What is the current retail cost of your reference system?
It would be interesting to share this as I am not sure some of us understand how decisions are made within the framework of cost and resolution. Please avoid used prices as that muddys the water significantly. Also cabling costs would be revealing as well if willing to share.
A better question would be: How much do you spend on average each year on gear?
Regarding my system here is what I will share. My mentor of the past 3 years came over for a listen and said-"I can't believe you have put together a system that sounds like 3 x what you have actually spent". That did warm some cockles.
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The man I bought my amp from imagined he was boasting, but I was appalled, the list went on and on; he had spent - by my rough estimate - upwards of three hundred thousand dollars over the previous twenty years on dozens of things, and yet he was still groping and didn’t sound satisfied. I took it as a warning. I have older equipment that sounds wonderful and is mostly 8+ out of 10 condition. That means the previous owners exerted a special effort to keep those things fine, day after day for decades never letting the cat jump on it, etc. I feel a responsibility to them whom I will never know and am thankful to for doing so, and someday God willing, others will enjoy this equipment and feel the same way. And a system is a kind of musical instrument, deeply personal to the owner-user, an extension of their self, worth more than its price. Every penny spent is written down, but for me, the total cost reveals mistakes vs successes, the total cost of the system vs the total cost of learning to build a system, as evidence of the effectiveness of my research and the soundness of my reasoning in making choices. The ratio means a lot to me, and the system is worth far more to me than what I spent on it. |
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...don’t know if I should break into tears or lapse into psychotic laughter.... What have I paid? Enough to make me happy for the time being. Will I spend more? Likely. @mrmeaner ...Yeah, it’s on the verge of that... 😏 Most would likely do a spit-take on what I’ve spent. Do I care? Will someones’ response make me feel....’inadequate’? Oh, hell....NO. Re your comment (which I don't take personnally, only as a point of 'reference'....*L*), I opt for the old saying of: "If 'it' makes her happy & content....it's enough...." (It's all in application, anyway....;)...) Back to things audio.... Whatever one opts to spend ones' discretionary dinero doing what floats ones' boat is their option And I'd be the last to argue about it. I've got 'other things' that I Have to throw it at, that makes more sense and has more impact on my 'day2day' enjoyment of this diversion in the long haul. Besides....I count on y'all to get bored and/or disappointed in the whatever puts you into that state so I can enhance what I'm about. As for the latter... Wait for it. I've had to be patient, and you've no choice in the matter. *LOL*
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"A point of reference." My knowledge of local traffic in rush hour can STILL let me not only pass you and your 911S with my 'beater' Focus Ford, leaving you tied up behind the 'muters that, despite your exceptional vehicle, leaving you tied up and fumed.... Bang for the buck. Does anything else matter? I suppose, but that becomes a personal issue that one can spend endless amounts of $ v. therapy upon....mho, discountable as per usual. Spend what you must....I'll watch/read..... ...and wait. *Posted under 'some influence'* |
Much of my system is vintage and couldn't be purchased retail today so I converted into today's dollars which comes out to around $50k. However, my cost was closer to $32k. Speakers - Altec Lansing Model 19 Mint (1978) - $5250 in today's dollars Subs - REL 212/SE Pair - $8400 Amps - Quad II 60th anniversary Mono Blocks (1997) - $20,000 in today's dollars, Turntable - VPI Classic w/ Soundsmith Zepher (2011) - $4,000 DAC Mytec Brooklyn + - $2,250 CD Transport - $500 Streamer - $400 Phono Preamp- Puffin - $700 Passive Preamp - $500 Cables - $2500 Power Conditioner - $1750 Equipment Stand - $2200 Headphones - $1500 + I have almost 10K in Decware amps on order but there is a two year waiting list.
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Current system +50k (pricing of older items as they were back then), like speakers, tuner, preamp, phono, power amp, SACD, cables 10k, power strip - wall outlets and racks +7k. We have to accept that audio gear is not for money investment, there are some rare exceptions though, but only for pleasure feeding the soul and avoid visiting the psychiatrist. Does value represent sound quality, that is a difficult question and most likely with not a definite answer. Yesterday i was very lucky to audition a really good system comprising a Lavardin ISX integrated amplifier, Blumenhofer Tempesta 20 speakers and Norma CD player. Total retail cost 15k euros, musical pleasure way much higher than that.
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Not trying to start a Cold War of spending . Or any sort of comparison contest. Some come here to upgrade or improve their sound so wouldn't it be helpful to understand the costs associated? A silver cable will not improve the sound of a $500 receiver, in fact it may hurt the sound. It is obvious to those immersed in it for years, not so much new folks testing the waters. Welcome to Audiogon. The average price to replace the main listening systems of our members is $30000? Just thought you would like to know. |
Seeing as I built my turntable, my speakers and my power amp, I have no idea what an equivalent commercially built set up would cost. My tuner, CD player, DAC and phono stage were all purchased in the 90’s. So for the performance I have, and the enjoyment I get from it, my out of pocket, was comparatively low.
