Thin Line Between Critique and Courtrooms: A Dialogue on the Recent Audiophile Drama

Judge : I heard these speakers and I have to agree with the reviewer's / defendant sentiment. 

This is the answer to the question we see all too often, "why do we see only good reviews". Reviewers exist to make money, not get sued and lose money. 

 

@james633 

I would too but it's closed

Did Tekton actually sue Erin, or merely "threaten" to sue?  What would constitute a "threat"?  If Erin relies heavily on measurements, an incorrect measurement would could damage the company's reputation and I can see why they would take action.  If the Tekton representative's explanation is correct, that action involved getting Erin to redo the measurements and repost his review after such correction in the measurement protocol.  While this certainly suggest pressure on Erin to change his review to avoid further threats, the ball is in Erin's court--he could still post a negative review, but, at least he will not have published factually incorrect measurements.  

It appears to me that there is a bit too much hysteria about evil companies attacking reviewers.  This does not happen often, and in this case, it is not even clear from the discourse here that Tekton did anything more than protect their interest by getting the reviewer to do the measurements correctly.  It is pure speculation on the part of the posted video that the measurement issues were minor and insubstantial.  

Will you explain why you didn’t do that in the first place instead of threatening to sue him? Forgot that little tidbit.

I’m not a lawyer and don’t have any special expertise in libel/slander laws, but I’m guessing that before taking legal action in a case like this, a manufacturer has to first publicly and/or privately advise the alleged offender that they have made false claims about their product and that if they don’t stop doing so then legal action will be pursued. Otherwise, a lack of such a warning immediately after the manufacturer becomes aware of the alleged false claims might indicate tacit approval and could affect any right to future legal damages if the matter can’t be resolved out of court.

I haven’t reviewed all the reports cited in this thread, but it sounds like Tekton could have been more tactful in how they went about dealing with the reviewer, but it may have been legally necessary to protect any future case.

Tekton would have to prove malice on the part of the reviewer, which is just short of impossible.

Again, I'm not an expert but I'm not sure a finding of malice would be necessary. As I understand from a bit of googling, malice is required for a defamation finding against a public figures or officials. In all other cases, mere negiligence in making knowingly false defamatory statements is sufficient. So it seems that if someone knows that a claim is false and makes it anyway, it may be actionable regardless of motive.

I hate to sound like a defender of big business, which I'm not, but the law can be complex (probably too much so!) and it's not usually a good idea to reach conclusions about stuff like this unless you 1) know all the facts, and 2) know the law.

I watched Erin's video right when it came out of those hideous garage speakers.  The review samples were sent to him by a viewer, not the manufacturer.  

The manufacturer should have just opened a constructive dialog with Erin, first.  But the way this was handled was wrong and heavy-handed is being polite.  

There are so many other speaker brands out there with better finishing and aesthetics that if Tekton goes away, I wouldn't notice.

I will be donating to this when I have a few minutes today. 
 

https://www.gofundme.com/f/erins-audio-corner-litigation-fund

+1 @roadcykler 

The person so emotionally fragile as to sue someone for a review he didn't agree with should be embarrassed. Chances are he's bringing way more attention to the review than would have happened naturally. Not smart.

Audiophile drama looks like isn't really worth the courtroom unless it desires some clownade to go public.

I always wonder up to now ? The waiting time to buy Tekton speaker is at least a month or more if you decided to have a better finish on the box.They always have people buying their speakers. Why? Inspite of all the bad comments like they are ugly, they are cheaply made?They don’t sound good?

Did Erik from Tekton send his speaker to Him for reviews? Or the reviewer just did listen to Tekton speakers? I think Erik was gracious with stereophile result of his 30k speakers.Though the comments is not favorable.

And 2 years from now Tekton will rebrand itself. Another unfair corporate benefit.

Money, lobbying by businesses, supported by legislators overwhelming the people.

Government of the corporation, by the lobbies, and for the lawyers.

 

Frivolous lawsuits. It's a USA MO.

I unfortunately got used to it a long time ago

Just take a pair into the courtroom and measure them in front of the judge. They either can repeat the measurements and win, or fail to repeat and lose.

This reeks of insecurity, not surprising for a company that can't design loudspeakers correctly. 

