End Game Turntable suggestions

@musicmatters1206 I am not going to discourage you from your quest to grow your digital experience. I am going through that evolvement myself. I have a Dealer not too many miles with a Range of Jay's Audio CDT's, I am itching to have a owned Perfect Wave Memory Player demonstrated along side the Jay's Models using my Bespoke Built DAC, at present the home system is as good as packed away, so I will be a tyre kicker at present, and prior to this did not want to get caught up in a purchase that was readily available and then only to be packed away. This might be the 2024 endeavour.

As for digital in General your earlier comments on Streaming are from my most recent demonstration of streaming relevant. Putting it in context, the Streaming was played through the exact same devices, a SP10 R Vinyl Source with supporting ancillaries for the Vinyl function, to a value of approx' £20K  has been used prior to the Streaming Demonstration. The TT is a extremely impressive performer, the Streaming Demonstration was of a the latest guise of the device and was not out of its depth being replayed in a room shared with Great Vinyl and the follow Up digital devices that were to be demonstrated.

With Vinyl as the consideration and the aesthetics of the TT being a big influence on a decision to be made.

The Model in the Link may catch your attention for aesthetic appeal.

If carefully planned and created, I feel is possible to be produced for approx' $1200, even with Polished Stacked Platters and if the Slate Top Plate on the Plinth is exchanged and a Veneered Densified Wood is used in its place. This will deliver a impressive performance as seen, the PTP Design does let an Idler Stand Out in delivered performance over other Idler Models.

Add to this at a later date or from the off set a luxury item such as a Speed Controller at approx' $1000. A LDA Quartz Lock, which I know well and have demonstrated it against other Speed Controllers, where it has shown to be a exceptional influence on a Idler Drive and also a Belt Drive.

With the correct planning and prudent purchase of a Donor TT. There is a lot of TT here for the monies and a lot of monies saved for other items to support the TT and the digital interest. 

    

By considering Vintage TT's and as already suggested, the Technics SP 10 Mk ii or Mk iii. There is a lot to be had in term of performance for the outlay, and there is plenty of support at hand for this Brand and especially these two Models in both the US and Europe.

My own Mk ii is with a Custom Paint Coating to the Chassis costing £200.

Finished in the Blackest of Blacks with a Multiple Coating of Lacquers, with a Polished Finish. If visual appeal is important there is not much more to be desired if black is one's preference.

There is no shortage of Plinth Designs available for this model, a Web Search will reveal the works being carried out.

I feel a SP10 Mk ii fully overhauled, with a New Applied Coating to the Chassis, 'if desired'. Mounted in a Bespoke Plinth will be achievable for not too far from half your budget if donor model is prudently sourced. I can advise on this via email if interested in where to search out a donor.

A SP10 Mkii or Mkiii are a very sought after TT, in both the US and Europe with again in both the US and Europe, excellent servicing facilitation seen on offer from a variety of sources.  Having the Power Supply concern resolved is a minimum concern if changing from 110V to 230V 60Hz.      

Well looked after Models hold their Value and are Investments that are appreciating in Value and sell quickly when the need may arise. As the TT is to be a Keeper, the selling on is not really a short-term concern.   

I have been careful/prudent and have a substantial appreciation in the value, when compared to what my Refurbed and Modified Mk ii cost.

For the record the SP10 Mkii, in a Refurbed / Modified condition is the Model that finished my regular usage of Overhauled / Modified Idler Drives.

Idler Drives finished my regular usage of Belt Drives many many years past.  

The set up in the link can be achieved if prudent with the SP10 Mkii Motor Unit Purchase. All seen can be achieved for approx' £2500 as a higher end of the price range costing.

This fee will allow for a refurbishment of the TT and a Chassis Recoating if desired.

There is also a much more attractive finish in Black for the Chassis if wanted to be created, a Custom Spray Paint Shop is your friend. To help control costs have a look at some of Upcoming Paint Jobs, as this will reduce costs if a Paint is selected already accounted for to be used on a larger project.