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I quit estimating value when I reached $100k, my conscious can bother with this obscene level of conspicuous consumption. And the level of OCD to put it all together, bizarro world!
And then we can approach this from another angle, one can spend $100k plus on a single component. At what level of spending do we enter realm of obscene conspicuous consumption? I'm sure this doesn't even occur to many, just that I know and have known many hard working people struggling to maintain roof over their heads and food on the table. |
@sns I completely agree with your thoughts and am in (nearly) the same boat. I also tend to think that while any of us spend tens of thousands we are also employing many many people. And paying taxes. The thing that sort of freaks me out and is way more "obscene conspicuous consumption" is the level of cars/suvs/trucks people buy in my area. I could go on but it would only serve to prove nothing...its just an opinion. Regards, barts
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Retail for the main system $50.5K, and for the office & patio systems combined $4.1k. However, I would never pay retail, this hobby way too expensive, far too fast, especially for those touched with OCD. Most of my components were purchased from dealers, pre-owned as trade-in's, some from audiogon and USaudiomart, and some new. As described by @ghdprentice in other threads, I purchased components of similar quality after alot of research, trial and exchange. This way I was able to achieve a system with relatively good synergy. Only item lacking at the moment are my speakers which are due for an upgrade. |
@dweller This is true, but the vast, vast majority of my vinyl was purchased when a typical album sold for between $3-$10, and many were gifted by people leaving vinyl behind. |
I started from scratch two years ago because the system that I bought 45 years ago was stolen within the first year after I bought it. Raising a family and mortgage payments and everything else I didn’t bother to try again until two years ago. With the intent of spending about $10,000 for a modest system, $40,000 later I am almost done! I am expecting their best audio sensibility speaker cables later today. I spent three times what my 1977 system cost on cables alone, including power cables and interconnects. That early system consisted of a pioneer amplifier/receiver, and Bose 901 series 2 speakers and a modest TT. It sounded pretty darn good then, but my ears were 45 years younger. So the answer to your question is, you can spend as much money as you want to spend on a stereo system, depending on your tolerance for spending and what you are trying to accomplish. You can do digital or analog for much less the trying to do both in hq. With so many improvements in materials and technology I’m sure pretty sure that today you can put a pretty darn good system together for $10,000 for a modest size room. Wish now I had stuck to my original budget and bought an “all-in-one” unit and hq book shelf speakers. However it does sound good to my ears. Weak link may be the speakers. If the new cables don’t blow me away, I may sell speakers and upgrade. My system: Pass Int 60 - 9k Innuos Zenith MK3 - 6k Innuous Phoenix USB - 3.5k Ayre QB 9 twenty - 3k VPI Classic with Transfiguration Axia - 6k Parasound JC 3+ - 3k Volti Razz - 6k Furman - 1k Speaker cables and interconnects - 6k Good luck in your quest!
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@dadork was there an argument in there? |
hysteve, My history tracks somewhat the same as yours both in the original and the new. Funny how these things work sometimes. The more interesting thing is comparing where people did and did not allocate money. Few mentioned the room. Everyone must have at least some absorbing panels. Many have dedicated power lines. Those are audiophile costs. If you have $10k or more in a system and nothing in the room you have erred. Nobody is counting the offset costs. What are those? You spend $5k on some audio item and that means the spouse spends $5k on something they want. Now that can jump things up in a hurry. Music acquisition. About $27/month for Roon + Qobuz. I do not have vinyl. so not buying any pricey LPs. What other hidden costs of audio? Travel to shows. Extra ear exams? Custom ear protection? Better car system? Office system? What's your time worth? Watching youtubes, reading reviews, tweaking a system? Zoom meetings.
I think I will quit now.
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"What is the current retail cost of your reference system?" Reference system = only system. Retail cost would be around $30K, but my actual cost was much less. The only components I bought new are my dac and ethernet switch. I look at it the same as buying golf putters. There are so many people that try to buy their way out of problems, instead of looking to where the real problems lie.
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I’ll play. I’m retiring early so this is probably my end game. I started this system two years ago. BnW 802D4 26k shitty HT amp (upgrading as soon as stock market rebounds to Moon 860Av2) 20k Cambridge CXN streamer 1.3 k HT subs 4k (plan to upgrade to 10k) x-over (JL audio) 3k power con 1k cables 1k Acoustic Curtains/DIY Panels 1.5k 64k Total. Wow. I could have bought a Tesla.
