgame, these are better long term choices.

@musicmatters1206
If you like the look of the VPI Avenger, I purchased one used with rim drive and 2 VPI arms for $8.0k in 2019, so you may be able to find and afford.

VPI seems to be a safe high value high mass turntable company.  Their turntables are commonly used at audio shows, the company has a long track record in reliability and good service, and the company will likely be in business for a few decades as the company was taken over by the son Matt who has started a young family (financially handcuffed?).  

Once you have experienced frictionless bearings in all dimensions, everything else sounds like a bad compromise. Air is the easiest way to do this, but you can do mag lev for thrust and air for lateral. It works just as well IME.

Interesting the air cushion bearing being referred to.

During the past 18 Months I have shared a few emails with an individual about works being undertaken on a Vintage TT, to improve on the OEM Performance.

Today at this end and their end similar things have evolved for the design.

A Bearing design being produced is to be a complete rethink of the original, and a step quite different to some of the email exchanges.

The design is now based on a Air Film as a separator at the interfaces between parts on the Bearing Housing.

I believe this new direction is now in practice, as my own and this individuals thoughts has been that a Hydrodynamic Lubrication is a challenge and will be difficult to maintain.

This individual also makes there own platters for the TT model, as an addition to this there is also to be a Mag Suspension produced in conjunction with the New Bearing Design.

Densified Wood is now adopted by this individual and they are giving it a High Appraisal as a Plinth material in relation to other materials used for a Plinth with recognised and valued damping properties.

As for a Pz plinth, it depends where the vibration happens. I use an air thrust bushing, that's an air cushion in all 3 dimensions, so my platter bearing noise is literally nil. So I don't need Pz for a platter board. Instead, I need rigidity and speed of sound to connect the bushing to the tonearm.

But my motor does produce vibration, so I have a heavy Pz slab to anchor the motor, and then isolation to isolate that from the main board, also Pz, which supports everything. This is unlike some who don't bother to engineer the interface between motor and platter - but ignoring the problem doesn't make it go away.

Anyhow, Pz for motor board and Pz for the main board connecting the motor and platter boards. Works for me. YMMV

I own both a VPI 19-4 for 78s and a VPI TNT VI w/modified SME IV arm.   I would recommend a VPI turntable; however, the TNT has awful footers (now resting on a Townshend Seismic Sink-maybe a Townshend platform in the future).  Make certain that the VPI you buy has either good anti-vibration footers or be prepared to spend a little more for vibration isolation (like the reasonably priced Townshend platform). 

Several friends own the Scout+ and Aries+ using Dynavector cartridges and get great sound.  They also state that the 20X2 H is the best all-rounder because it plays all LPs well.  One has the latest karat D and another the XX2.  Neither are all rounders like the 20X2.  I decided not to spend $3-4K on a replacement for my Benz Ruby3 and purchased the Dynavector 20X2 L (better highs/resolution).  Wow, a bargain and fantastic into a standard 100 ohm loading.  It works into my EAR 864, EAR 324 and as stepped up into my Allesso SUT.  That's my recommendation (I've gone hi-end with those components at a low cost-the EAR 864 has great NOS tubes, Stillpoint UltraSS footers and a Synergistic Research blue fuse with superb cabling-all necessary to elevate the pre-amp to high end status).  

@pindac thanks for pointing me to the OL Sovereign, I need to check about service issues that seem to have been talked about here. But the Sovereign/Illustrious combo is appealing.

@mijostyn thanks for the good advice, I can see how the inferior cartridge will just gather dust. I don't play 78's. Much appreciated.

Stick with the BEST. The Thorens TD 1601 is my End Game TT. I'm 72, it's the only way to play.

@mijostyn Your description of a Densified Wood and in your case the reference to Panzerholz is quite limited in description and does not demonstrate where it separates as a Production Method to a Typical Reference to a Plywood. 

The Process used to produce a Phenolic Resin Densified Wood is using extreme compression multiple layer of a Veneer. The Veneers are to receive a specified  volume @ g/m2 of Phenolic Resin between each layer of Veneer in the Ply Assembly.

