With my near SOTA set up in a custom built listening room, with 61,100 CDs/LPs/78s/R2R recordings, the quality of the sonics vary but have improved to such an extent that fewer than 10% of my recordings sound less than good and enjoyable. Even among those drenched in reverb or poorly miked/mixed or dating back to 1900, there is musical enjoyment to be found. I've disposed of 18,000 records and still have to cull another 10,000 (for performance reasons). It is shocking how much fun and enjoyment there is throughout my collection. For over 60 years I also determined based on lesser equipment what was great, not so great, okay and truly awful to listen to. Now, it is rare to find an awful sounding recording in my collection. A great audio system in a decent room will provide an endless abundance of musical and sonic pleasure (I don't stream much as 85% of streaming quality is inferior to my recordings and maybe 50% unavailable to stream).
And the biggest influence on sound quality is...
The quality of the recording itself.
Then the room, the setup, the speakers, and lastly the front end.
I've got recordings that make my system sound horrible, and I've got recordings that make my system sound absolutely wonderful.
None of the gear changes have had that much impact on sound quality.
There is a reason why many speaker designers test their products in anechoic chambers. Doing so eliminates the effects of the vagaries encountered in rooms in which the speakers may be used. On the other hand, some designers try to make speakers that are "room friendly," IMHO an impossible objective. There are too many variables, with rooms of all shapes and sizes, containing reflective and absorbing surfaces, and furnishings of all kinds. So what is an audiophile to do? First, have a room that your significant other allows you to take over. Then treat the crap out of it! I have a 25X15x9.5’ room that I have treated with sound-absorbing panels, on walls, and ceiling. I am able to do this on three walls and the ceiling. The 4th wall is partially taken up by a brick fireplace, so no panels there. However, there are panels on both sides of the bricks. The floor is tile, covered in substantial part by a rug with a layer of padding beneath it. The panels went up a bit at a time. Each time I added more, I could hear performance changes, always for the better. Naturally, I kept adding more panels. In my room, I can hear changes when about six of the 1-foot square panels I used are added. Less than that, I can’t discern much difference. It makes perfect sense. The panels make the room less reflective and quieter. The quiet is measurable with a good sound pressure meter. More quiet allows audibly greater detail and improved dynamics. For those with the funds, I recommend that you have your room treated professionally. But it can also be a DIY project for those so inclined and capable. My current setup includes Tekton Double Impact speakers and a pair of their self-powered 4-10 woofers, a Muzishare R100 805 integrated Single-ended amp (into which I’ve poured a lot of $$$ for tube upgrades and performed an internal output capacitor bypass - a potential subject for another discussion), the Audiolab 9000 CD transport, and the Gustard R26 (ladder) DAC. The transport and DAC are powered by a battery power supply (a nice improvement that can be had for far less than expensive power cables and filters). The speaker cables are the extraordinary Wireworld Eclipse 10. I use two pair since my speakers are bi-ampable. (As a major speaker cable skeptic, I have been amazed by the changes wrought by these cables. I run 20-foot lengths.) Sitting idle are my upgraded Parasound JC2 preamp and A21 amp, and a speaker system comprised of rare, classic Altec drivers in expensive Japanese-built cabinets, with German-built horns atop for frequencies above 400 HZ. (All else being equal, I am spoiled by sensitive speakers). |
Being present for the music. I find this most influence (for me) is to be able to chill out and not listen with the "looking for imperfection" mindset I cannot seem to escape at times, and instead just turn the lights low, lower the needle (or whatever I may be using), and exhale. It’s a big ask. Like for me zeroing in awe on a Ron Carter bass line or Elvin Jones brush wondering right in that moment, hmmm, perhaps there is a way I should lift the needle and play my other copy, search another master to stream, swap a cable, turn off all appliances, move those home made bass traps, move my paintings to other places on the wall. Just not then. On a more practical front, the master bar none.