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Retail around 50k Out of pocket around 30K I have a 50k boat but most of my friends have 150-250K boats. They look at my speaker cables and think I am nuts. I see them working their ass off on their boat and think their crazy. Everybody spends their money a little different. I do not mind spending 150-200 on a bottle of Tequila . Some folks think that is excessive. If you dont make yourself happy nobody else will. |
Interesting... a wide variance in equipment quality. Yet so many strong opinions on items that affect SQ. While my stuff is more at the high end of these estimates, I'm a chump at the local dealer who sells $250K and up... Magico, etc. How can we really share SQ experience on say, cables, with member owned systems from Sonos to $1M plus? All good but just huge differences in resolving power. And what important to each of us. |
I'm not sure what everyone is getting out of this. It turned out to be a good exercise for me because breaking it down into percentages (for the first time) let me see what my distribution of spending is. While it is true that price does not exactly correlate to quality, if we're going to be honest we'll admit that there is a relationship. Someone can't charge a lot for a mediocre product, at least not for long, and when someone puts in the engineering work to create a great product, like any other business, they want to see as much return as they can. I'm sure there are exceptions to both categories, but by and large it holds true. Looking at my distribution I'd have to say I either got a real deal on my amp, Hegel H390, or it may be the next thing to consider. It's also interesting to see that my second highest system investment has been in cables. Thanks, @JPWarren58 for posting the question. |
Illuminating answers, especially regarding cost percentages. Retail on my system is a guesstimate $35-$45K but I paid less, a lot less. Why couldn’t the OP look at our individual, listed systems and do the math himself? The useful info for me would be what was actually paid vs retail cost..….no one here would lowball now, would they? |
@jlchen I don't feel so bad now. Would be interested to know what equipment you are listening too. Any chance you will list a virtual system with some pictures? The amp $$$ is huge. More than one amp(s) in your system? |
@ronboco That's some sweet looking equipment on the Dagostino web page. Makes my poor old Hegel H30s look downright plain. 🤣 |
The retail price of my system (Conditioner + Streamer + DAC + Integrated Amplifier + Speakers) would be about $8,500. Current cabling is an additional $850. I think the only value in knowing how much others have invested in their systems is to better understand their perspective when it comes things they recommend. A budget component is very different for me compared to someone that has $18,000 or $180,000 in their systems. Sometimes I think well meaning advice is given on this forum that simply miss the mark for the person asking because they are thinking about totally different price points. |
A pointless question!.... Take for example my 30yr old B&W Matrix801's. Retail in 1990 they were $3500. I bought them used in 1998 for $2200. What does that mean in today's dollars? Who knows. I'd compare them with any speaker available today in the $3-6k range. Same goes for my 20 year old Bryston amp. Today's Bryson's are twice the price as mine. Over my 35 years in this "hobby?", I'd say my purchases between new & used have been about 50/50. Now there's a worthwhile question to pose to the group. What's you percentage between New & Used gear? |
@jrosemd +1 "... spending too much money..." @grislybutter +1 "... about 6k...." and "of course it is - it is one of the most selfish way to spend money and time. This post proves it. It is a self-serving, genitals comparing thread with pretty much 0 purpose. Who cares?" ... But, I suppose if one has all one's legacy concerns in order, family taken care of, house and car paid off, investments diversified and adequate to provide future-indefinite security, and so on, well... then whatever, I guess... indulge away, I suppose. Some people equate good life with bling. I feel sad for such people. An oncologist friend of mine has a spouse who believes that spending more and more money on shiny stuff will somehow bring happiness, finally happiness. They are now in the process of divorce. And btw, a stereo system isn't really a legacy... and this truth really came home to me as I was making out the spillover will segment of my trust document: nobody that I know cares enough about my stereo system to even make it worthwhile to include in the will. Think about that. To them it would be more of a burden than a blessing. Same is true about my collectible books. So, I'll just lump it in with all my personal possessions and instruct my executor to sell it all and give the money to my preferred environmental charitable organization. Interestingly, my musician friends think my $600 speakers and $600 amp plus a used cd player sounds excellent, as does everybody else who hears it, and I agree... it's in the public area of the house, and I entertain about 20 diverse people from a wide range of walks of life and income levels several times per month. The sound quality actually turns heads, and people offer unsolicited comments and become curious about it. A couple people have asked about its cost; they are surprised that one can put together a system that sounds so good for so little money, if one knows what one's doing... they had fallen under the spell of thinking you have to spend many thousands to get a satisfying stereo system, either under the influence of marketing or prideful "audiophile" acquaintances, and they are so relieved to learn the truth: money spent does not equal practical enjoyment of music. I must admit I have a pair of Heresy IV speakers and a Marantz Ruby amp and cd player in my private suite, and I must admit I like it very much; bought every piece as "open box" deals by waiting patiently and then pouncing. Other people who hear it like it too, and think it's nice... but nobody so far has cared about it enough to ask what I paid for it, except on this forum. |