This is then compressed as an assembly to reduce the original thickness by 50%, a 1.4 mm Veneer will compress to approx' 0.7mm. 

The entire assembly is then Vacuum Treated (removes all air pockets from imperfections and the Woods Cell Structure, which will be filled with the flow of the Phenolic Resin).

There is also a process to administer a Heat Treatment.

Densified Woods are now with a Patent in place for more than 100 Years and the Production Technology and extended use of application for the product due to this has been an evolving R&D.

The Dynawood Brand for Densified Wood is one that has a selection of Colours as the Option, but this suits a particular industry, such as Knife Handles.

The statement made about the use of Aluminium and P'holz for the same role and having same impact is pure conjecture, if one took the time to review the Measurements as a result of Damping and Frequency response they could not so flippantly make such a statement. 

There are obvious differences between the effect the two materials will have to be anticipated as occurring, there is data to explain differences when discovered.   

The Link is a portal that is found from the most basic of Web Searches.

Another case in relation to your remarks of the 'Old Guard' getting it quite wrong in relation to what is required for modern military manoeuvres.

I heard a Kuzma Stabi S with the 4 points and it’s is a great combo. And you have a keeper tonearm in case you want to upgrade the tt in the future. 
Also I would look at the EAT turntables as they seem to be very well built. They benefit of the Pro-Ject expertise and factory facilities. Pro-Ject’ s boss is Jozefina Lichtenneger’s husband. 
 

@pindac, it is another lesson that mass alone does not work. Certain materials are more prone to ringing, some are intrinsically better damped. Examples of the later are aluminum and most wood over a certain thickness. Panzerholtz is resin infused plywood. The layers have been dyed for aesthetic reasons. It makes great plinths and could even be used as a sub chassis in a suspended design. My turntable used a 1" thick aluminum sub chassis. I doubt it would sound any different if it were made out of panzerholtz.

Origin designs are fine. Unfortunately, the company has a reputation for bad service. It has come up on this site several times. 

@musicmatters1206 , No, it will not be fun. You will wind up listening to the one you like best and the other will just take up space and money. Put that money into a better turntable and cartridge The very best value in a less expensive table is the Thorens TD1600 followed by the RP10 and then on to the Sotas. If you want the ability to upgrade down the line Sota is an even better choice. The only time you need a second cartridge is to play 78's.  As often as you would play them swapping out the cartridge would be the most efficient way of going about it.

Manufacturing turntables and tonearms is not all that difficult. I have seen several very reasonable home spun units. Making them with intelligent design and aerospace precision is not so easy. This leads to an unfortunate number of enterprises that make rather poor gear. Any company that makes a unipivot arm is suspect. Some, like Clearaudio and Kuzma do it at the low end of their ranges to keep the price down. Some do it because it is child's play to make them. Graham and Basis arms are no longer unipivots they are bipivots. Outboard motors are another point of contention. Turntables with more than one platter are functionally a joke.  More bearings equal more noise. 

I am the proud owner of a VPI HW 40 and I could not be happier with the table. It is significant, solid, sports a very heavy platter and plinth that add pitch black silence and fabulous low end performance. The 12 inch gimbal fat boy arm is a treat to use and makes my Van den Hull cartridge that much better. I anticipate the direct drive motor will give me trouble and service free performance for as long as I own it. There is no worry there. Plus VPI has been around for over 40 years. They are not going anywhere. If you have the budget it must be in your top two or three considered endgame table options. Good luck with whichever vinyl spinner you land on!

@musicmatters1206 The link might get you attention, it is a December 2022 Sales Ad.

As for cost, as a Board Machined for a TT Chassis my last purchase worked out, (inclusive of Cutting Up the full size board by a professional cutting service) to £100 per Board Cut at 500mm x 400mm x 25mm delivered to the Door. I was gifted a CNC Cut Out, for the Chassis, but this can be achieved in a variety of ways, if one has the confidence in their skills and correct tools.