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BTW, taming a bad room may not require expensive and non-homelike room treatments. In overly reflective rooms (more common than overly damped ones), there are many steps one can make to control those reflections. Rugs, shades & drapes, soft furnishings, textile art. David Wilson told me long ago that shelved books and records make some of the best acoustic treatments. Bass response varies tremendously around a room due to the effects of standing waves. Sometimes simply moving one's listening position a couple of feet in one direction or another can turn anemic bass into rich tuneful bass (or go beyond into flatulance). While electronic room correction systems like Dirac can make a big difference, one is almost always better off first minimizing the sonic elements that need correcting. |
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Approximately 50% of the sound that reaches your ears in a residential sized room is from room reflections. I've heard systems comprised of nothing but superb quality, well matched components sound horrible in bad rooms. And systems composed of mediocre components sound engagingly musical in good ones. All depending on the room and setup (positioning of speakers & listeners). Naturally some recordings are disasters that sound bad regardless of anything else, but in a good room can still deliver a taste of the artists. If your goal is to hear performances where you get a real sense of the performers & instruments, deal with the room first. |
Disregarding the quality of the recording and considering some people have no choice on the room, strictly speaking equipment wise, I have to go with the amplifier. I have found just playing around and substituting different components in a system that a very high quality amplifier will make even some of the worse speakers sound so much better at least to their dynamic and frequency limits. |
Brain! Can't say how many times I've just been driving down the road listening to the mediocre system in my pickup truck enjoying the heck out of music. Ear/brain adjusts to quality. That's not to say audio quality isn't enjoyable. But I would hope most folks wouldn't turn off a mediocre radio if the tunes were good! |
1. Attitude. I've been moved to tears listening to music on a cheap transistor radio. |
One thing that we cannot fix is the quality of a recording, and I would, perhaps, argue that a good system might make a bad recording sound worse than a system with certain limitations (e.g. a soft system top end taming a hard recording). Also, my ability to optimize my listening room is very limited as it is my Living Room, and has to function as such. I think it is not too bad, it is a large room, about 20x36. My speakers are 10 feet from the back wall, my listening couch 12 feet from the speakers. The usual living room furniture,with heavy curtains that can cover the windows. Therefore, I'll offer up thoughts on relative importance of components in the goal of reproducing excellent recordings optimally. The hardest things for a manufacturer to get right are probably the mechanical components: viz. the speakers and turntable/cartridge combination. Then to my mind the DAC is critical. If we compare digital ca. 1985 and 40 years on we are living in a different world. Pre-amp and Power Amp obviously affect the sound, but, after a certain performance level, at a second order of sound quality differences - and often in subtle ways. Cables do have different effects on the sound, but, after again, after a certain level of performance, the difference between well engineered cables is (to my elderly ears) very subtle. Without really thinking this through my own components reflect, perhaps unconsciously, my thoughts expressed above. My pre ($3.5k LA4) and pa ($5k XA25) or my home brew 6SN7 300B balanced($5k) are dwarfed by the $55-60k on DAC and Speakers. Replacing my pretty good Audio Physic Virgos with the outstanding Rockport Atrias was startling, then replacing the good Esoteric X-03SE with the K-01xs was another significant level of improvement. I do admit I'm contemplating upgrading the DAC to the K-01XD. I'm hoping I can find a dealer where I can take my existing unit and compare with the XD.
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@troutstreamnm , I have often just threaded a couple of AN fittings together and made a (to borrow from you) makeshift pipe with a small bowl, and nirvana always followed. |
Tom, Happy Friday! You don’t have enough room treatment.. ; ) Kidding aside, with that marvelous system I’m certain you are getting exceptional sound. Your experience with aweful recordings sounding awful, and great ones sound great, surely is a sign of a transparent system faithfully reproducing whatever recordings you play? |
I have a slightly different take. First, the best enhancement to SQ is a bong hit of some good hybrid. Never fails! But at this stage, having heard my classic rock a million times, I find myself listening to a lot of bootlegs, especially Led Zeppelin, my favorite rock group. The boots vary in quality from soundboard, near commercial quality, to not so good audience tapes from the '70's. I find that my current system makes everything sound better, i.e., well-recorded music sounds fantastic and poorly recorded music still sounds good although the difference in SQ is obvious. So I think that some systems are so resolving that unless something is well-recorded, it sounds like crap. I prefer a system that is smoother . . . not that detail is lost, but sounds smoother. My ARC/Pass combo with Wilson Sabrina X speakers, an MSB DAC and a loom of Shunyata Sigma cables and Shunyata Everest, hit that sweet spot! |
I see the point and can't disagree. Once a system has good, revealing speakers, the impact of changing the front end can really change the listeners experience. And I forgot about the recording. Even on a mid-fi system, a poor recording or poor engineering of a recording can annihilate the music. And the better the audio equipment, the worse that thing will sound for sure. I guess if someone has a lousy recording of music they really like they could scout around for an old Radio Shack stereo.