Lots of Monies left in the Budget for Arm > Cart' and a Mounting Sub Plinth System.

There is an attraction in having an input into how a TT can look and being instrumental in choices made for how it can Perform.

The SP10 Mkiii will cost more, but I and a few friends are sold on the Mkii.

I don't know of many who would reject a VGC Mkii, and would prefer the Mkiii as the alternative to satisfy their needs. 

 

If a Vacuum Clamping of the LP is wanted as a wish list and a TT offering this as a built in design is extending beyond the desired budget. There is other options to achieve a Vacuum Clamped LP.

I have had extended use of a loaned Audio Technica AT-666.

It will Clamp and Hold Vacuum for the duration of a side of a LP.

It does take a short process to achieve the Vacuum, but this period can be used in conjunction with a put in place with a Brush or Anti Static Treatment of the LP, so should not be to much addition to a pre play ritual. 

The AT-666 when used in a comparison with my selection of Platter Mats, has proved to a worthwhile addition, but is also the one that has produced the leanest presentation out of owned Metal Mats. In hindsight, I wish I had used the AT-666 as a stacked Platter Mat assembly as well to see what else could be extract from it.

A AT-666 in VGC should cost approx' £150, I have bought a Pump for £30 and will eventually acquire the mat to add to my collection.

The Design is available from other TT Brands as well, maybe having been produced by AT and rebranded. I know this has happened with AT Tonearms.

The Link is a few years old and will answer most questions.

   

 

I'm adding this post for the OP, as well as anybody whom might visit this thread seeking information at a later date. 

It does look like the range of TT's and Drive Motor Designs for the TT's has become extensive since the idea of a Used Model extended into suggestions for a Vintage Model as well.

It is known that a Vintage Model with a certain level of attention given to the servicing of the designs incorporated critical parts, such as a Platter Bearing, Motor Bearing (Idler Drive) and the Electrics can produce a TT that is a worthy contender to a Modern Design / Produced TT costing much more.

Add to the attention to servicing, additional attention for the optimisation of the Speed Control and the Vintage Model will catapult itself even further toward being a worthy competitor. It does not take too much searching to discover ancillaries are being offered and readily available, as 'Off the Shelf' or 'DIY Build',  that have the capability to substantially improve on this area of performance as well.

Both Belt, or Idler Drives are easily improved on with this approach to additional ancillaries to control speed. I have a Custom Built Speed Control Unit that works on both Idler and Belt Drive TT's. It has proved a substantial improvement on my Idler Drives. I have not experienced it on an owned Belt Drive, but have heard another version of it used on a Belt Drive in another system and am of the opinion, the TT was much improved as a result of the ancillary being added.   

The DD TT in general is already supplied with a design that will offer a very accurate speed control incorporated.

The add on ancillaries for a Belt or Idler Drive can in certain cases cost as much as a complete and functioning DD TT. This is one reason that attracts one to the DD TT as a worthwhile consideration. 

DD TT's come with a more difficult task requirement, if there is a intention to improve on the Models designed Speed Control. A certain skill level is required to understand the Model of DD TT's electronics and it is best practice to use an EE with a known history of working on these designs, the chances are going to be significantly increased to receive a optimised end product.

My SP10 Mkii has a undergone a Overhaul of Electrics and Mechanical Parts. Additionally it has a Modification carried out by a very well respect EE who specialises in these TT's. The Mod' in place has improved Speed Control on this TT when compared to the usual function.

Many Vintage TT's in use are not optimised for use. This is ultimately present as a , result of the age of the TT Model.

The risk areas relate to the Platter Bearing, especially the unknown quantity of Rotations having happened and the condition within the Bearing Housing potentially being unwanted, whilst these rotations have been and are happening.

The Platter Bearing is an important consideration, the common encounter, when being investigative of the inner of the Bearing Housing. Is the chance that  the Bearing Housing Internal and Parts that have a Mechanical Interface are Arid Dry.

