Proof of improvements in audio system sound quality....

on valentines day

we had to leave the store early since she had to cook dinner.

Oh Lord, your relationship is doomed ............ 

i was at a audio store yesterday with my wife. she was very unhappy to be there...

Don't bring your wife next time

 i need someone to help explain how to make a less expensive system sound better,

Room treatments and speaker setup in a room your wife will let you use for audio. In a joint living space get a power conditioner instead of room treatments

@digitalviper

Sorry to say this, but you should be a professional on-stage comedian. Just read-aloud what you type to folks on audiogon. Forget a regular day-job, use that money you earn to build a great system....then you won’t have to beg your wife for money.

I laughed so much at this - net benefit: cardiovascular system and healthier lungs!

Not sure if it was satire; either way, incredible!! ....

i was at a audio store yesterday with my wife. she was very unhappy to be there...

but i told her to stay because of course we are in love. she said she would help me with choosing a audio system on valentines day. but she did not keep her promise.

And yeah, I’ve seen @mahgister ’s system and sure it doesn’t look very tidy, but you know what? You’re not the boss of him. It’s his system...not yours. Let him enjoy it and stop trying to bully him in to giving you answers. One thing he’s got is respect; and based on your previous posts and this one...i can tell you’re lacking that personality trait - insurmountable proportions of drivel and confusion indeed !

Sorry in advance if I was a bit rude. Honestly...the folks on the forum are great. For example, so many helped with recommendations for a turntable (for my cousin). Looks like you get a lot of help from your wife...maybe just have her proof-read what you type online each time you post something new?!

All the best to you and take care.

My wife visited stereo shops with my me during our first year of marriage. That was in 1980. She has not visited a stereo store with me since.

1) Always keep your spouse involved in the buying decision process even if it comes down to, “If I buy this, I will buy you that.”

2) Salesmen are not experts. They know just enough to help you decide to buy their products. I have met just a handful of stereo store owners that really knew their stuff. And every time I found them grouchy and cantankerous with little patience to suffer fools. Seems to be a requirement. But if you are patient and humble you can learn a thing or two from them.

3) Watch the old TV Show Mr. Ed, S5 E1 titled HiFi Horse. Insightful episode that says it all about our hobby.

+! Bravo @tonywinga 

And every time I found them grouchy and cantankerous with little patience to suffer fools. Seems to be a requirement. But if you are patient and humble you can learn a thing or two from them.

forget everything he said...try some tweaks...start with the free tweaks, then the returnable ones...trust your judgement..make a decision...many here will say you don't really hear what you think you hear...

Your wife had to cook dinner on Valentine's Day?

"how to make a less expensive system sound better, truthfully. with no lies at all."

Stop being a cheapskate and open your wallet to buy a better system.

Pretty easy.

"we had to leave the store early since she had to cook dinner."

She "had" to cook dinner? Sheesh. Does "she" wait by the door when you get home from work with slippers and a drink too?

My partner and I have been together for 37 years… or is it 38? I only occasionally bring her along. Only if I am stuck. She, like virtually all females has better hearing, and is very sensitive to noise and distortion. So, if I am wavering, in two seconds she will say those sound terrible. This helps keep one off the “detail is better at any cost train”… cuz there is frequently a cost.

Beware of experts. I start by interviewing. I have long conversations with a potential audio guy. I cover stuff I know well. I note his comments… does he have a clue? What does he know about? What are his values in sound reproduction? Does he like flashy sound, polite, bass heavy… detail scraping, musical? What kind of music. I work from obvious to detailed stuff… moving down to individual interconnect signatures, cartridge sound. He needs to be more knowledgable and honest.

Obviously you can only go so far as you know. But if you are in synch and does not trash stuff he does not sell, or ideas he has not tried, then you can trust him.

You want someone knowledgeable not just opinionated. I have no idea why any sales person would offer an opinion on @mahgister ’s system. Just trying to look like he knows what he is talking about? Run.

I have had three audio guys of 20 years each. We have real, informative conversations. I have learned a great deal from them. These days the conversations are two way and he will ask me questions and sometimes bring equipment over to my house to help him evaluate. This is ideal… but takes long relationships.

As usual, one’s wife is right. She knew you were at the wrong audio store. Where is Mahgister, anyway? Anyone know? Miss him.

MY bit of advice:  abandon the need for “proof”.  Trust your ears.  If you can’t hear differences in sound learn to listen, there are ways to learn.  Or, don’t worry about it and just enjoy the music.

As do I. Either as a personal choice of departure @frogman ... or, now roaming the infinite cosmos.

Stick with cheap junk and pretend it sounds good.

