ATC.
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The fundamental is in the lower midrange around 1 to 500Hz ish depending on which fundamental vibe the engineer went with but it lays in that region of the spectrum.
And then the harmonics that give the fundamental it's tonal Identity of track, snap and pop is in the 900Hz to as high as 5kHz.
And then the trailing end of notes and tail for reverbs used sits around the 3 to 7kHz regions and then depending on how the mix of said drum was EQ'd during the mixing stage, there will be some air texture to it.
So basically what this means is you need a balanced sounding speaker that gets out of the way, doesn't have recesses in important frequencies (note that below your room's Schroeder frequency the room modes that become prevalent make it a duty for you to get them fixed)
So basically get a speaker that is balanced in tonal character above the Schroeder frequency which is roughly 3 to 500Hz.
Below that you'd need good speaker/room coupling, pragmatic solutions like iterative room treatment, iterative listening position tweaking and subwoofer integration.
What's your budget for the speaker? @saummisra |
@ditusa uh...lol. Whew doggies! Those'll do! I love this very specific application. Almost a benchmark maybe. |
It’s just not the speakers, it’s sum of all parts. To highlight the tap on the snares—those crisp, delicate transients and subtle microdynamics—you’ll want speakers that excel in speed, resolution and transient accuracy. My Tannoy Canterbury’s with a pair REL 12” subs, goose bumps experience whenever I cue up MFSL UltraDisc One-Step 45rpm Vinyl :-) |
@lalitk I’ve been tangentially interested in subs for my Tannoys for a while, but still haven’t done it yet. How much have you compared with versus without? And are you using the Canterbury venting ports open or closed? Was also wondering if a comparison via Youtube might be useful - have you come across any such videos? The Canterbury has such a satisfying, full bass and midrange (midbass and up) compared to other Tannoys - but of course it doesn’t extend too deep. As for Tin Pan Alley - I hoped to never hear it again, but could possibly stomach it just one more time for a Tannoy comparison like that ;) |
Electrostatics, planar-magnetics, ribbons, horns. But it’s not just the snare wires you’re hearing, but also the wires vibrating against the resonant (bottom) head on the snare drum. As an aside, to hear what a snare drum sounds like with the snare wires disengaged (via the drum's "throw-off"), give a listen to "Tears Of Rage" by The Band.
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A# you know, Canterbury has that rich, tactile mid-bass and midrange that make it one of the most emotionally satisfying experience. IME, when a sub or pair of subs integrated carefully like my REL’s; they flesh out the much needed foundation without ruining the Tannoy magic. REL subs isn’t just there to add bass, they unlock ambient cues, and spatial depth beautifully. This is one of those things, you have to experience and decide for yourself. As far as Canterbury’s ports, I found the sweet spot with them half way open since my room (15’ D x 30’ W) is fairly large and acoustically treated. |
Despite my Hi-Fi journey beginning in the mid sixties my speaker budget kept me relegated to mid-fi speakers until my last purchase. Lets call what your looking for is midrange slam. My first speakers were actually our PA speakers, Altec A7's Voice of the Theater, oddly the least expensive. We often single mic taped our gigs and played back through a single A7. No other speaker in my experience ever came close to those A7's or similar compression horn monitors in studios for raw recorded playback dynamics. @ditusa JBL suggestion, I'm guessing, would provide that level of slam. On a budget JBL, Mackie and Behringer all make powered PA series that may float your boat. |
Wharfedale Linton Heritage speakers are excellent at reproducing snare drums. They are mid-bass speakers and as @kofibaffour states:
The Wharfedale Linton speakers are considered to have a balanced tonal character above the Schroeder frequency, which is roughly in the 300Hz range. Before purchasing, I was somewhat skeptical of the soft dome tweeter, but it really provides an excellent reproduction of cymbals, triangles, tambourine, cowbell, etc. I had been using speakers with ribbon tweeters - which do a great job with those instruments - so I was really surprised at how well the highs were represented with "mid-bass" speakers. Snares are sharp, and depending on the drummer, can be gut-shots in some songs. I will probably upgrade to the Super Lintons at some point, as they are likely a step up in all those areas due to the additional crossovers. |
Back in the day when I was in the business, "Tin Pan Alley" was used for demo in audio stores, at audio shows, and when I was in a client's listening room / home. I also used it, and still do, when evaluating a new piece of gear, such as another power amp, which I often swap out with another. My system as a whole, showcases very well, intricacies of every recording I play. Once the speaker and room do well, everything down the line contributes to the final outcome. Enjoy! MrD. |