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Besides quality of the recording , I feel the quality ofthe front end is a bit more important then the Loudspeakers , for once the audio signal is converted good or bad it cannot be improved downstream, you only get one chance to define its sound character. I have been experimenting with some pretty good dacs. that have. Changed the norm in what to expect and just under $9 k retail ,that can stay with dacs that are 50% more expensive ,hint from Europe. |
The last thing I changed. (if I got it right) Seriously, though, I'd have to say speakers. Every time I change speakers the system gets VERY noticeably different. I've made small, to the extent I can, modifications in the room and there is impact. But admittedly I'm limited. Bride has nixed taking out the wall and the stairs on the other side of it. Also, won't let me blow out the bedroom upstairs so we can have a higher ceiling in the listening area. MAN! Amps have peeled back layers, brought more speed and clarity and with them nuance. So have wires/cables. The Holo DAC was both subtle and powerful. The Townsend speaker bases were the biggest surprise. They very noticeably impacted the treble, ion a good way! Still don't understand that. Are speakers the most important thing? I don't know. But I'll say, in most normal situations, the speakers have the biggest impact. |
I appreciate 2psyop's mention of hearing aids. Many of us (me) have compromised hearing associated with aging. I have good HAs, a good small room system, and a very good desktop setup. I almost never use HAs when I'm listening to either system. I've found HAs to be fatiguing. Without them I find that a short period of listening at low/moderate levels with small adjustments in volume until I get that just right combination of detail and air without going too loud -- which is also a problem for the hearing impaired -- puts me in a zone where I forget about my hearing and enjoy the music. With near-field listening (2-3 feet) the room doesn't have much effect. In a small room at moderate volumes the room comes into play, but less than in a large room that may not have been designed for good acoustics. With live music the room is everything. I go to a lot of concerts in Sun City Roseville , CA where I live. The acoustics are terrible but the performances are usually entertaining but I wouldn't want to reproduce any of those acts through my system no matter how good the performance. (Rudy Van Gelder usually isn't on hand.) The finest hall I ever heard was built sometime around 1700 in Prague. It is where Mozart debuted "Don Giovanni" and where parts of the film "Amadeus" was filmed. In 2017 I attended a concert there. It is oval-shaped, perhaps 75' x 50', or perhaps somewhat larger. It has a shallow dome with clerestory windows that can be opened as I recall. The sound of the piano and chamber pieces I heard was simply glorious. If I had such a room I believe I could be content with a Bose radio, but I reckon even my desktop system's value would increase by a factor 100 fold. I hope some well-heeled audiophile somewhere can replicate that room in one of his estate's. |
Your system, the whole thing, including the space you're in, is essentially a transcription device. The synergy there, e.g. the speakers to the space, is something you can optimize. There is basically nothing you can do about the stuff you are transcribing, maybe outside of cleaning a record. There are bad recordings of historical importance that can still be enjoyed and listened to, if you're into that, but otherwise you can go more for audiophile quality stuff. I can go either way, but as time passes I find myself more irritated by the simple placement of instruments and the failure of the recording engineer. As for yourself, the synergy of your equipment is more essential than any individual item, and you're likely not going to get there anywhere near overnight (although it's fun to talk about). |
I think it’s 75% speakers & how they interact w/ the room. You can have a really good listening room, top quality front end ( analog or digital), amps/ preamps, cables etc but if your speakers aren’t good or at least really to your liking, you won’t be happy w/ the sound. Conversely, if you have really good speakers that you enjoy, then even w/ a decent room & mid tier all else, the sound will be good & very listenable. Could it be better? Sure but at least you’ve got a system that pleases you. This is not so in the first scenario. |
I liked what Eurorack said about the room. if I have the perfect room and my source cannot extract all the information from the perfect recording, does the room matter? I put my money into the best source component I can afford. Thats my opinion, but that’s usually meaningless |
One question is, "What, overall, determines sound quality?". A different, but closely related question is, "What, under my control, determines sound quality?". OP tomcarr suggests the importance of the room. Interestingly, the room is controllable by us in varying degrees. Some listeners may move the system from floor to floor, room to room, some are constrained to one room (but may adjust room treatments), others are confined to one room they can't do much about, and still others have one room and are told exactly where and only where the speakers may be placed. So yeah. Two different questions, and "room control" floats between the two. Enjoy.
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@mapman Excellent point about synergy with matching components. I'm acutely aware of its value that can make or break a system but failed to mention it. Thank you for bringing it up. Very important point. |
So my system had reasonable components and cables and I had albums that sounded very good and others that sounded less than stellar. Some pressings sounded well engineered and pressed whilst others seemed to lack the same amount of finesse. I embarked upon a journey of discovery with my cables and over the years, with the introduction of better cables, the system was refined way beyond my expectations. And, to my delight, the recordings that previously seemed to lack finesse actually came to life, providing a listening experience the equaled the best pressings I had. My components are "modest" , compared to others in the market, but the cables are among the best out there. Unfortunately, the cables are DIY, but Hijiri is one of a few brands that can achieve "Audio Nivana" So take a look at your cables, they do make a noticeable improvement
Regards, steve |
@tomcarr you covered most of the ones that really matter a lot. I’d add the proper technical integration of components when dealing with separate as opposed to integrated components like impedance matching and also that amp is a good match to drive speakers to their max. Poor matching and integration of components can leave a lot of performance on the table. This is a very common snafu that many may not pay as much attention to as they should. Of course in the end it has to sound good to your ears specifically and that can be a very subjective thing to determine. After that its mostly a tweak here and there perhaps. Modern DSP technology is your friend when it comes to getting that sound just right once you have crossed all the Ts and dotted all the Is in assembling and setting up your gear well. The icing on the cake!
The other things are all significantly big but room acoustics always plays a big role in how things sound (pretty much by definition) and is typically the thing you have the least control over.
Recordings are what they are. You have absolutely no control over that. You can only attempt to experience the works of others as provided as best possible. Fun fun fun!!!
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+1 @knotscott I took your question to mean building a system, so I would answer absolutely the speakers and the speakers........ With the room a close second. Regards, barts
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