@yoyoyaya We're peas in a pod. Nice to meet you.
I'd like to share one more observation if I may. Once a musician achieves some degree of notoriety, much of what you see on stage has been given to him by smart marketeers in order to promote their product.
I believe the same is true for consumer gear a really famous guy, say, like Rick Rubin would own, I'm sure his high end system was at best sold to him at cost and most probably way less. Hell, I'd give Rick Rubin a really nice system if I could hang with him for a few days. What musician with the means wouldn't???
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Andrea Bocelli listens to Franco Serblin (SF)
Bocelli's letter to Franco
Dearest Mr. Serblin,
I am sitting in front of the speakers and, whilst listening to my album... I felt the need to sit down in front of the computer to write and congratulate you for the quality of these speakers and the pleasure they give me whilst listening. Even my voice seems warmer and more beautiful!! A real home theatre, where the singer is right there, in front of you. ...many congratulations for "a possession for ever"
Andrea Bocelli.
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vinylvalet, I agree entirely with you. I am also a songwriter/musician and part time recording engineer. Thankfully, I can switch off the deconstructive part of my musical brain when I'm listening to the hi fi. Because I spend so much time writing, playing and recording, I actually find it a relief to just listen to music, without having to do the other stuff. My income is not reliant on anything to do with the recording/performance side of music so the hi fi is funded from other work.
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@dgluke WTF?
@yoyoyaya I agree. Fortunately I can turn off my musician brain and turn on my music lover brain. But then, I'm not a great musician; I have to work very hard at it. My friends that are what I consider "real musicians" confound and amaze me with their talent and ability. Yes, none can afford much of anything and due to the constant financial tension, most are divorced. Very sad to see such supremely talented folks suffer so much.
But there are exceptions. We have an internationally respected, local classical saxophone player. No commonly used in the genre. I'm used to jazz sax. The tone this guy gets is unworldly, unlike anything I've ever heard. His daughter is equally talented and respected. He was rewarded five stars for both sound quality and performance in an Absolute Sound CD review. He has a SOTA, purpose built listening room with the largest Magnapans and TOTL Bryston monos. A clear exception to most musicians. After hearing active ATC speakers, he would like to sell the Magnapans and Bryston. That was just before the pandemic. I don't know if he ever made the switch, probably because his income plummeted at the time.
I think this simple question will separate musicians from music lovers; what do you do when you have some spare time to relax? The musician will pick up an instrument. The music lover will listen to an album. Although I'm both, I always end up in my favorite listening chair. I'm guessing it's why I'm only a mediocre musician compared to my professional friends. So, that may be one reason you usually see a very low cost stereo in a musicians home. Between gigging, practicing and making ends meet, there is not much time to listen. Also, as an engineer, when I got home from work, the last thing I wanted to do is anything to do with engineering. Perhaps many musicians get home and need a break from music so they watch TV or something completely non-musical.
Great thread and thanks for the many thoughtful responses.
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Musicians and recording engineers tend to listen to music deconstructively. It's a quite different way of listening which doesn't put a premium on a lot of qualities valued by audiophiles. That plus the fact that music as a profession is, with exceptions, not a lucrative pursuit tends not to make musicians audiophiles - IMO.
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@bvdiman - I have to laugh because we just finished rebuilding and upgrading an old FM Acoustic power amplifier yesterday. Wow did it sound good. Right up there with the old HK XX power amplifier as two of the best SS amps I have ever heard.
We also just finished adding a few chokes to our 6SN7 preamplifier and we were listening to Al DiMeola Kiss my Axe. It was so natural and dynamic we were like little kids in a candy store. We were saying that we should have Al come over to have a listen!
I have been playing guitar for over 40 years. Never met a musician who had a system worth anything. I do know a few who have investments in their equipment and recording studios though.
Happy Listening.
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My ATC 40As also sound great. In fact phenomenal. The question simple enough is how many commenting about the ATC speakers actually own them? That's all. Thanks |
@dgluke
Thank you for that insightful post.
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So many ignorant, contradictory incorrect suppositions, self satisfying assumptions and so few matches. It’s sickening, really. It’s sickening, really. Weighed against reality, they fall far short of the individualism present in meaningful performing arts and the varied types of humans that occupy that space. And the outright psychosis admitted to here has the second hand embarrassment clowns all trying to cram into a tiny I suppose car that’s on fire and hurtling towards oblivion.
