For delivering power to the gear of which it came with ? Yes , I would at minimum put the AC3 on the Ayre and go from there after you hear how much better it can get.
Are manufacturer AC cables good enough?
I have two PS Audio AC3 and two Pangea AC 14 cables I don't use. My thinking is that Ayre wouldn't supply cables that are inadequate for their components. Is that thinking flawed?
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I think manufacturers cables are sufficient enough to get the job done. Maybe it is cutting costs, or they have intentional designed their equipment to work well with bulk cable. But getting the last bit of performance is for happy tweakers something to look for. Some power supplies perform better with quality cables, or sometimes a better cable doesn't interfere as much with the rest of the cable salad behind you rack. Just test and listen. |
I use Ayre QX-5/20 digital hub, DX-5 DSD disc player, KX-5/20 preamp, and VX-5/20 amp with KEF Reference 1s. I suppose the AC 3 cables should go to the preamp and amp, the AC 14 cables to the digital hub and disc player. I buy used, aiming for 50% MSRP, still that setup cost a fair number of bucks. Surely Ayre wouldn’t comprise on power cables when they’re so obsessed with details like fully balanced, zero feedback, and stepped volume control. Nevertheless, I’ll try the cables. db |
usually people that buy Ayre are looking for more than adequate performance...good cables can be expensive, so why add to the cost of the component, when most customers prefer to select their own cabling...a source of endless contention, many endless threads for you to read...but you're lucky, you already have some cords to compare... |
Since your question was regarding PS Audio I thought I'd post this email I received: "One of the most common questions we get at PS Audio is, what cables should I buy? For years we've recommended one of our favorites, AudioQuest. Inevitably, the next question was, well, which AudioQuest cable? And we didn't have a good answer. So, I teamed up with Darren Myers and my dad, Paul, and we spent the last six months hand-curating a select series of AQ cables that sound best with each PS Audio component. The differences we heard were remarkable. And now, we can confidently tell you which cable is the perfect match. — |
After reading many opinions on PC's here, it seems like it all boils down to two factors: A cable needs to be of a sufficient gauge to feed your unit the required power to operate. Then what's left? What else can differentiate one power cord from another? From what I ascertain, whatever its inner and outer construction is, it seems many think it is one power cords ability to filter out impurities/noise coming in from the grid. Unlike other cables, I don't see how the delivery of electricity can act as a tone control other than the impact of the two items mentioned above. |
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My thinking is that Ayre wouldn't supply cables that are inadequate for their components. Is that thinking flawed? Yes. But its a common enough misconception. So don't feel too bad about it. Manufacturers build to a price point. For every tiny little part- cap, wire, resistor, every single part- from manufacturers cost to retail is multiplied many times over. Every little thing is scrutinized to get the cost down as much as possible and still deliver competitive performance. Let's say Ayre decides to include a power cord they are able to build for $50. Their cost. By the time it gets to retail that's a $500 item. Maybe you don't like that, or imagine it will only be $250, or even out of the goodness of their hearts you believe they will let it go for only their $50 cost. That's still added to the retail price. And everyone runs. The ones who know power cords matter run because they know they can find better. The ones who don't know power cords matter run because they aren't about to pay even $50 for one. Eventually everyone runs. Because, its not just Ayre doing this. You follow your logic and its not just Ayre, everyone is doing it, the market is flooded with these things and the resale value eventually falls to zero. The standard factory power cord is worthless. The baseline has been elevated only slightly, but at the cost of everyone having to pay more. The same logic by the way applies to every other component part in the box. Aren't the factory feet good enough? The manufacturer thinks so. What about the fuse? Why wouldn't the manufacturer include a shelf and a rack if it sounds better? Why would they even sell this to me, I live in an apartment, they should include a room and acoustic panels. On and on. Power cords are included as a courtesy, just like patch cords. You aren't meant to actually use them. They are meant to stay wrapped in the plastic bag in the box to be passed along with the owner's manual to the next guy. |
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No manufacturer is going to hobble the performance of a product by supplying a sub-par pc; after all, the goal is to sell the product, and they know people will check it out beforehand (or at least most people will). But... in the "lower" range of HEA, it's all about price point. So that's a factor. And as you move up to the "higher" range, manufacturers know that the buyer will almost certainly want to use their own flavor of pc, so what's the point of including an really expensive one. |
Then what's left? What else can differentiate one power cord from another?Well - it's a lot more complicated - to start with, I have found the following affects all cables - not just power cables... - Connectors - you need quality connectors with plated solid copper pins - my preference is silver plated Sonar Quest connectors - the IEC plugs clamp like a vice - Quality wires - either OCC Silver or OCC copper - the fewer strands the better, but solid copper or Solid silver wire will fracture if the cable is constantly moved - I now use 4 strands of solid 18 gauge OCC copper for amp power cables and one strand of 18 gauge solid silver wire for source components. I use a different type wire for neutral and ground wires. - Insulation that has a low Dielectric Constant (D.C.) - Teflon is too high at 2.1 - below 1.5 is best - I now use wire from VH Audio that has mains rated (600v) AirLok insulation with a D.C. less than 1.45 - A well designed cable geometry that mitigates cable related noise - I use a Helix geometry, but there are others to consider. If you want to see inside a well designed power cable take a look at the Inakustik web site.. https://www.in-akustik.de/en/cables-and-accessories/reference-selection/power-cables/ Nordost also build great cables, but they don’t share their design so openly I build my own cables, so I can control every aspect - and I build to the requirements of each component. One power cable does not necessarily work well for every component Hope that helps - Steve |
