Are tubes psychological?

@oldhvymec - That's Quay Lewd, dude! Yeah, I've seen the Tubes loads of times here in San Francisco, especially during their earlier days in the 70's...  Got some great photos, too, but I don't know how to post them on here without a URL....

As MC suggested, we create our own reality. So are tubes psychological? It’s your world. Say they are, say they’re not, it’s all the same story. No story, no world. 
 

Still, the world is more pleasant with tubes. I can’t imagine audio without them. 

The endless tube debate.  Frankly, tables sound better and it is objective, not subjective.

The problem is with the physics equations and what is defined as "distortion".  What is defined as "distortion" by physicists is actually positive sound quality, esp, in the lower harmonics.  This "distortion" is what provides the warm, rich sound of tubes.

I still remember when I was having my dad's classic tube system being rebuilt by Audio Classics.  I was talking to the tech, an engineer who had retired from IBM.  He commented on how solid state sounds better than tubes.  He started talking about charts, graphs, and other stuff like that that proved he was right.  Interestingly, he never mentioned one recording or piece of equipment--just graphs.  I call this listening by equations.  He was a great technician, but had no understanding of music.

Here is an article that actually explains this.

https://spectrum.ieee.org/the-cool-sound-of tubes

(Hopefully the link survives the security on this site.)

This shows how things labeled as "distortion" in tube equipment is misleading.

You have to trust your ears and listen.

Last I knew recording studios virtually always have tubes in the microphone amplifiers because they do somehow produce a warmer, less sterile sound.. What does that actually mean? I'm not sure, but the folks who make a living from music prefer tubes for vocals, or they did 10 or so years ago, I haven't revisited the subject in quite a while. OTOH, there are tubes, and there are tubes. The E6SN7s in a good circuit are awesome, most post WWII Sylvania tubes AFAIK, all suck, and the WWII and before Sylvanias are insanely expensive. So, it can become an insanely expense hobby once you start rolling tubes. The new Gold Lion line from New Sensor, in my finite experience are extremely good, and as stated, the E6SN7's by Linlai are awesome in a good circuit. If you want to check it out inexpensively I would recommend Schiit Audio's Lyr. I don't know how good their new Freya preamps are, I sold my original Freya it required 2 particular tubes to sound reasonably good, and I mean reasonably good. I got the Lyr out of curiosity, but it sounds pretty decent with the E-6SN7 tube. A set of E-6SN7 tubes are about as expensive as the preamp, but I tried getting individual tubes to save money, they were mostly garbage, pay up and get the manufacturer tested pair, even though your only using one at a time. That's an inexpensive introduction to a very good entry level preamp. The Vali 2 with a nice Siemens tube isn't bad either, but the Lyr better represents the full potential of a tube preamp. From there, I'd recommend a DS2, Don Sachs hand makes them, and he is semi-retired so he has slowed down production. They don't often show up on the used market, and the older ones don't have the option to use a better diode tube, etc.

It’s like reading a book by a cozy fire versus central heat.

Same book, different experience.

That’s kind of how it feels to me.

Like "I emit, therefore I am?"

Yeah, a good tube amp is something else.  It just pulls out the atmospheric, ambient, and most importantly, the 3D musical shape plus the multiple layers locked away in the music.  While my Pass Class A amps sound good, they don't get the natural flow that my Lamm bottle amps cook-up.  The music just comes out from such a black background; it's an immersive and thoroughly enjoyable experience!  Music is one of those things that rejuvenates the soul, so in that sense, maybe tubes do have a psychological healing or relaxing element to it...  

Have an Amp with six KT88s on top of each monoblock.Generally listen in the dark. Except for the tube glow. Gotta say they make the perfect light once your eyes adjust. Sounds pretty good as well.

It’s a beautiful thing!

It could depend on where you put the tubes, and what you've ingested before you're using them. 😉

None.

We need expert opinion.

Let's hear what the moths say.

If only we could measure psychological.

Neither loop nor belt.

