It's amusing to me how most every thread eventually comes down to opposing views. Be it cables, tube vs ss, streaming or owning physical, whatever, and here it's spending lots makes sence or is a waste if not immoral. Have I spent lots? Yup. Do I feel bad? Nope. There have been many times I have agonized over a purchase. My wife tells me "look, you worked hard all your life and you saved enough. You don't spend a lot on yourself and music is a lifelong passion. You're already helping all the kids and you can't take it with you, so if you want it, then buy it". So as long as this hobby isn't hurting anyone or preventing you from meeting all your other pursuits and obligations, then knock youself out and who cares what anyone else thinks. This ain't no dress rehearsal people so live it to the fullest.
What is the current retail cost of your reference system?
It would be interesting to share this as I am not sure some of us understand how decisions are made within the framework of cost and resolution. Please avoid used prices as that muddys the water significantly. Also cabling costs would be revealing as well if willing to share.
there is something unpleasant to sickening the way people write about their several times 100K systems in this thread. Like they have to show off, compensate for something, rushing to making the point that they are super rich. And it gets worse on their system pictures, showing the tackiest furniture, ugly kitchens (with 0 relevance to their system) and power amps more expensive than any car I ever bought. You can say how much it cost without being a creep |
expensive systems are often over rated, as is the notion of how much money a person has, as if it makes you a better person if you have more of it tremendous musical enjoyment can be had with fairly modest systems, with experience and skill applied in how they are put together... isn't that where all of us started? too often folks use money as a measuring stick... it’s quite shallow and unbecoming |
+1 coppy777 “Interesting... a wide variance in equipment quality. Yet so many strong opinions on items that affect SQ. … How can we really share SQ experience on say, cables, with member owned systems from Sonos to $1M plus? All good but just huge differences in resolving power. And what important to each of us.” we all take a different journey in gear which influence our perception and experiences on percentages invested in SQ. For me it’s about the music and the hours of enjoyment. Although I’ll admit the more I spend, the more I listen
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My wife and I moved into our second house many years ago. After two corporate moves we had done very well. I was very proud of our beautiful 2800 sqft home in a beautiful neighborhood. My parents came over for a visit and were appalled when they saw our new home. They said no one needs a house this big. I grew up in a small farm house with one wood and one gas stove for heat. My parents drove older cars. My dad had a good paying job. It was their choice to live frugally and be self sufficient, as did most of their family- my grandparents, aunts and uncles. None of them were poor but were hardworking and actually spent money on their hobbies. Still, a car or an appliance was not discarded until there was no chance of reviving it. I chose differently. Still, my upbringing certainly tempered my choices with regards to luxury and ostentatiousness. I could potentially sink twice what I have in my stereo system but for my internal limitations. On the other hand, I celebrate what others have achieved in terms of sound quality with their ultra systems. We all need the trickle down technology that starts with costs only the rich can afford. And one other thing- good quality sound is much more affordable these days compared to the audio hobby of the 1960s. I remember my dad bringing home a Philco 25” Color TV in 1968. Cost for that TV today would be $6000. Seeing Star Trek on that TV in 1968 was amazing. Point is, why do we judge people for the amount of money they spend on their hobby? If the kids are going hungry and without shoes then that is a different matter. |
Having a conscious here is not about guilt, its about being mindful that most of us here live privileged lives. Keeping mindful of that tends to make one more humble, empathic and happy, one not always comparing themselves to those who have it better.