Commonly the evidence to be seen, is that the Bearing Liner Bush, which will usually be produced from a Metal, is in direct contact with the Platter Spindle during rotations. Arid Dry Conditions with abrasive metal on metal operation is not optimised in any description. 

A less common encounter is where the Spindle Base has a contact with a Steel Ball that has Scribe Marks etched into the Balls surface. The Arid Dry Condition with a Spindle seated upon and and in direct contact with a damaged ball, is certainly an unwanted interface. The abrasive effects of a defaced Ball will certainly have a unwanted impact on the quietness of the bearing in operation.  Arid Dry Conditions with abrasive metal on metal operation is not optimised in any description.

The Thrust Pad in contact with the Ball, is most likely to be seen with a excessive wear, (indentation) this will increase friction, especially when the contact is Arid Dry. A worse case is when a evidence is witnessed, where the wear suggests that a Eccentric Rotation has been occurring, (this can suggest Bush Wear has occurred). The Worst case is to see evidence of Eccentric Rotation as the suggested cause of the Wear and Metal Powder (Probably Gold Colour) on the Thrust Pad (The Gold Dust is most likely dust from the Bush serving as a sacrificial part, and the dust is present as a result of abrasive contact in a Arid Dry interface.

There is today, no need to use Metal Bush Liners, there are Thermoplastics that are totally suitable for this role. Additionally there the same Thermoplastic Materials and other options, readily available to replace a Steel Ball and Thrust Pad.

The selection of replacement materials, will depend on how low the end user would like a 'coefficient of friction' to be achieved for the overall function and how fragile one would want their choice of materials to be, that are to be used within the bearing housing.

Changing the condition of Arid Dry and creating a Lubricated Bearing Internal, is quite straight forward, there are many different Viscosities for the Lubricant to consider.   Where the complication arises is the maintaining the Lubrication within the Bearing Housing, as many designs as their basic are not able to keep a Lubricant, there is a leaching that will occur from the sump local to the Thrust Pad..

Maintaining Hydrodynamic Lubrication (HL) between the parts interfacing is another challenge and it is not known which Bearing Housing are able to maintain this condition from Vintage through to the Latest Designs.

The term (HL) is a Buzz Word for Bearing Design, but maintaining the condition throughout operation over a period is not easy to prove is in place, a alternative approach would be best to cultivate a periodical revisit to the needs for lubricant. .

Cultivating a discipline to care for the regular maintenance of checking Lubrication would be an advisable practice in this matter.

The overhauling a Bearing is getting more support daily, and there are skill sets making themselves available to assist with this task.

It is not uncommon for certain Brands Models to see direct swap out replacement Bearing Housings on offer. Built using Thermoplastics at the Metal Spindle Contact Interfaces, as well as having the option to select other materials as well.

A Bearing can also have Bespoke Bushes Machined to fit the radius dimension of the actual Spindle in use and the inner wall radius dimension of the Bearing Housing .    

I have Bearing Housings using the above Swap Out Method and also have original Bearing Housings Overhauled and with New Parts Machined in Thermoplastic to  suit the radius dimensions of the parts retained and supersede the use of original metal parts.

My experience is that it is quite possible and not too costly to achieve a Vintage TT, that can hold it own extremely closely to any TT up to 10 x it overall cost.

I have put my 'go to TT' along side TT's owned by others, to which one has the retail value of £25K, and have seen the responses from the attendees at the demonstrations. At a Public Demonstration, Two Directors of a Company that produces TT's to a value of £50K, told me they felt compelled to return to my Demonstration Room and give me a appraisal, which pretty much stated how impressed they were, and it reminded them of listening to their customers set ups with the most expensive systems.

SP10 Mkii's, most recently SP10 Mkii Kaneta and the SP10 R are now the main TT's within my HiFi Group. Prior to this the SME 20/12 with SME V was the Groups revered TT to aspire to.