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The cobbler's children's shoes.
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Any mention of ATC usually brings up a lot of typical US audiophile forum nonsense from folks that have never had a proper demonstration of current product.
I'm a musician and I own ATC active monitors in my studio and ATC active tower speakers in my main listening room.
Ad copy or call it what you will, here's the official list:
ATC Client List
On the other hand, I know plenty of musicians that are as happy as can be listening to whatever they can afford, usually stuff that would make most of us get the heebie jeebies. And yes, that's the vast majority. Besides, most professional musicians these day are having a hard time meeting basic needs much less even a moderately priced stereo system. My older son is one of them.
Please keep in mind, those in the audience are hearing a completely different thing than the musicians playing on the stage. Live recordings are never made from the musicians perspective. I know several that think all my systems sound strange. One does this weird cupping thing around his ears, finally locks the hands in position and says, "now it sound like live music". I have no idea what't going on with him but I'm sure this perspective thing many have something to do with it.
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I can't keep my finger shut on Mr. Douglas's "How stars listen to music:" article.
3 of the 13 acknowledges the speakers. 4th clearly shows both of them. But not mentioned.
"Frederick Douglass is the senior home entertainment expert and focused on reviews. His specialities are: technology and home theatre systems." Not so much into Speakers of a system..
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"They probably listen much more to the notes than the sound of the instruments."
Speaking for myself, I am very aware of every Note and Sound that is coming from Me. As well as the notes and sounds coming from others in the band or orchestra.
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The OP asked: "What does Wynton Marsalis listen to?".
For speakers the answer is Tetra.
Full disclosure, for years I was the only ATC dealer in California.
Now, retired, I consult in marketing for Tetra Speakers ( dot com).
It is quite true that many top artists, major studios and the world's greatest concert halls use ATC powered speakers. Artists mentioned and many more.
In studios and concert halls, accurate presentation of the sound recorded and amplified is vital. +1 "extremely dynamic, supremely accurate".
However, even though many artists want to experience music in their homes as they have in the studio, that sound is not necessarily what is desired in the home.
+1 "professional studio monitors and that ilk have a different set of design parameters entirely. Near field and hear all the details."
I first became aware of Tetra speakers when I fortunately got a pair of their mid line 506 speakers. I heard from those speakers what I have never heard from ATC or any speaker in 50 years: shockingly realistic music. And when I got a pair of Tetra's entry level speakers, the 120Us, they sounded as real as the 506s just on a smaller scale.
And when I went to their website I saw the rave comments of many of the world's greatest artists. They all are dedicated and proud Tetra owners. From Herbie Hancock to Ron Carter to Dave Holland to Keith Richards, etc., etc.. Herbie has 6 pair and Keith takes a pair on tour.
Some may say, what do artists know of what is possible in High End Audio?
Tetra artists say that their Tetras sound like the hear themselves on stage.
I say, who would know better?
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My experience is that self-designated audiophiles are extremely rare in the general population. I would expect the same amongst professional musicians. Classical or other acoustic music might on the whole be a bit more picky about accurate reproduction of the instruments with which they are most familiar.
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Jay Z: Nagra and Devore O96
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Jimi Paige has been photographed using a Luxman preamp with McIntosh amp.
McCartney has two Garrard turntables in his listening room per photos.
Marvin Gaye was photographed with Mac amp, Thorens turntable, and a Teac reel-to-reel.
Magic Johnson was a DJ at Michigan State. When he made money in the NBA he had a pretty sweet system, but I don't recall what the gear was at this time.
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My ATC's don't sound "bad". Unless "bad" really means, "extremely dynamic, supremely accurate, and riotously fun"!
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Neil Young: I have a lot of McIntosh equipment that I use for listening. My studio is full of different stuff, Tannoy and an old pair of Altec [Lansing] speakers with Mac 275s running them. It’s the old Voice of the Theater speakers. They’re ridiculous [laughs]. Also some reel-to-reel gear.