Tekton would have to prove malice on the part of the reviewer, which is just short of impossible. The sad part is the reviewer will have to pay lawyers to defend himself. Just the threat of being sued might keep other reviewers from mentioning obvious problems with designs which hurts us. 

I had Zero interest in Tekton before, even less now.   

"- Where do we draw the line between constructive criticism and damaging feedback?"

The line should be at "Lied" If the manufacturer or the reviewer lied with intention to cause damage then there should be recourse. Otherwise not. 
"- Is the courtroom really the arena for settling disputes over reviews, or should dialogue prevail?"

Dialogue first. If there is willful misrepresentation with the intent of financial harm then the courts should (assuming they are even honest any longer) adjudicate.
"- And crucially, what does this mean for the future of honest, independent audio reviews?"

I think independent reviewers remain encouraged and are not too worried about being bullied. 

"So, fellow audiophiles, what's your take?"

Tekton managed to alienate and anger a LOT of well heeled informed consumers.  Way to go you morons! 

"Have you ever felt swayed by a review, only to discover a different truth upon listening?"   

Yes- long ago I bought a ChiFi DAC that Thomas was raving about- a Suncoz. $500 in the toilet on that one. Ugh!  "Learnt me lesson" 

"Have you faced the ire of those who didn't appreciate your candid feedback?"

Nope- I'm a digital nobody-  unless you count Audiogon. I have riled a few snowflakes by accident. Some people are just miserable and want you to join them. 

This reminds me of the political left cancel culture of destroyer a opponent 

when it doesnot fit their narrative . Your 1st amendment right is to your opinion .

you should ask to not have your outcome displayed if they don’t like them.

I am not familiar with the speaker in question but unless speaking personally about their integrity ,and moral character I don’t think they have much of a case.

I wouldn’t use the word “truth” in this instance.  I would suggest that the word opinion is a better choice.

The majority of opinions on audio websites are utterly useless. I take them as garbage. But if I made a living engineering and designing speakers I would hold people accountable for the ignorant BS they spread. Many people who participate on audio websites are idiots who know very little about what they are talking about and can destroy a reputation just to hear themselves speak. Why not hold them accountable?

'Tekton is dead to me"    about the worst PR you can get from a reviewer.    Well done Tekton.   

"I respectfully asked Erin to pull his review temporarily..."

Yeah, by threatening to sue him. A lot of respect there...

" I believe we’ve got everything figured out and expect his review to be published again soon."

@tektondesign ,

Will you explain why you didn’t do that in the first place instead of threatening to sue him? Forgot that little tidbit. Now you’re playing the understanding good guy after the "fact". 😂

Looks like nothing more than damage control after your litigation threat bought you a truckload of bad publicity.

 

whats the debate?

reviews take unflattering measurements, and some companies threaten to sue. 

i have no idea if the findings of the reviewer were legit or the complaints (not the threats) of the speaker comapny wre legit. 

i did recently watch a video where gr research danny reviewed and measured a set of magnepan minis WITHOUT THE BASS DRIVER. of course the bass was weak. youre reviewering these speakers without the bass driver. 

 

SLAPP suits have always been popular with those people/businesses that could not rebut criticism with legitimate claims or evidence.

 

Strategic lawsuits against public participation (also known as SLAPP suits or intimidation lawsuits),^[1] or strategic litigation against public participation,^[2] are lawsuits intended to censor, intimidate, and silence critics by burdening them with the cost of a legal defense until they abandon their criticism or opposition.^[3]

In a typical SLAPP, the plaintiff does not normally expect to win the lawsuit. The plaintiff's goals are accomplished if the defendant succumbs to fear, intimidation, mounting legal costs, or simple exhaustion and abandons the criticism. In some cases, repeated frivolous litigation against a defendant may raise the cost of directors and officers liability insurance for that party, interfering with an organization's ability to operate.^[4] A SLAPP may also intimidate others from participating in the debate. A SLAPP is often preceded by a legal threat. SLAPPs bring about freedom of speech concerns due to their chilling effect and are often difficult to filter out and penalize because the plaintiffs attempt to obfuscate their intent to censor, intimidate, or silence their critics.

There seems to be comity between the parties.