The Groups SME owner has even moved on, originally to a Garrard 401 and now with a Scheu Analogue TT, that has undergone a few mod's and is reported by the HiFi Group as an extremely good TT and very affordable to achieve.

I have supplied a costing figure earlier that is realistic if the Donor TT is purchased with a prudent approach. 

Note: This post is not to promote the SP10, it is to make it known, a Vintage TT of any Drive Type, will need to be thought about with a few extra considerations and associated costs, if wanting the chosen model to be optimised for function.   

@au_lait It is great to see a positive appraisal from an experienced TT user about the impact Panzerholz has made on a TT they have a familiarity with.

I am regularly being supplied accounts that are very similar to the account you are sharing.

I am a advocate of P'holz with the same passion I have for using PC Triple C Wire, as a Internal Wand Wire in a Tonearm and any other easier to achieve interfaces within a System. Either one of these materials are able to change a perception and create a very positive appraisal.

As for the P'holz, I have shared regularly the benefits I have encountered through the usage of it, and have been an encourager to others to use it.

When adopted as a material, the responses received back are as per your own, where I am receiving a very positive appraisal and there is a commitment to the material as the outcome.

One individual I purchased P'holz for, has become so impressed they are not only producing Plinths and further using it as a Sub Plinth.

They have now adopted my requests that have been presented on a regular occasion and produced a TT Chassis from P'holz.

Along with this venture, they are Pioneers using their CNC Skills to produce a host of parts they believed would benefit from being exchanged to P'holz.

I have been demonstrated some of this fledgling work and can assure that there is a difference for the better, cleaner better shaping of Vocals and Notes is a definite   perception. There is no returning to Metal or Plastic Parts that is a asurity, just as a adopter of this material to being used as a Plinth is very rarely discovered to have not wanted to maintain the material. I only know of one person who has used it not as 'P'holz Only',  but used it as a composite. They preferred this sonic for a period of time. When comparing the composite to a 'P'holz Only' at a later date, they chose the P'holz only as their preferred material for the detail retrieval and turned the composite into a 'P'holz Only' as well. 

I am in communication with others around the Globe, and some have now adopted the ideas to use this in place of a Mass Support Structure as a Plinth for a TT.

What was not expected was when I witnessed Idler Drive Owners. who were die hard in their favouritism for a Mass Plinth. when having experienced a Densified Wood, changed their philosophies and are not with a Plinth in a P'holz or Permali.  

Again the reports from those adopting to P'holz with a DD TT are quite something and the Comparison Measurements being shown are quite informative, especially the 'db' comparisons being substantially improved when compared to a Mass Plinth Design.  

I was in contact with an individual in Mainland Europe who was an advocate of Wood Tonearm Wands. They adopted P'holz and were extremely impressed by the material. They have even sought out other Densified Wood, where there are increased Laminations than the 25 per 25mm. Pico Wood comes to mind. As a result of this very high appraisal, I have offered Densified Wood 'off cuts' to other users of wood wands that I know off.

With the access to a CNC and Skilled user, I am setting aside a P'holz Board for another investigative venture.

I have pretty much decided I don't want to do too much more with the Sony TTS 8000, there are a few things that make it a hard TT, to promote to others as a TT to attempt to do additional work with.

I am now to use a one of my owned Denon DP-80's as a Donor Model.

This is hopefully going to end up with having the original Chassis Produced from P'holz as a replacement.

In my assessment, due to the Magnetic Strip on the Platter much of the 'under the hood' parts will need to be maintained on the New Chassis. This could be changed as I am yet to have my friend EE who specialises in DD TT's assess the potential for a change to the design and offer further improvements.

When the EE gets into the Nitty Gritty, the Speed Control will certainly be assessed to see where an improvement can be added.

The EE is also a adept engineer and machinist, with this TT, the Bearing assembly will be checked to see if it can contain a Low Viscosity Oil, and a Bearing Housing will be produced that will contain such an oil without a concern for a leach out. This was done for the TTS 8000 to a very successful outcome.