Still, in general I'd say most audiophiles not into pissing contests, I'm also into cars and motorcycles, car enthusiasts boasting about HP is the worst, I see many absolutely destroying cars to get another 10-15hp, complete nitwits. At least a $10k cable doesn't destroy one's system. |
I wouldn't focus on a $ amount. You'll just get frustrated as you see people spend a small fortune. You should set a budget and then proportion it out % wise, with a majority spent on speakers. I will say that I've seen people spending $50-$100K on a system that sounds like crap due to improper pairing or horrible room acoustics. I have a system that I spent less than $10K (Dynaudio, Rotel, Sota) and it sounds great, but I was meticulous about placement, etc. |
having been a high end residential real estate developer for twenty plus years, having seen hundreds if not thousands of very expensive homes, i can personally attest that people with money to burn and people with good taste are quite often in non-overlapping sets that said, in the minority of cases where tremendous spending power meets great knowledge, well expended effort, and highly refined taste, the result can be truly exquisite this reality certainly applies to stereo equipment and systems too |
@tonywinga +1 |
@bigtwin - Inspired commentary! |
"Point is, why do we judge people for the amount of money they spend on their hobby?" I judge people when they are jerks. Not when they disclose how much money they spent on X. Here is my "favorite" quote: "But I didn’t buy a boat" meaning the dude thinks he is so modest by depriving himself of a boat, he deserves his 100K rig. I know many of you don’t understand the audacity (hint: 97.6% of the people can afford to pay even the docking fees) which is exactly the point. If you have the money, you do whatever you want with it. When you justify (again your money, don’t need justify it) it with BS or your explanation is just pure insensitive bragging, it might make you look like a unpleasant human being. |
@tonywinga @jjss49 and similar posts ... I find it reassuring that in a thread with the potential for a great deal of acrimony, you guys inject a strong dose of common sense ... Thanks for that! |
Different people have different values and live different lives. Some commit themselves to education and hard work and make a lot of money. Others prefer a more balanced life between work and family and may have less resources.many spend money across a dozen interests… some over just a a few. Then there is your nature… frugal or indulgent. Many more parameters. Folks that are passionate about work, and with few pursuits can end up with high dollar system. Folks with more diverse interests and less focus can end up with wonderful system but with less dollar value. Too much ego and we end up with folks just accusing others of not being the same as yourself.
Personally I respect folks with $10K systems that have a passionate love of music and put a huge effort into assembling it. I have a lot of respect regardless of the cost provided folks truly love and pursue great high quality systems… even if the cost five or ten times what mine does. I don’t assume just because someone has more money than I do that they are stupid. My experience has been exactly the opposite. |
@vonhelmholtz You are correct sir. In fact, I married her twice, but that's a story I'll save for thread on domestic bliss. 🤣 |
I've never thought more or less about other audiophiles based on the cost of their systems. One thing that is unique to audiophiles and their equipment is that I'd bet the majority of audiophile systems are bought and paid for and do not represent debt. Why is it that people think that it's cool for someone to own an expensive boat, but take issue with someone spending an equal sum of money on an audio system? I'd bet far more boat owners have loans on their boats that are stretching them financially than there are audiophiles that have loans on their audio systems. Maybe I'm wrong and more audiophiles are in debt with their systems that I am thinking, but it seems to be that most audiophiles built their systems over many years. |
I'll Play......I think it is interesting who else is crazy... Naim Statement amps/pre = $300k Kuzma Stabi DC XL turntable w/ Kuzma 14" 4Point arm & Koetsu Rosewood Signature Platinum cartridge = $50k Revox PR99 Reel to Reel = $5k Naim CD555 w/ 2 555power supplies (CD player) = $46k Naim phono pre w/ Supercap power supply = $12k Grandinote Mach 36 speakers = $170k Luna Noir cables $25k
All told, approximately $600k. Amp, pre, CD player bought used. |
@orenstein You win. 🤣🤣🤣 |
@orenstein I can come over and take and post your pictures for you :) |
tonywinga You could create a virtual system page.LOL If I don't know how to post a pic do you really think I know what a virtual system page is, no less how to create one?