Interesting question.  For me, they simply make Maggies live up to their potential even though I do use a SS on the bottom end right now.  I would prefer a tube amp there as well, but will have to save a bit of $ to get that D-76A on ebay right now.

No fair anyone buying it until I can!  I call dibs on it!

Oh, if you want to buy it and send it to me as a gift, I promise to give you all the credit here on the Forum.

Cheers!

Sure, the psychological aspect is some part of it. The sound of a good pure tube amp (and there are plenty of not so good ones) is appealing for a good reason. Solid state amps distort primarily odd order harmonics. Even distortion that’s barely measurable on a SS amp can be distracting and annoying to the ear. Tube amps, while having a total harmonic distortion much higher than SS, they tend to be much lower on odd order distortion, and do so more on even order harmonics. Not only do most people find this less objectionable. In fact, this is why most every rock or pop guitarist use tube amps when overdriving for the "fuzz" sound.

I do not have tube amps but my pre and phono pre have tubes but I cannot see them. What I can see on everything are big blue meters and they do have a calming affect on me while listening. Yes I am addicted to blue meters...!

First of all tubes sound amazing compared to solid state. Second, tubes are just really cool. I enjoy watching lightning in a bottle help me hear music.

Tubes gives a more “natural “analoge” sound . Very detailed,more 3D: you “feel” the music more than with a transitoramp: is more digital :: ampathizing with the music is less by transistor 

My all-tranny Mytek server+phono stage generates a good two-thirds the heat as my eight tube integrated PrimaLuna. Plus, there's no on/off switch like the PL's got. When I switch my components off for the night, the Primaluna cools to room temp. Meantime, the Mytek, even on Stand By, still stays warm and sucks from the grid.

I rarely listen with my Luxman SS any more. The Mctubes just sound nice. Whereas the Luxman somehow seems sterile.

Is it any surprise that people describe tube components as sounding "warm" considering many tubes produce tactile heat? Whoever started that silliness didn't work too hard to come up with it.

Science tells us there is no music, just various patterns of compression waves. There is no thought, just voltage potentials propagating along neurons and across synapses. But those very neurons are all just patterns of electric fields bonding valence shells. And yet for all that here we are thinking, more or less, and questioning. Are tubes psychological?

What isn’t?

Tubes are in fact philosophical I cannot even see mine and they still speak to me and relax me. And sound good. And have meaning. 😉

Of course tubes are psychological. But amps sound different too. Different amps all have their own characteristics. One manufacturer's solid state amps sound different than another's. And so do dufferent tube manufacturers. But tubes in general have particular characteristics compared to solid state.

They have higher distortion unless the solid state has very low loop feedback which does occur but very, very rarely. And if the tube amp is single ended it has extra high distortion which is mainly second order, which fortunately is musical but still not accurate.

With very few exceptions in out world of low efficiency speakers(with exceptions) tube amps have less power than solid state(there have been a countable number of high power tube amps like Melos) which can limit your choice of speakers. And most flat response speakers are low to mid efficiency.

Tube amps have low damping factor and this interacts with speaker impedance to alter system frequency response. Check the Stereophile response curve with simulated load. Basically where the speaker impedance curve goes up with low damping you get a corresponding system frequency response affect.

And if your tube amp(or very rare solid state amp) is single ended it is inherently non-linear. If you put a sine wave through it the bottom half of the curve doesn't go as low as the top half goes up.

Of course solid state isn't perfect. It's probably more accurate but if solid state foibles bother you more than tube foibles then even though they may be technically bigger foibles go tube. You're the one that will be listening to your valuable music for hours and hours

I like the sound of components that use tubes.  The "warm glow" doesn't do anything positive for me.  Rather, it reminds me that each one of these suckers is going to need to be replaced somewhere along the line, and then I start to do the math in my head (2 x 4 x $140), (2 x 2 x 125), 1 x $275.  Then I wonder why I bought tube gear.  Then I start listening to the music again and know why I bought tube gear.

…just knowing they are there…..

Probably not that. I upgraded from amps where the tubes are visible to amps where they are not. And the new gear sounds better. 

If you can't see them you can't hear the difference? Must be mind over matter!