The Bearing will also be reconstructed using New Parts that will be a design with a  Low Coefficient of Friction.

The Platter on this Model lends itself to works being undertaken that have had a great effect on the performance of a DD TT.

The DP -80 Platter, is a Two Piece Assembly where a Top Plate is removable.  I have a Phosphor Bronze Part as a direct replacement for the Original Top Plate.

The intention is also to produce a Phosphor Bronze / 20mm Delrin Top Plate and a Delrin Only Top Plate possibly close to a 40mm Thickness, it might get done in two 20mm's pieces to assess the effects of the mass of the material used at this location. 

I know for sure there are going to be a very noticeable differences to the performance of the Original DP-80, but I have a original one reserved for the A/B Comparisons.

It will also be off interest to see how the original might change in its performance with the options for an increased amount of designs to be used as an exchange part as the Top Plate on the Platter. 

As seen with other TT's having adopted the used of P'holz.

The use of P'holz with the DP-80, will in my view be the Key to the door, to allow all other changes added to be optimised for their impact on the performance.   

Densified Wood has a very different measurement to nearly all materials typically used as a Plinth.

From knowledge gathered there are only a few substances that are close in measurement to damping factor measured in a Densified Wood and none of these will be referred to as Typical Material seen in use.

Densified Wood also has a quite different frequency to other materials and it is this combined with the Damping Factor that places it where it is with desirable measurements, and seen ideal to adopt the role of a Plinth, and is becoming used for other roles as well.

Panzerholz, was one of the materials promoted in the earliest days by those who were using science to prove the value of moving away from a Mass Plinth.

Possibly due to the Brand being readily available in Mainland Europe and for quite a period of time in the UK, it is a Densified Wood that has gathered a popular use with those expressing an interest in this side of the Science and available Technology to support it.

It has to be experienced in use, there is not easy ways to describe how it use, a whole new insight into how a recording can sound will manifest.

Combine this with PC Tripe C Wire as Upstream Signal Wire in a Analogue Chain and there is a tremendous amount of betterment on offer.

I really do hope a Cart' is produced with this wire as a Coil Wire in the not too distant, that would make not just one person happy.        

 

@au_lait There is something satisfying about having a selection of Densified Woods on Standby. I have Board up to 75mm thick.

The Pass Design Korg Nu-Tube Pre-Amp is one I know very well.

Have witnessed it in demonstrations at a Pre-Amp Bake Off where the price range of Amp's were up to £4K retail. It held its own totally respectfully if a transparency and clarity is the desirable perception for being present.

After having a loaned and tweaked by a friends Basic Model in my system for approx' 1 year, and really coming to terms with how this design delivers.

I am having a Mono Block Balanced / Single Ended Pre' Built for me using this design, with a New Produced Circuit Board that allows for a Component used to a Larger Dimension without a squeeze. To make the most of the design, I have also gone to the lengths of having two perfectly matched Volume Controls Bespoke Built for me.

  I have been discussing with the EE, the use of Densified Wood for the Casings.      

I have real estate for large diameter Cap's which will be seated as typical and not be squeezed in to a create a attachment. 

This will be the housing that may be produced from a Densified Wood. The Power Supply is looking likely to be within its own casing as there are demonstrations from other builds that suggest this is a valuable Topology. 

 

@terry9 I did not know of others who are using the P'holz as a Arm Wand.

Did your experience leave you with the perception there was another level of detail  being extracted (crud removed ) with this as the material.

Each Time I experience it in use as a exchange material to a material I am quite familiar with. There is a certainty a extension of detail is present and a new comprehension is created of the structure of the recording during the presentation. The other trait that is on offer, and one that takes a little extra time to convince oneself is present, is the added micro details to how the instrument has been used, or the Vocal Note Formed. This is a lot of improvement for a little bit of being curious and not with too much cost involved to step so far forward in a improvement. I find it hard to see this as a subjective evaluation, there are so many reports all making claims that have a cross over of information. 