There's back and forth after this pinned posting, so I don't really know where things stand, now. But this seems to be pull-back from litigation.

For more, see this discussion:

Pinned by Youthman

@TektonDesign

6 hours ago

Would the Troubadour review be live today if it didn’t contain any provable mistakes? Yes- absolutely! Here are the facts... I am protecting my brand and I have no problem with a review [good or bad] so long as it doesn’t contain any mistakes. The review contained a couple of measurement mistakes based on a couple of simple oversights. In all fairness to Erin, the Troubadour is a unique loudspeaker that would throw the best acoustical measurement experts a bit of a curve ball - the speaker is even unique to the point of being allowed a US patent. The measurement oversights have been talked about between Erin and I and Erin has agreed to remeasure the speaker. I respectfully asked Erin to pull his review temporarily and we’re working together to ensure the measurements he publishes are accurate. I believe we’ve got everything figured out and expect his review to be published again soon.

Yeah man...go after somebody for subjective criticism and you not only look like a fool, but instantly earn all the bad publicity you're likely gonna get. If you actually believe in your product...any product...you gotta take a hit once in a while. Suck it up. I recently noticed an older ad for a Tekton Moab with beryllium tweeter/mid array for 18 grand. Now it's 30 grand. I should have invested in beryllium futures. Sue me.

This seems very heavy handed on the part of the manufacturer, if it’s actually happening the way it’s being reported. Erin seems like a reasonable guy and I suspect he would have been amenable to a discussion about his testing method with the manufacturer, where any issue could have been resolved amicably.

I’ve no time for people who resort to the threat of litigation when there are clear and obvious alternatives.  “Vote with your feet” is my default position when I hear stuff like this… 

Again I looked at the measurements and thought they were better than expected but my expectations were pretty low.
the thread can be read here.
https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/tekton-m-lore-speaker-review.48732/

Has anyone ever wondered why a middle eastern dude thinks he’s a Chinese chick (in all these years)? It’s quite strange.

Well said @panerai557 

…and the court would like to welcome expert witness millercarbon through zoom demonstrating a  live recording of stairway to heaven through his iPhone…

There are a number of laws to protect the reviewer. Audioholics covers some of them in the video linked above. There is no libel, there is no case. It is just a way to bully the reviewers into taking down the reviews as no one wants to mess with court. 

So I guess there's no 1st amendment in hifi journalism?

Reviewers review a product however he wishes to and tell his thoughts about it however he wants to. It is up to viewers how they react to the review either buy it or not. I commend review which does not sugar coat. Like some stereophile reviews, I can pick out things reviewers didn't like. Art Dudley was pretty clear about product he didn't like. Read his review on EAR Yoshino CD player. Also John Atkinson said that Simaudio 700i does not deliver power according to its spec. I think after that Simaudio stopped sending their products to Stereophile for reviews

The problem I see these days is everyone has to be right. There's no room for negotiation and understanding. Things are so short fused, especially on the internet. These designers should be more open minded and willing to work with reviewers and improve on things. 

I expect ASR will have more protection from manufacturer/distributor lawsuits than most since so much - and sometimes all - of his content is emperical measurements.

Now a litigant can always claim ASR's measurement technique is flawed and therefore besmirching their product unfairly, and drag Amir into court and outspend him.

But as others have said this is the new American social/economic context, where nothing matters except the $$.  Corporate concepts of honesty, integrity, long term customer satisfaction and fair competition in the marketplace are going the way of the dinosaur. 

 

 

Tekton also threatened to sue ASR publicly in an open forum recently for a review they did. It is a long thread and can’t be bothered to paraphrase it. What I can tell you is I will personally avoid Tekton now and forever, not because of what they call “bad” reviews but because of their attitude on the forums and toward reviews.
 

Again I looked at the measurements and thought they were better than expected but my expectations were pretty low. 
 

the thread can be read here. 
 

 

thecarpathian,

Erin’s Audio corner has direct comments on this YouTube page community page regarding this issue. He states Tekton is questioning his test method due to not having feet on the speakers as there are holes straight through the cabinet that the feet. Erin did not state directly Tekton is the company suing….

 

 

I'd expect as much from somebody who builds speakers that look like his....

