Are manufacturer AC cables good enough?

bikerbw

I started thinking ...

Good idea!

... what other industry companies include required parts to make an item run and then turn around and blatantly tell you not to use them because they’re crap?

None. The audio industry doesn't do this, either. If you're aware of any manufacturer who suggests its power cords are crap, will you please cite a reference?

jbmays

Can someone please help me through the following line of reasoning:
AC current travels 2-3 miles from a transfer station at 220 volts ...

No, that's not at all how power is distributed, but at voltages that measure in the many kVs, probably 4,800 kV minimum.

turnbowm

Sorry, but anecdotal evidence doesn't prove anything.

It's true that even abundant empirical evidence is not by itself proof. But this is a hobbyist's group, so this wouldn't be the place to expect participants to be conducting the kind of scientific testing you probably prefer. Regardless, it's simply false to claim that "there is no evidence." There's tons of it. If it doesn't suit you, you're free to go collect your own. If you do, please share the results with us.

djones51

When logic and science fail you what's left? Oh yeah, your system is junk and you're deaf.

Ironically, that statement is a non-sequitur, a logical fallacy.

heaudio123

Anyone who advocates for sited tests, or advocates against blind tests, can be simply ignored. Their ignorance w.r.t. testing of anything involving human perception is too limited to make their opinion of use or they have an agenda that again makes their communication of no value.

That’s a remarkable statement from someone here who has cultivated the air of a scientist. Real scientists don’t allow prejudice or bias to dismiss data; they look at the data, then research and test it.

Very few people in this forum post results of blind tests, so you must find this forum pretty useless. It makes me wonder why you’re here, although I think I have a pretty good idea.

heaudio123

Why am I here cleeds? Partially Covid boredom, still working lots, but not in nearly as many meetings, and the work day never really ends ...

I didn't ask why you're here, but I respect the candor in your explanation.

... that is exactly what real scientists do. They quickly dismiss data that is not collected in a repeatable at least somewhat rigourous manner, they dismiss experiments that make no attempt to control for variable, etc.

Don't be silly. Real scientists actually conduct their own tests. They don't dismiss every listener's casual account with a wave of the hand while muttering about the lack scientific control yet making no effort to conduct their own inquiry, to their own standards. (To be fair, that may not fully apply to you, because I saw another post you made where you suggested acquiring some speakers to test.)

... maybe I am just here as a marketing exercise cleeds, you never know do you.

Oh no, you do sometimes know, and it's part of separating the wheat from the chaff on Audiogon. There are many people here who post under their real identities. And there are many others who are otherwise known, such as everyone buys and sells on this site. Not everyone is hunched anonymously over their keyboard.

Why are you here?

It's a hobby. I've been into music and electronics for as long as I can remember, and got into high end audio in the late '70s. I've been active on various sites going all the way back to Usenet and r.a.h-e., always under the same moniker. As Casey said, "You could look it up."

thyname

... In the meantime not one credible explanation has emerged as to why the last 2 metres of electrical cabling should matter exponentially more than the previous possible kilometres.

Logical fallacy alert, straw man argument. I don't recall anyone here claiming exponential improvement.

nsgarch

You need  to "lift" (disconnect) the ground at the EQUIPMENT end of the stock cord ... cut off the IEC plug at the equipment end of the cord and install a new IEC plug with only the hot (black) and neutral (white) conductors connected ... The ground conductor (green) should be cut a little short of the new IEC plug and not connected.  You have just turned a stock power cord into a respectable audiophile power cord ...

Very bad advice. You have just created a safety hazard. Disconnecting safety grounds is not the remedy for things such as ground loops or AC noise.

cd318

Since there is no evidence, none at all, (not a sausage, not even the smell of pork - plenty of snake oil aroma if you like) that expensive power cables do anything that the manufacturer supplier ones can’t, it’s time to ...

There is abundant evidence that "expensive power cables" can make a difference - a virtual mountain of it! There are countless testimonials in print, online and in real life from users that have first-hand experience. Indeed, premium power cables are a distinct niche within the audio and audio cable industries.

Of course, much of the abundant evidence isn’t the kind of evidence you seem to prefer, which is fine. But to pretend that "there is no evidence" is really disingenuous.

turnbowm

I don't expect hobbyists to be conducting scientific tests but think it's NOT unreasonable for PC manufacturers to publish test results supporting their claims. Is that too much to ask?

There are companies such as Wireworld that have conducted blind tests - WW even developed its own comparator so you can listen blind to your heart's content, and then decide for yourself. Is that too much to ask?

kozka

A typical thread on audio forums where exotic power cords, exotic speaker cables, interconnects, vibration pads/puck(?) are dwelled upon consists of:

1.snake oil salesman en force...best markups for them
2.suckers who spent money on those, also en force...now they are looking for an atonement
3.a very small group of people with science/engineering background who know..

You forgot the fourth group: Those who’ve actually listened, conducted their own tests, and reached their own independent conclusions.

I don’t see much evidence that there are many here who are in your #3 group. That’s because many of those who would pretend to belong to that group either dismiss mountains of evidence with a wave of the hand or - just as often - simply pretend that the evidence doesn’t exist.

heaudio

I made the claim that SR and others claim to do double blind tests but none of them to my knowledge had done a properly administered double blind test in public ...

So what? Who cares?

I've been a participant in a few double-blind listening tests. They were interesting. The results were never intended for publication. Who cares? What really matters is the result of your own evaluations.

geoffkait

Noone said blind tests are irrelevant. You’re putting words in my mouth. What I said is they don’t mean anything. They only mean something when there is a preponderance of evidence from many tests, independent from each other

That’s essentially true. And that’s why - if you’re among those who believe blind testing is the best way to evaluate an audio component - the only single blind test results that are really important are the results of your own test.

It’s really difficult to take seriously those who incessantly call for blind testing to be done by others.