For those with a mind to produce a range of items for HiFi purposes, It is becoming a go to material now. Which is at this stage of being presented as material worthy of investigation, is now with about 12 years of forum promotion for the investigation into the usage behind it.   

Panzerholz is a Trade Name for one Type of Densified Wood.

Densified Woods produced to a Similar Structure to P'holz and using a Phenolic Based Resin are available from a variety of Brands.

No Company has to declare the Materials it is using, it can also apply their own in house name to the Material to protect their IP.

If I were a Commercial Entity, I am not too sure how open I would be about supplying to competitors how the R&D has given the edge, and the Sharing the  information about Bespoke Material choices that has been crucial the the evolvement.

On the Flip Side, if I have nailed the Market and am a 'go to' Brand, the way the Product is described might be a little bit more informative to show the commitment to creative design.   

I have received an inquiry from a US Forum Member only yesterday and have made known to them, Five Brands and the design for the Board that is needed to be a similar Board to P'holz B25.

 The following is a few question and answers from a individual with a Very Long Career at the Cutting Edge of Mainstream Industries.

Their Career started many years past, at Siemens working on solutions to control vibration.

This individual has a ongoing Career in Mainstream Industry and Created a Company that has been producing Speakers that are highly appraised in the Audio World. 

Additionally, the individual remains a Consultant to Industry, especially the Automotive and is employed as a visionary for their future planning. 

There are other Companies that are using Densified Wood, it is to be found mentioned as a Material used in Speakers, which makes sense when seeing the following from the very respected Speaker Producer.

The Individual who created this Company and is very involved in the design for the Product Range, is an Advocate of Densified Wood and its unique properties for managing transferral of energies created during replays of a recording through a Typical Type of design for a Audio System. 

______________________________________________________________

So what is the benefit of tankwood?

Tankwood is very dense and stiff, it has almost the same Young modulus like aluminium (standard not air craft grade). And it is an inhomogeneous material. It starts a 1,4 mm beech veneers slices which are bonded together under enormous pressure and with some 2 component resin.  So there is a correlation to carbon panels, which are carbon fibres embedded in a resin. Here we have wood fibres embedded in a resin.

You can order different alignments between the layers which have different properties to address what kind of mechanical stress (push-pull, bending, torsion) you have in your panel. Most interesting feature compared to homogenous materials like MDF, HDF and aluminium is that the speed of sound in the material is different in each direction. Why? See, the speed of sound in a rigid  material is the square root of Young modulus divided by density.

The young modulus is different in the 3 directions but the density is constant. Therefore the speed of sound is different in each direction leading to a high dispersion of energy so that resonance can not build up so easily.

Please tell us more about your unique internal design? 

All internal braces and panels are designed to have different eigenfrequencies.

We use several approaches to do this, one is to design some dimensions according to the Devine ratio (“Golden ratio in nature”) the other is about modal spacing where we try to use Fibonaci algorithm. 

Furthermore we are implementing an acoustic labyrinth with a billion of possible transfer paths in the critical areas.

______________________________________________________________

More importantly over the past years of Trying out Plinth and Sub Plinth Materials, I have not been able to discover a description of a Material as is described in this individuals words about a Densified Wood.

I have seen a variety of  data on offer for testing that is done on Densified Wood.

It was the Test Results that encouraged myself away from Granite and Slate and other Timber Composites.

It is the descriptions that are rarely found like the above, from a Specialist in such matters of controlling a transferred energy that is ensuring I made a valuable decision for my own situation.

It is no secret, I have encouraged others to experience Densified Wood, and the reports being returned along with the report returned form others across the globe is one more confirmation the material delivers something that is quite attractive and wanting to be maintained.  

@terry9 You have been investigative with your usage of P'holz. The venture into the unknown has certainly delivered and the good impression made from the use of the material is once more out there to be seen.