What a crazy thread. It doesn't deserve a response. Mahgsiter was not crazy, but I don't know about you @digitalviper  

When I can't make up my mind I simply ask myself...

"What would TubeBuffer do?"

DeKay

she said she would help me with choosing a audio system on valentines day. but she did not keep her promise.

Of course,

why did you expect on Valentine's day?

But, 

the answer buy a better system is very sincere.

To flip a phrase… beauty is in the ear of the listener…. Or, he might hear it, you might not. 

What a rambling mess of a post. Were you drinking heavily when you came up with this?

If your wife had to put up with that nonsense at the audio store, she deserved a great dinner at a restaurant afterwards.  That was your first mistake!

This is the funniest  thread  I've ever read. Thanks!

I had my wife clean the gutters on Valentine’s Day.  Don’t judge. I held the ladder. 

Very few audio store salesman that I have talked to know anything except how to sell any piece of audio gear to make a dime. That goes for most audio magazine reviewers. These guys have terrible rooms that they review equipment in and everything they review is the best they ever heard.
A’gon used to be good for knowledgeable people to discuss audio equipment, room design, synergy, tweaks, and more, but that has totally disappeared. Now you have people thinking they are knowledgeable/experts in this field when they have a couple hundred/couple thousand dollars invested in equipment. That’s like going to a person that owns a suburu and asking for his advice on a Bugatti. When I was shopping to spend $60k-$100k on audio equipment, my wife was involved, either by joining me at dealers or going to audio shows around the country. Just like my wife and I always went together looking at new homes, expensive sports cars, and boats. Nothing wrong with that, and I value her opinion.

@p05129 

So according to you, if someone doesn't spend 60-100k, they aren't knowledgeable? That's elitist nonsense, and it seems like you used your post to be a braggart. That's embarrassing.

You are funny!

@p05129

Can you please post a pic of your system?

Thanks

In my experience most people working in audio stores are not as knowledgeable as you would hope. Remember they are salesmen not audiophiles!!

You want someone knowledgeable not just opinionated. I have no idea why any sales person would offer an opinion on @mahgister ’s system. Just trying to look like he knows what he is talking about? Run.

@ghdprentice perhaps you are placing too much faith that this interchange happened. If I was shown pictures of that system, I am not sure how I would respond. Me biting my tongue and me wanting to say exactly what I thought would be fighting each other along with me asking myself what I did wrong to deserve this customer while my little inner demon licks his lips and says, "we got a live one, daddy's getting a new car."  Not all opinions are equal or even valid.

The easiest way to "learn to listen" is to listen to only music you love, but you may have to search high and low for it.

@mastering92 

maghister is the disciple of millercarbon....but millercarbon must be RICH. the other guy is poor so the tweaks are for better sound....my family and my brother told me i am also a funny guy.

@dabel 

NO. not true. we have a very good love...better then you!!

@ozzy62 

i like to drink sprite every day. not much booze. only on family time.

@roxy54 

i am NOT crazy. You should look in the MIRROR. 

@byner 

funny in a BAD way or a GOOD way?? please tell me...

overall you guys are not very useful with helping to figure out my question.

So, I will ask it one more time....

i need someone to help explain how to make a less expensive system sound better, truthfully. with no lies at all.

on th surface i can smell some liars already. I am asking for honesty as the best policy, and nothing else.

do i make myself CLEAR??

- viper

start with a Magic Brick…. just one…. when you post a picture of it in your hand w system in background, i will let you know…. where to place it for best improvement…..

after that small pebble, we will see how ya do….grasshopper….

iF you are remotely handy…you might even DIY your own brick…..

** i need someone to help explain how to make a less expensive system sound better, truthfully. with no lies at all. **

It is now legal in about half the country (USA).

If you're serious, there's plenty of advice in past threads here, or do some internet searches. 

@dekay absolutely the funniest post! LMFAO so much my ribs ache!

...for Vals’ Day I lucked into an early reservation at spouses’ fav eatery, had a leisurely delish meal and had a good time for our 45th....which astounds some but not us....which Is the Point. ;)

@digitalviper ....’k, to cut to your issue, what are your intents? What are you looking to improve upon?

Room treatments? Curtains, rugs or no, ’art’ that acts like diffusers, placement with the given space...call it ’redecoration’ and enlist Her (not doing so is at your detriment, obviously...) in the event....

Speakers on stands, or not....most SO’s have their issues over the boxes that ’have to be Just So... although mine likes the small Maggies’, despite their ’feeding habits’...*shrug* Go figure...

Room eq can do wonders or blunders, a room correcting unit could be an answer without K$ in the pursuit....

There’s a lot of approaches to ’improvements’, but a better statement of What Bugs You would help in an audioRx...