Think of the power cord that comes with your gear as a "courtesy" power cord, just to get you going. @millercarbon explained this very well above. Whether you are happy with the stock power cords or want to try "after market" power cord, that's all up to you. Have you every tried to call / email Ayre and ask? |
Power cords are included as a courtesy, just like patch cords. You aren't meant to actually use them. They are meant to stay wrapped in the plastic bag in the box to be passed along with the owner's manual to the next guy.This reminds of a "trick" that the owner of a hi-fi shop does all the time when selling "open box" (returned) items: Oh look... this was not even powered on ... the power cord is still in the plastic wrapper !! |
I've been in contact with folks at Ayre on serval occasions, including a scolding from Charles Hanson for placing a Bryston 10B high-pass filter between my (or maybe his) KX-5/20 and VX-5/20, but never asked about power cords. I think I understand the logic of millercarbon's argument, and it has altered my thinking about power cables a bit. Manufacturers do not supply interconnect nor speaker cables, so I rely on Cardas for those. Thanks for all the thoughtful replies. db |
Ayre doesn’t know how long your power cord will be or what you will plug it into. While the supplied cord is adequate for general use, many of us like to refine our systems to better serve our particular ears, tastes and listening environments. That’s not something Ayre could predetermine and I wouldn’t want them to invest heavily in a power cord when I may prefer a cord that takes the sound a little different direction. For them to attempt to supply a cable that is the ultimate match for you is no more possible then having them sell their amp with speakers that they think you would like best. |
I know this is heresy to true believers, but AC cables, if good quality, are all very similar. At minimum the $300-+++ you will spend can be put to vastly better use elsewhere. I have a very expensive, revealing system and find many claims to be bunk. Want good sound? Work on your room, setup, and source material. -curmudgeonly yours, G |
If a power cable changes the sound of the amp perhaps your "Ayre Conditioner power line RFI filter" is faulty. I see. So the conditioner has the magical property of making anything plugged into it sound the same. Power cords no longer matter. Interesting. Tell me more. So I could use lamp cord, or extension cord, it can't change the sound, it would sound just as good no matter what? There is nothing anyone can do after the conditioner that can affect the sound in any way. Not unless the conditioner is faulty. Is that right? Are you sure you have thought this one through? |
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Ha ha ha! The "religion of IEC cables" !!! You have the power cables that run in the walls from your power center to the AC outlet near your soundsystem: They are just plain straight parallel copper cables @ cents per feet... And you would get "a much better sound" placing those "magic IEC cables" between the AC Outlet and the equipment? We call that the placebo effect and it will cost you a premium!!! Not only that, equipment must be certified for EMI and the power supplies / casing must be designed for that. And it's not like power supplies are new technology... If your equipments are so "fragile" not to support a normal environment, it is simply by mean of a bad power supply design. In that case, change that badly designed equipment for something better, whatever the price you paid... |
Clearly there are those who cannot hear, or do not care, for the improvement quality wire can deliver. These people can save a lot of money. They should be happy. Why then are they so crabby? Could it be because they cannot hear? And spent a lot of money on sound they do not care for? That would do it. |
It is possible some makers include a quality power cord with their products? Nelson Pass has explained in past interviews that he uses his own supplied cords. Now I do not believe he uses Walmart interconnects. Was he was messing with the interviewer or did I misunderstand his response. Has anyone else viewed this same video? |
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The power cable included with your amp if perfectly adequate for your amp to work well. High end amp manufacturers accept the market forces that dictate having detachable power cords. From an engineering and cost perspective it is better to have a non-detachable power cord. One less interface for those electrons to deal with and the connectors are usually the most expensive part of a power cord. Additionally, many amp manufacturers simply don't buy into the power cord thing. The might not say it publicly, but they think it's a non-issue. |
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I started thinking - what other industry companies include required parts to make an item run and then turn around and blatantly tell you not to use them because they’re crap? Power cords have to be at least good enough so they don’t catch fire if you use them, so that sets the bar at a certain level. I’ve used my Klein Tools voltage tester on my Pangea cords and get no reading, but on the stock cords I do, so is that any indication of a better performing cord? I don't know. Here’s the kicker: my Power Plant itself gives a reading as well because of the vents, so does that make the cord "performance" a moot point? A second point is, as a company selling high end equipment, would you sweat the details of creating a quality product and then include a power cord that would degrade the performance of your product? No matter how much exotic companies want you to believe, you don't need expensive materials or pixie dust to make a well performing cord, so why would you chance a lot of returns or bad reviews because you cheaped out on the cord. |
bikerbw I started thinking ...Good idea! ... what other industry companies include required parts to make an item run and then turn around and blatantly tell you not to use them because they’re crap?None. The audio industry doesn't do this, either. If you're aware of any manufacturer who suggests its power cords are crap, will you please cite a reference? |
My experience aligns with Tante—the better the power supply design the less important the power cable. I found this out trying different cords with my LTA Ultralinear. It sounded just as awesome with the stock cord as several megabuck cords. David Berning began his work as a power supply designer and his are some of the best in the business. |