I added a info in a previous post that was a mistake, in relation to a Densified Wood the individual was keen to try out who I encouraged to produce an Arm Wand.

I stated Pico Wood, this is a Company in Spain that does a Phenolic Densified Wood.

Now I have seen how investigative you are, I am off the view the wood I should have stated may have an appeal. The following will give a Good Description for your pondering.

The Link is the Brand of Densified Wood I should have stated for an alternative Densified Wood Arm Wand Material.

 

 

A friend who has been a long term owner of a SME 20 / 12 using a SME V.

Not too long ago changed the TT and after a Idler Drive Experience has chosen a Scheu TT, that is modified with OL TT Parts and has a OL Illustrious. Their assessment as they have the best recollections of A respected Belt Drive Set Up in the home system is that it is a exceptional TT and great VFM.  

As for cost, as a Board Machined for a TT Chassis my last purchase worked out, (inclusive of Cutting Up the full size board by a professional cutting service) to £100 per Board Cut at 500mm x 400mm x 25mm delivered to the Door. I was gifted a CNC Cut Out, for the Chassis, but this can be achieved in a variety of ways, if one has the confidence in their skills and correct tools.

Granite in the Past has far exceeded this cost when produced as a Laminated Tiered Structure with a Tidying up to the aesthetic. The owned Slate as the Raw Material with a Highly Polished Fascia, as a salvaged/repurposed item, cost some time ago approx’ £70 for a piece large enough to do Two Plinths as a Single Layer or one as a Laminated Two Tier Structure. Add the Cutting and aesthetic work to this to tidy it up and the cost will exceed the cost of a P'holz Plinth.  

These Stone Materials are no longer wanted, they are definitely Superseded as a Plinth Material. There is real benefit in not having to arrange for a Logistics Plan to move them, I am still experiencing this with Corian and it is not healthy on a Getting Old Bones Body. P'holz is a much friendlier material for such purposes.

Where P’holz has a further advantage is that a Thickness of only 10mm produces all the desirable measurements referred to in earlier made references.

Adding Tiers or using a Thicker Board does not show any alterations to the Measurements that suggest there is a further improvement to the Damping and Frequency Data recorded.

As said in a previous post, I know one individual who produced a P’holz Composite Plinth, which was designed to have a much increased Mass using a material that has proven through measurement Damping Properties. This Plinth when produced was in use as the main Plinth. After a period of time and when eventually having produced a P’holz Only Plinth. The comparison took place of the Two Plinths with the same Modified DD TT>Tonearm>Cart’ and Support Structure.

The Composite was proved to be not as attractive to their preferences and returned to a Naked P’holz design.

This individual now has Two different versions of Modifications carried out on the same Model DD TT, which are both mounted in P’holz Plinths. The idea was to keep one TT as original, but the TT in original was not tolerated any longer after experiences the impression made from the first modification.

@musicmatters1206 The link might get you attention, it is a December 2022 Sales Ad.

 

@mijostyn Your description of a Densified Wood and in your case the reference to Panzerholz is quite limited in description and does not demonstrate where it separates as a Production Method to a Typical Reference to a Plywood. 

The Process used to produce a Phenolic Resin Densified Wood is using extreme compression multiple layer of a Veneer. The Veneers are to receive a specified  volume @ g/m2 of Phenolic Resin between each layer of Veneer in the Ply Assembly.

This is then compressed as an assembly to reduce the original thickness by 50%, a 1.4 mm Veneer will compress to approx' 0.7mm. 

The entire assembly is then Vacuum Treated (removes all air pockets from imperfections and the Woods Cell Structure, which will be filled with the flow of the Phenolic Resin).

There is also a process to administer a Heat Treatment.

Densified Woods are now with a Patent in place for more than 100 Years and the Production Technology and extended use of application for the product due to this has been an evolving R&D.

The Dynawood Brand for Densified Wood is one that has a selection of Colours as the Option, but this suits a particular industry, such as Knife Handles.