Granite in the Past has far exceeded this cost when produced as a Laminated Tiered Structure with a Tidying up to the aesthetic. The owned Slate as the Raw Material with a Highly Polished Fascia, as a salvaged/repurposed item, cost some time ago approx’ £70 for a piece large enough to do Two Plinths as a Single Layer or one as a Laminated Two Tier Structure. Add the Cutting and aesthetic work to this to tidy it up and the cost will exceed the cost of a P'holz Plinth.  

These Stone Materials are no longer wanted, they are definitely Superseded as a Plinth Material. There is real benefit in not having to arrange for a Logistics Plan to move them, I am still experiencing this with Corian and it is not healthy on a Getting Old Bones Body. P'holz is a much friendlier material for such purposes.

Where P’holz has a further advantage is that a Thickness of only 10mm produces all the desirable measurements referred to in earlier made references.

Adding Tiers or using a Thicker Board does not show any alterations to the Measurements that suggest there is a further improvement to the Damping and Frequency Data recorded.

As said in a previous post, I know one individual who produced a P’holz Composite Plinth, which was designed to have a much increased Mass using a material that has proven through measurement Damping Properties. This Plinth when produced was in use as the main Plinth. After a period of time and when eventually having produced a P’holz Only Plinth. The comparison took place of the Two Plinths with the same Modified DD TT>Tonearm>Cart’ and Support Structure.

The Composite was proved to be not as attractive to their preferences and returned to a Naked P’holz design.

This individual now has Two different versions of Modifications carried out on the same Model DD TT, which are both mounted in P’holz Plinths. The idea was to keep one TT as original, but the TT in original was not tolerated any longer after experiences the impression made from the first modification.

@lewm Yes it’s too niche, hard to work with, expensive and HEAVY… I agree probably never going to be mainstream. Closest thing to that are the Artisan Fidelity plinths.

SME

Also forgot to mention - Mark Baker also confirmed that all current models of Origin Live tables are multi-voltage (will work in EU / US / Asia). Important consideration for me although I realize it may be irrelevant to many.

@drawding @cd318 thanks for bringing up Origin Live. As you can see from my original post, OL Sovereign was already on my shortlist, but its not well known in US and they are rarely found in used market. I actually exchanged notes with Mark Baker earlier this year and he seemed to recommend the OL Resolution table (with best toneram i could afford), and said Sovereign is mostly for the looks and very marginal performance upgrade.

If I can generalize my findings, two things emerge:

a. there are great small manufacturers who are not very well known, but seem to offer excellent quality at lower premiums. They have also existed for decades, they are not fly by night operators. This class includes Origin Live, Acoustic Solid, S.A.M just to name a few. I am sure folks here can name half a dozen more

b. a combo of a mid priced table+arm (say 5-6K) and a high quality cartridge (say 3-4K) perhaps is a better choice in my situation. I also think (thanks to many members's recommendation here) having two tonearm setup (or at least an upgrade path) will be useful so i can have one high end and one mid-end catridge. It will also be more fun.

@kahlenz actually i am most likely NOT getting a Rega RP10. I am inclined toward a high mass design. Also I accept the Technics SL1200G is one of the best at price class. But my wife hates the looks of it and that is a big factor....and I find it hideous too.

A friend who has been a long term owner of a SME 20 / 12 using a SME V.

Not too long ago changed the TT and after a Idler Drive Experience has chosen a Scheu TT, that is modified with OL TT Parts and has a OL Illustrious. Their assessment as they have the best recollections of A respected Belt Drive Set Up in the home system is that it is a exceptional TT and great VFM.  

@drawding

Yes, that is a strange omission.

They've been around for ages and ages but like a few other companies they've always somehow slipped under the mainstream reviewers radar.

Perhaps they're publicity shy?

Or perhaps it's the fear of expansion and all of its potential pitfalls?

I can remember the days when Rega used to get some criticism for plodding along doing quite well nicely but with no apparent ambitions to expand anytime soon.

Of course all of that changed after the infamous Linn/Naim schism which broke up their stranglehold on the UK market 

Perhaps Origin Live are the same?

There must be dozens of similarly sized companies who are happy to keep a low profile and more importantly keep their order book full for the near foreseeable future.