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grislybutter@orenstein I can come over and take and post your pictures for you :)
That sounds like an excellent idea, especially while enjoying a fine dram or two of scotch! I'm on Long Island, NY. |
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My system is captured in my profile. It’s as much as a nice car not including music media - $75k or so I enjoy music and I share with friends. The amount I spend is irrelevant because I enjoy when someone else shares their system with me. Consequently the cost is less important than the passion to me. |
grislybutterThat is unfortunate... |
Being a CPA I have an affinity for numbers. The interesting aspect of this thread for me, aside from the usual morality plays, are the percentages across components. I am in the camp of allocating the highest percentage to speakers (50%). The next is my turntable/cartridge (11%), followed by power, pre, SACD/DAC (all 9% each). Sub (6%), interconnects (3%) and streamer (3%). Price paid $40k, current retail $60k. I love my system. |
I too thought the percentages were interesting, and I do keep a spreadsheet although I gave up on calculating losses selling gear. I bought everything I have now new. I dont like sharing how much I paid for anything, but I've listed all components in my profile. Integrated Amp 15% TT 15% CART 12% Phono stage 9% Speakers 31% Streamer/DAC 7% Cables 6% (This would be much higher if I didn't switch mostly to Zavfino, sold the more expensive Nordost cables) Isolation 5% |
Three observations: 1. For costing out a system, MSRP is an irrelevant number. I am encouraged by how many people have bought used or at a model closeout, as I did in assembling my systems. 2. No matter whether the system is 4 or 6 digits of expense, part of the fun is seeing how far your budget can take you. 3. (irrelevant) Some years back some economists studied the transaction prices of cameras on eBay. Looking at the unconditional distribution of prices (that is, ignoring which camera it was, etc.) they saw that it had two peaks: One around $200 and another around $800. Of course different people have different needs, and there is a distribution of budgets out there, but nonetheless, why a bimodal distribution. Further research uncovered that the piling up at $200 came about because that is what men thought they could get away with without disclosing price to their wives. The question I wished the OP had also asked is, "How many of you are candid with your spouse about how much you spend?" |
I can't believe how many supposed grown men are whining about what other adults spent on their gear. "Insensitive"??? Why does that even appear here? My main rig has under $10k invested and if someone spent a million plus, good for them. It doesn't bother me in the least. Why should it? If you're unhappy with your lot in life, do something about your life. Tearing down someone else' life won't fix it. Besides the below listed I have spare amps and speakers that are waiting for attention of one sort or another totaling approx. $2000-$2500. These are retail prices when new, not what I paid for most of it. For example, I got the Marantz PM-KI Pearl for half price, used, and a $600 pair of Kimber 8TC speaker cables for $100, also used. DIY speaker prices are parts cost, not including paint, time, etc.. In the end, prices are irrelevant. I thoroughly enjoy listening to music and my gear makes it happen. I get to share that love of music with my child, as well as our shared appreciation for the equipment. We also spent time together building speakers and a father/daughter relationship. It's not about what brings us the music, it's about what the music brings us. Integrated amp-$3699 Speakers-$1600 CD/SACD-$1150 DAC-$100 Cables-$650
Second rig (bedroom) Integrated amp-$250 Cables-$80
My daughter's stereo Integrated amp-$500 CD-$400 Cables-$660 retail ($160 used) Speakers-$229 DIY/$400 DIY |
@ebm I have come to love your posts from the town of Succinct on the island of Sardonica. |
@jerryg123 I started I thread trying to encouage members to create their Virtual System. I see you have not done so. I know you partisipate a great deal on the forum, so may I ask why you are not posting your system? |
Hard to say since to claim Klipsch Lascalas II retail for roughly $5000 each. The new version is much higher, I bought B stock which has played flawlessly for over 5 years. My amp was about $4000. Source components are about another $5000. Cabling was about $2000. Sub and cabling about $1500, So how much is that? None of us worry too much about it unless a piece of kit dies. The, for me, is the side items such as new media, new tubes, headphones, headphone amp, record cleaning machines, special tweeks everywhere like Mad Scientist nano pods, contact goop, vibration reducing pads, and on and on,,,All very worth it to me. |