The statement made about the use of Aluminium and P'holz for the same role and having same impact is pure conjecture, if one took the time to review the Measurements as a result of Damping and Frequency response they could not so flippantly make such a statement. 

There are obvious differences between the effect the two materials will have to be anticipated as occurring, there is data to explain differences when discovered.   

The Link is a portal that is found from the most basic of Web Searches.

Another case in relation to your remarks of the 'Old Guard' getting it quite wrong in relation to what is required for modern military manoeuvres.

 

 

Interesting the air cushion bearing being referred to.

During the past 18 Months I have shared a few emails with an individual about works being undertaken on a Vintage TT, to improve on the OEM Performance.

Today at this end and their end similar things have evolved for the design.

A Bearing design being produced is to be a complete rethink of the original, and a step quite different to some of the email exchanges.

The design is now based on a Air Film as a separator at the interfaces between parts on the Bearing Housing.

I believe this new direction is now in practice, as my own and this individuals thoughts has been that a Hydrodynamic Lubrication is a challenge and will be difficult to maintain.

This individual also makes there own platters for the TT model, as an addition to this there is also to be a Mag Suspension produced in conjunction with the New Bearing Design.

Densified Wood is now adopted by this individual and they are giving it a High Appraisal as a Plinth material in relation to other materials used for a Plinth with recognised and valued damping properties.

@musicmatters1206 The Thread has been about your inquiry for suggestions to acquire an End Game TT.

In response to this, there are Options made known in relation to your budget, and around TT's proposed on your early days Shortlist.

The Thread has also gone a little of the usual path as there has been the suggestion of a Used or New Model, with the used option extending to the Vintage TT as a option.

What matters in a choice to be made is how the aesthetic stimulates and is welcomed into the home as a visualised item. 

'Beauty is in the eye of the beholder' so with this in mind, your eyes, your attraction to beauty. You've already revealed a Magpie Tendency and get drawn to a Shiny Blingy Item.  

What has also been made known is how a certain material or design aspect can leave a very very good impression when experienced. To the point that any previous Materials or Design are no longer wanted to be returned to.

As for materials used there is an aesthetic to be worked around and this might not be wanted to be overcome.

As for the Design @terry9 has made it known that a Bearing Design now in use, has proven to them that it is functioning in a manner that makes it much more attractive to have than older used designs.

There is a journey to discover a TT that is to ones satisfaction, I myself am on this Journey, I have my End Game TT, and am using it as a Model to bring it to a design that will be quite a tool for a LP Replay.

Servicing, Addressing Speed Control, Mounting of the TT ( ongoing ), Bearing Design ( Ongoing ), Platter Design ( Ongoing ).

Each of the Ongoing Investigations are able to take the TT to another level of performance.

With that in mind, and the knowledge that you have significantly expended on your Vinyl Collection. A similar curiosity and enthusiasm may develop for the Mechanical and Electrical Interfaces within yourself, where there becomes a interest in discovering where there are options available to eek out the betterment of the Set Up.

Some of this can be addressed prior to making a purchase, i.e, Speed Stability Platter Material, Bearing Design, Structural Materials.

There is no rush to make a Purchase, and having taken time to have studied and develop an improved knowledge of what makes a Mechanical and Electrical Device function as a Standout Performer is a worthwhile undertaking, especially one that will have a sizeable cost and will have a significance of importance attached to it as a Tool to be used.   

       

I do not follow the forum member 'Shakti' on Whatsbestforum, but I have followed their reported on experiences and communicated directly about these on more than a few occasions over the past years through other points of contact.

Where I have directly experienced some of the experiences reported on, I am happy state the a 'Shakti' report is with a very accurate commentary and description.

There are very very few that have experiences under their belt as Shakti has and the communication with Industry Leaders in Vinyl Replay as he has.

Shakti is now in possession of a Motus from November 2022 and the reports to be found on the performance and comparative descriptions are IMO, worthy of taking on board.