@frogman ...*L* yeah, a little can go a long way but depends upon what state one is in, who you know, and the aroma left behind to the curiosity of ones’ kids....age dependent, of course...

...it’s all ’between the ears’, after all...😏👍

Happy Weekend, J

.....been doing the improbable for so long with so little.....

Doing the impossible with Nothing?

Rabbits still need a hat....or being able to reach around back Just So.....*L*

The opening of this post cracked me up, I’m picturing my wife in audio stores not looking at anything, just patiently waiting to leave. As for a cheap system sounding good, I think that’s very possible, my first system was cheap and I was in love with it - Marantz PM6003 and Monitor Audio Bronze BX2 bookshelf speakers. I used a Mac mini and just went headphone Jack out to RCA using iTunes and downloaded music. While some of the music was in WAV I didn’t have the software to play it native resolution so I’m sure it all came out mp3.

Why was this system so good, because it was my first system coming from computer speakers and I had no experience with anything higher end. If you start your journey listening to expensive equipment and get your ear to enjoy that sound, then buy something way less capable you’ll never be happy. If you start at the bottom though it will sound so much better than everything else and you’ll love it for that. Get off the forums and just enjoy that system, set it up as well as you can with some space around the speakers and just buy music. The day you’re genuinely ready to spend more, then go and listen to equipment AT THAT price range, this has been my experience and it’s been a great hobby to me. 
I will say, the more expensive the equipment the more you expect from it, and this can lead to frustration if it’s not PERFECT. It takes more work and more money and can eventually lead to more reward, but not always. So, to close, enjoy your system, give your speakers some room, and stop listening to anything you can’t currently afford. When you can afford it, then begin searching, I appreciate this takes willpower…

@digitalviper, your love is fake ...........................................

@digitalviper

My first foray into a high end audio store introduced me to GoldenEar speakers and Parasound electronics.  It sounded great and introduced me to 3D soundstaging.  The second audio store the salesman pushed for a budget, so when I reluctantly gave him some number he tried selling me a meh sounding system.  Although I complained to management, I lost trust in audio dealers.  So until very lately (I finally found a dealer I can trust), I did my own research online, audio magazines, audio stores, and audio conventions.      

Audiophile tweaks are a personal choice - some avoid them while some embrace them.  Some work, some not so much.  The salesman was likely trying to steer you into a sale for his benefit which is not an unusual motivation.  It's not wise to automatically trust a salesman.

This is a high-end audio forum.  It's a head scratcher that you go on this forum saying that

i get premium sound quality with my earbuds and smartphone

which is not high-end at all.  If you are satisfied with the sound quality then your done and can save on spending for a system.  But as most of us here know, there is much better sonics to be had for a price.  Some may chase a "fool you it's real sound', while others may favor tube warmth midrange magic.  Your settling for earbuds/smartphone leads me to believe you haven't heard many great sounding audio chains.

Being in love has nothing to do with shared interest, especially when it comes to hobbies.  From many forum comments, seems like most spouses "tolerate" our hobby rather than support/participate in it.  

First off Mahgister‘s rock bags zip tied to the outdoor power line is genius.

"Get Better Sound" by Jim Smith.

@digitalviper - Never ask a salesperson for advice on stuff they don't sell.

fiction with an agenda?

@rocray 

"I had my wife clean the gutters on Valentine’s Day.  Don’t judge. I held the ladder."

Nice.  But, the big question is: Did you sit your beer down and use both hands to hold the ladder?

@p05129 

"When I was shopping to spend $60k-$100k on audio equipment, my wife was involved, either by joining me at dealers or going to audio shows around the country. Just like my wife and I always went together looking at new homes, expensive sports cars, and boats."

I wanna be you when I grow up.

@waytoomuchstuff, let’s not get crazy. One hand on the ladder is good enough. 

Okay @digitalviper

Since you asked so politely, I’m going to try my best to answer your question. I can’t promise that what I’m about to type will even be a sufficient answer. Please don’t be angry if my answer is unsatisfactory. To calm your nerves, I’m going to try and provide a bit of extra information that may be useful to you. Once again, in life there are no guarantees! We can only do our best and expect others to notice.

i need someone to help explain how to make a less expensive system sound better, truthfully. with no lies at all.

on the surface i can smell some liars already. I am asking for honesty as the best policy, and nothing else.

do i make myself CLEAR??

- viper

The cost of audio gear is based on a number of things. The cost of parts, paying electrical engineers / designers, executives, shareholders, etc. Once a reputable brand goes "corporate" meaning it is no longer owned by its founder(s), rather a large conglomerate, quality and overall value goes down like hell. Cost alone is less important than the quality and reliability of the internal parts that are used to build audio gear you buy. Look around for audio gear that was not built to a cost."