The problem with Tin Pan Alley is that it sounds good on most anything of quality. But, it is a nice demo tune and certainly can show the differences in equipment. In this case, what this demonstrates is the difference in "snap" between the Yamaha RX-Z9 RECEIVIER in "Pure Direct" mode, and the Melton P/P KT-88 tube integrated amp rated at 80wpc (no feedback). Source is an SACD on an Oppo BDP-95. The difference is really obvious. These were recorded on a Nikon D750 DSLR and the tracks are within 0.2 dB using pink noise. |
I’m an ex hard rock drummer for over 40 years. From the late 70’s, everytime I went to audition new equipment, I would take in music that exposed the drums: Tom’s, snare, bass, and all the different cymbals. 2nd requirement was how the bass guitar sounded. I wanted to hear the difference between a ride, crash, hi hat and splash cymbals at the same time the bass drum decay. In the 70’s, I bought the ess speakers with the heil air motion transformer, to the more current Revel BE speakers and the Ushers with the DMD tweeters |
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@toddalin that snap is great. Do you know what speakers are being used? |
Boring easy/safe tracks...not good for evaluation of a high end speaker. To evaluate if a speaker is any good or not (worth the cash or not), you should play difficult tracks, the kind that the guys at shows would be scared to play, lest it shows everyone that their speaker is crap.
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@deep_333 here here |
i have a pair of rel S812s bringing out the bass that my Wilson Audio SashaV's need "very little help" with...but it does sound differently, and i think, better...but the wilsons sound perfect w/out the RELS....but, i've been told the wilsons would sound BEST with a pair of W/Audio's subwoofers......hmmm...at about 4 times the cost of what i have invested in the RELS...and so it goes
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@curthuff Had the same experience adding two JL Audio powered subs alongside my B&W803 D3. More bass, more space (larger soundstage). Very happy. |
In general, rock & metal will make li’l speakers fall apart, if cranked up loud enough in a large enough room.. Here’s a prog metal track that falls in that category ( a bit more complex though, not quite the run of the mill rock), in fact most of opeth’s 2 albums, black water park & deliverance would fall in that category. Opeth - The drapery falls https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeTNkPXRrVY But, as you might suspect, the audiophile ain’t listening to rock & metal, because it isn’t recorded well enough for his delicate sensibilities. So, let’s get into other slower genres that could be recorded really well (so he’ll try to listen to it), but, will still let him know when his rig is crap... When you have a lot of dynamics, deep low end with more complex vocal arrangements on top of it, all those dinky li’l 2 way bookshelves fell apart. Here’s one Baaba Maal - Gilli Men https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5IRSe2h8CY Now, if we were to get into more weird stuff... Most mastering engrs around here haven’t heard the Vitas vocal range, i bet...Here’s some where he’s screaming high simultaneously when the grand piano’s tumbling down into the lower octaves.... Vitas - Symphonic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Dz2pwD8gpc etc etc This is another bit of strange (ask a violin player). Jonny Greenwood - Open Spaces (There will be blood OST) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APYLVQxx9Jo
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Speakers are a very good starting point but the equipment also matters a great deal. If you are looking for detail in your sound, you need to have components that are quiet. That usually starts with the power supply design, etc. Old style tube amplification where the sound was sort of warmish most likely won't bring out that tap that you are seeking from most any speaker. Happy Listening |
There’s so much more within this track I’m not sure to focus on that one aspect of the snare is a best case. it would eventually become a one note without the complexity of the whole, I think
The pistol shoot! that was a 44! How do these come forward? Where is the vocal? Front of or back of his lead guitar? Can you hear when he moves?
Others have mentioned this to be an easy tune to reproduce on any decent system, which I would tend to mostly agree with, but as always the devil is in the details
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I have used Tin Pan Alley as a reference track since it was released. I have heard it on hundreds of systems. My current Altec A7 do a fine job. JBL’s that I have had too do a great job in this track. 15” woofers are one of the keys to unlocking the magic as well as horns.
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Yamaha NS-5000 has tonal accuracy 26hz-40khz using woofer/midrange/tweeter made from the same aramid fabric. It has the effect of a single driver with much broader frequency range. There's a Vandersteen model that does the same. The market trend is disparate material drivers that are crossed over with cone woofers. So it depends on your budget and inclination. |
@rwbadley and it tries but doesn't sing and dance to worth that money |