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Bob Weir McIntosh, Neil Young McIntosh and Tannoy…..just from what I know
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In 30 years of providing sample cassettes for many well-respected artists, the most common complaint was "There's something wrong with your recording. The entire concert is sharp/flat." The problem was, of course, their not very good cassette machine running either fast or slow.
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Just a note, professional studio monitors and that ilk have a different set of design parameters entirely. Near field and hear all the details.
A novice audiophile is frequently seduced by details and slam at the expense of musicality.
More experienced audiophiles tend to become more engaged with all aspects of the recreated sound… rhythm and pace / musicality and proportion around the different characteristics of sound (detail / bass / slam).
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My ATC's sound GREAT in my house! I did pick the SCM35's over the 20's when I bought them, thinking they presented a richer, more lifelike presentation with equally good imaging.
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@yogiboy
I have heard this as well and was also told that us individuals would hate the sound from these speakers in our systems. Be aware that they are listening to raw single tracks of individual instruments. We are listening to a mixed result of those tracks and instruments. Most ATC monitors in a home system will sound bad. It will reveal the mix and not sound what we are use to. The end product we get is mixed to try and account for every type of media or system it could be played on. This final mix is a huge compromise that ATC monitors will reveal..
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Agree with @pesky_wabbit
"generally, whatever is at hand, they tend to have an ability to hear through the shortcomings of very ordinary systems explain nuances in performances that most people would fail to detect"
I’m pretty sure most committed musicians learn early on to simply take all their musical cues from life, not the recording. For them, that’s the wellspring of its creation: the sheer, in-person Sound of it...live sound from live instruments...I don’t think it could be any other way for them really - in their work they always have to consider how their music sounds live first. No point in relying on a facsimile to recreate the real thing when you’ve already got the real thing.
So when they’re listening to a rig, for them practically speaking it’s not much more than a placeholder, an index, but in their own heads it’s their musical ’memory’ of a live event or sound that’s being accessed. They might think of the rig as more just a useful tool for composition than for appreciation I think.
Again, in their work, it’s their associative memory of live musical sound itself that is their primary stock in trade.
The musicians are the flip side of the audiophile experience. The pro guys are the go-between.
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From what I've read musicians in general don't seem to be into hifi. They probably listen much more to the notes than the sound of the instruments.
But does anyone know what Neil Young listens to?
He seems to be interested in hifi and sound quality.
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Perhaps I missed it but no one has mentioned the obvious…
Aside from the few musicians who don’t care, most I’ve known ( I’m a lousy drummer lol ) take care of the room acoustics in their instrument (playing) rooms….
It’s just not feasible not to…A drum set for instance without any room treatment? A bass guitar or piano?
IME most instruments like this are quite loud and sound like hell in an untreated typical residential room (aside from arena size).
The factor of “diminishing returns” kicks in…
the difference between mid-fi vs. hi-fi electronic equipment shrinks a lot!
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I simply love ‘confirmation bias’ in full swing. The confusion and obfuscation created is wonderfully entertaining if not troubling.
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Coming up with a list of ATC speaker owners (really?) representing the 0.01% of musicians who are wealthy is meaningless. Most (not all) professional musicians I have known over the years are using gear they bought 40 years ago, or had handed down to them by a friend or family member. Most pro musicians struggle to make ends meet these days, and audiophile systems are not even on their radar.
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Can any musician who has been playing rock music for the past 40 years still hear? I doubt very much if Jimmy Page can detect the nuance of a first class speaker? Just a thought.
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Reads like ad copy. 😊
ATC speakers !!
Beck, Kate Bush, David Gilmour, Mark Knopfler, Diana Krall, Ray LaMontagne, Tom Petty, Sting, Roger Waters, and Jack White. These world-famous artists are just a handful of the household-name musicians that listen with ATC. Perhaps they’re taking a page from many of the most in-demand engineers and producers that depend on ATC to create timeless works of art. Industry professionals such as Michael Bishop, T Bone Burnett, James Guthrie, Bob Ludwig, Gavin Lurssen, Max Martin, George Massenburg, Alan Moulder, Shawn Murphy, and Fred Vogler all rely on ATC to hear every last detail.
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A bottomless hobby, but not music. I know because they told me so.
They all told you?
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@bigtex22 GREAT post! I've often wondered this same thing.