Big pass here....   fugly speaker 

tEktOn, pass

This could’ve easily been solved with a little communication and follow-up measurements.  Not a good look for Tekton IMO, and who the hell would wanna review one of their speakers after this?  Stupid. 

C'mon, everyone!

Take sides and shoot it out before this all gets deleted!

@thecarpathian +1

it's the Barbara Streisand effect. If you want to be talked about for the wrong reason, make scene, throw a fit. 

He does like to throw the ’slander’ word around a lot. He’s done it here more than a few times.(Even though he means 'libel'.)

And I just know he’s reading this...

Will he comment? If he’s really that hot headedly dumb, yes!

If he has even a scintilla of common sense, no!

I would be happy to contribute to Erin’s potential GoFundMe.

I cannot stand a bully.

I am so not surprised after reading the tekton guy's bullying comments in the other thread. Erin should have started a gofundme for the legal fees. He is really sane and objective and as hard working as anyone I know. 

I’m no lawyer, and have no opinion nor a dog in this fight herein, but here is what a lawyer bud informally highlighted as an online GOOGLE search for the general public as an informal,layman’s “fast “n dirty”background info blurb on a complex and evolving area of alleged tort law,

PLAINTIFF ALLEGED COURTROOM CLAIM FOR “SLANDER”

“ …. the action or crime of making a false spoken statement damaging to a person’s reputation..”

 

PLAINTIFF ALLEGED COURTROOM CLAIM FOR “LIBEL”

” …. a published false statement that is damaging to a person’s reputation; a written defamation….”

 

SLANDER vs LIBEL

” …. This general area of law is called defamation law. Libel and slander are types of defamatory statements. Libel is a defamatory statement that is written. Slander is a defamatory statement that is oral.…”

 

Plaintiff can possibly lose his alleged case or have his alleged claim for damages amended if the defendant can ultimately support his alleged defamation defence.

Defamation law continues to change and evolve. Defamation attorneys must have extensive knowledge of First Amendment and other aspects of defamation law to effectively prosecute claims for businesses, professionals and individuals who have been defamed.

Historically, the distinction between libel and slander was significant and had real-world implications regarding how a case was litigated including the elements that had to be proven and who had the burden of proof.

Illinois courts have changed their approach, however, as the Illinois Supreme Court explained in Bryson v. News America Publication, Inc.:

At common law, libel and slander were analyzed under different sets of standards, with libel recognized as the more serious wrong. Illinois law evolved, however, and rejected this bifurcated approach in favor of a single set of rules for slander and libel. Libel and slander are now treated alike and the same rules apply to a defamatory statement regardless of whether the statement is written or oral.

The tort of defamation (sometimes referred to as defamation of character) can be divided into claims involving two distinct types of statements:

- defamatory per se statements and

- defamatory per quod statements.

Statements that are defamatory per se (sometimes referred to generically by courts as libel per se) are so obviously and naturally harmful to one’s reputation on their face that proof of injury is not required. Illinois law recognizes five types of statements that are considered defamatory per se:

• Imputing that a person committed a crime;
• Imputing that a person is infected with a loathsome communicable disease;
• Imputing that a person is unable or lacks the integrity to perform one’s employment duties;
• Imputing that a person lack ability or otherwise prejudices one in one’s profession; and
• Imputing that a person has engaged in adultery or fornication.

Importantly, a statement can only be considered defamatory per se if the harmful effect is apparent on the face of the statement itself. If extrinsic facts or additional information about the person being defamed is required to understand the harmful effect of the statement, then it cannot be defamatory per se. That is not to say the statement is not defamatory if extrinsic facts are required; it just cannot be defamatory per se.

If a defamatory statement does not fall into one of the defamatory per se categories or requires extrinsic facts, then it is considered defamatory per quod. Unlike in cases involving defamation per se, defamation per quod claims require the plaintiff to allege and prove special damages (also called “special harm” by some courts). The term “special damages” or “special harm” is a legal term of art in defamation law that means the loss of something with actual economic or pecuniary value. In other words, a plaintiff alleging defamation per quod must be able to show specifically how the defamation caused a specific, quantifiable loss of money such as the commission from a lost sale or the salary from a lost job.

 

 

@james633 ,

Since you saw the review first-hand, is the above video true and accurate in it's statements?