For example, look inside an amplifier - what brand of capacitors are they using? A handful or 2 to 4 large filter capactiors with rock-solid build quality may last a bit longer than a power stage with a school of less costly capacitors on mainboard power stage. Lousy capacitors can be cut in half with a pair of scissors; while the best among them are totally solid, resulting only in a dent. I DO NOT suggest trying this.

Be careful around all audio equipment you get to see; and have a reliable person supervising you at all times.

While it is true that electrolyte in capacitors degrade over time/extended use, cleaning the tops of them to ensure no dust build up and short listening sessions with low impedance speakers or a headphone out can help. Sometimes, replacing capacitors is absolutely necessary. This is most often when relays fail, new fuses of the same type/rating don’t work, and/or if the amplifier is consantly going in to protection mode and refusing to power on, or stay powered on.

Everything matters! The lengths and quality of soldering of cable inside an amplifier, CD player, etc. the shortness of the signal path, things like a quasi Class A output stage, circuit design, cables between components etc. including but not limited to cable length and conductor (silver is superior to copper; unless you use PCOCC copper then you might not hear much of a difference) since that is very pure copper with a continuous cast process (was invented in Japan). The specifications that really matter start with frequency response, but are more complex than baseline measurements (sites like ASR) and those will tell you a lot more about sound quality than SINAD, which is an outdated metric. Tons of negative feedback in a circuit, OP amps, and other design shortcuts can result in extremely low levels of THD - this is largely unimportant for sound quality, since you won’t be able to hear those levels vs something like 0.0.2 % etc. anyway.

The crossovers in speakers are all of different grades. In a perfect world, we would have crossover frequencies all set at optimal levels with the highest quality parts. Speakers in particular are marked up in price heavily - meaning the cost to produce a pair of speakers: what the company charges the distributor is not nearly as costly as you might think! Speakers and cables are marked up quite a bit...as are imported audio gear from rare brands overseas (brands like Goldmund, PMC, ATC, and top Japanese brands).

Different midrange cone materials, tweeter implementations, and how robust a woofer is to its own vibration is absolutely important! Properly deposited beryllium or graphene drivers can produce great results! Woofers that appear to be moving back and forth and rattling are inferior and will result in a complete disaster for figuring out the texural resolve and bass styles used in your favourite music. Tight bass should actually sound like dense, compressed air. Rather cold. Tonal qualities for speakers are all over the place...Speakers you find at department stores with unrealistic power handling specs are not telling you the full story. They will clip and sound terrible.

Some vintage speakers (especially those from Japan) are known to have a very sweet midrange (for female vocals) and often take the edge away from otherwise sharp passages at higher frequencies and upper-midrange frequencies that should have been tuned down properly by someone in the post-production process.

Always listen first and take written / mental notes when you experience new audio gear. Find what meets your needs, rather than what is popular. Avoid pushy dealers who suggest "will you be making a purchase today? and give you a cold stare if not. Dealers who are unsuccessful typically charge slightly above what others are charging for the same product! Always do recursive searches with an image search software to find the same product offered for less, or at least a reasonable cost.

Back to listening first - Some people have better hearing than others. It’s hereditary.Visit an audiologist to get your hearing tested to ensure that your hearing is actually at a good level, so as to be fully capable of enjoying a good audio system. There is good news - even if you lost some hearing in high frequencies, most of what makes music an emotional and captivating experience is in the midrange...vocals instrumentals etc.

To figure out if you possess special talents, you should visit the Eugenics Record Office in Cold Spring Harbor, New York. If they’re too busy, invest in some books written by Charles Davenport. You can buy them on amazon.com. Go back and check your family history. Who knows...you may have a relative who was a musician, hence why you are an audiophile?!!

The science of Eugenics would serve you well; even Physiognomy is great to discern (truthfully, with no lies at all) if you and your Wife are meant to be together. It can also help with spotting lying salespeople; simply by looking for key facial features. For example, I once made a citiziens arrest (some hoodlum grabbed an elderly woman’s purse) ran after the guy and held him on the ground until the cops arrived.

Back to Physiognomy, he had exactly the facial features that were associated with the criminals, lying etc.

I would be curious to know how all this works out for you. Feel free to send me a message. You’re a good guy I think...You just need a large measure of external guidance and support. - from a Charles Darwin quote..one of my faves.

Have a great day! and be well.

Remove all the parts from prospective audio gear.  Check them for tolerances, then reinstall them using silver solder.  That's the only way you'll know for sure.

The only part of this I believe is, well none of it.  Especially the part about his wife being bored at the stereo store!😉😉