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I sold HiFi in the Boston area all my career, and members of the local orchestras and chamber groups were customers. As a group they didn't buy really high priced gear, but listened for tonal naturalness. I sold them KEF, Mirage, a/d/s/, and Snell speakers in those days. These people have the ultimate playback systems without paying a dime...the ability to read the sheet music and "hear" the score in their minds! I also sold to some famous rock bands, like members of J. Geils...they had more dough, but I wasn't in a real high end shop, so they'd buy stacks of Nakamichi separates and KEF Reference or big a/d/s/ monitors.
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Joanna Newsom? Really? I tried to listen to her a few times and had to tag out about 45 seconds in each time. I've come to automatically discount the opinions of any music reviewer that gushes all over her stuff.
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Well... back in the 70's and 80's when I sold Audio in retail, musicians notoriously had the Best taste in Music and the Worst taste in equipment. Rather disappointing...
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Having found a virtual tour of the Louis Armstrong house, I was able to get a better look at his equipment. The preamp appears to be a Marantz 7T and the tuner is probably whatever was offered at the time as a mate to the preamp. One of Tandbergs was a player only. He died in 1971, so solid state equipment of any quality was only around for a few years. He appeared to have a automatic changer to play LP's, what kind is a mystery to me.
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I not long ago saw a vintage photo of Louis Armstrong in his home studio listening to what appeared to be a pair of Tandberg 64X tape decks, a Marantz 7C preamp and 10B tuner. The power amp(s) were obscured, but it's a safe bet it/they were Marantz as well.
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Most serious musicians don't make enough money for a hobby like audio and they have to spend bucks on their instruments and the like. I've done decades as a "working musician" (along with some other far more lucrative things which have funded my gear issues and retirement status) and it's amazing how utterly clueless some talented players are regarding audio, including pro sound, and hey...that's just fine...I'll take care of it no problemo...However, I have met a few in my live sound mixing world (my other music related gig) who are audio geeks and those are some serious pros. Rare, but as I've said before, they're about the same percentage as regular people. And that's a minority.
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generally, whatever is at hand, they tend to have an ability to hear through the shortcomings of very ordinary systems explain nuances in performances that most people would fail to detect
makes you wonder sometimes..
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All the musicians I know and have known are/were indifferent to audiophile notions of "high fidelity." They inhabit the world of actual music, not our world of sound reproduction. A different realm. Audiophiles encourage one another to "enjoy the music!," but that's delusional. All we have are records and tapes and discs and and digital simulacra from storage media involving dozens of transductions and no musical instrument in sight. A bottomless hobby, but not music. I know because they told me so.
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I set up decent systems for the the Airmen of Note bari player Don New and for a reed player friend who played all of the major hotel/casinos in the 60s. They both had dismal setups. That’s my foray into that world. I’m sure it varies.
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Joanna Newsom. She stated in one of her rare interviews that she has a "tube-based system with decent speakers",(didn’t advertise any brand names), and finds it funny that her actor husband, (Andy whatever), likes to walk around the house with his ear buds blasting. I read this interview around the time of her release of "Divers." Can’t find the link right now. BTW, ALL of Joanna’s albums have been recorded in old school analog. Go get them.
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I don't know about musicians but the studious I have been in are filled with Bryston components.
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Oh weir has Macintosh gear. Dan Rather interviewed him in front of the rack. It sure about the speakers though.
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Wilson speakers tend to be favored by musicians. Note the above post. Possibly one of the reasons I like mine. Musicians ears are like most, they want to hear what sounds good… to them. The reference point might be a little different, but the goal is the same.
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This brings up a fundamental difference--do you listen for the emotional experience that music evokes, or to hear the detail of the janitor sweeping in the room next to the studio ;-) Now it is not that simple but music over a car radio can evoke an emotional experience, but clearly listening for detail is an intellectual experience.
Learning to play an instrument is intellectual/left brain, but I suspect for musicians it is more an emotional/right brain experience.
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For years I work with, for and around world known musicians, and not a single one of them owned a stereo that was worth a damn. When they wanted to listen to a finished product that would be representative of what a consumer would hear when purchasing their albums, they came to my house.
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I know a bunch of audio engineers and record executives who love Von Schweikert speakers and McIntosh amps and pre-amps.
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