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Really? Maybe I got the odd few dozen valve amps and valve preamps that do sound quit a bit different, from each other and SS equipment. Why would someone own more than one of anything if it didn't sound different. I thought it was because it did, sound different... Just sayin' My STUFF doesn't disappear like some people say. I know exactly what is making noise at my joint. :-)

Regards

If you can't see them you can't hear the difference? Must be mind over matter!

Tubes can look cool on some equipment that puts them out front so all can see, but I have also had tube preamps that do not, and whether it looks cool or not, it the sound is what really matters.

AND there are the TUBES. Check out those platforms. I’ve seen them at least a dozen times. I think that is Quaalude.. I’m sure I’ll be corrected if I’m wrong.
White dopes on punk! LOL Been a while.

Regards

Yes the glow of the tubes and warmer sound are therapeutic , and look cool 

with  older tubes you can get with Blue glass,  even newer ones in power tubes 

kt88 and EL34  which are nice .

we justuilt  a addition on the house bigger family room and the Amber Edison bulbs 

give it a cool nostalgic look ,, so yes there is a therapeutic nostalgic aspect to it .

It's audio, it is all sensory, thus everything is psychological.

None

Yes of course tubes are psychological. Electrical engineers designed tubes to emulate the warm glow of embers burning low in the campfire. This is why they use plates heated to a red-orange glow. 

The little tubes don't have quite the same effect, which is why they are sometimes mounted inside. Shouldn't be, the effect is much less charming, but most of the ones stuck inside you're not missing much anyway. The bigger more beautiful tubes however are always mounted on top, displayed proudly like the torch carried by the runner to light the Olympic flame. 

Nothing sets a campfire off like the night. So of course all the best tubes are mounted in front of big black transformers. This is all for dramatic effect of course. Imagine if they put the transformers in front of the tubes! Also notice the little tubes that don't put out as much warm glow are mounted in between the big orange ones? Their glassy bottles create reflections that enhance the effect. 

Some like the effect so much they arrange them around the room, sometimes putting one by each speaker. This is nice I guess but I was always a one campfire kind of explorer. To each his own I guess. Long as we keep the fire burning.

Glowing tubes have a really nice feeling about them, as long as you don't feel them! Alas, not all tubes glow, but the ones that do look great! 

How much of my enjoyment of tubes gear is due to the relaxed state the glow puts my mind in?

Probably all of it.

Tubes are neither Psycho nor Logical. But doggone, they sure sound good!

I knew some tubes in my life that needed therapy.

Give a wealty client who knows nothing advice, this is nice, but this is better. Client buys the other, far more expensive probably..

Why, it appeals to him in ways it does not to you.

I realized, auto, camera, audio, lawn mower ... I want stuff that I like each and every time I see it, remember the quest, the find, ....before I turn it on.

Seeing my tubes, yeah! Seeing the 'great' choices I made when I walk up to turn any part of the system on, OH Yeah!

^^^ What he said, +1 ^^^

Ultimately, it's the sound of the tube amp, the warm glow is just a bonus. 

Well, I like the glow of all my tubes, exception of 845. I like blacked out listening room, 845 ruins that vibe. As a result, had to purchase 845 special edition with black glass, now I can enjoy just like 300b amps.

Kind of like having a fire in the fireplace. 

I like stuff that makes noise, sparkels, blows up, smokes, catches fire, backs the screws out of sheetrock and in general is expensive.

As long as it's someone else's stuff and in someone else's neighborhood.

Please provide video.. :-)

Thankyou in advance for the cheap intertainment. It's funnier than watching Congress say "they paid the bills of the people".. Funniest thing I've ever seen..
I'm just wondering how many TRILLIONS dose it take to pay a Da%N bill, just one time. How much toilet paper can they actually buy?

Yeah, I love anything audio that glows.....   I've never had solid state gear that drew me in like good tube amps can.    Maybe I dont have the $$$ to play in that arena,   but I wouldn't trade my current stuff for anything less than a Dart Zeel.

Anything that affects your psych effects how you respond to music.  Plain and simple.