Speaker Cables? why all the hype for expensive speaker wire?

It’s Amazing That there can be such a controversy on the price of cables and then inevitably ends up to what you may or may not hear as a difference. it’s a lot of BS, and rather insulting. I’ve been privy to experimentation and now use equal length good quality 12 gauge sometimes referred to as lamp cord by the demeaning Stupid !! My system is large, powerful, in a well set up Studio. There have been many a seasoned well trained listener with few negative opinions. I hate crap, cheep, Gimmicks, Snake oil, and BS. 

How times have changed … now it’s the deaf who call the folks with perfect hearing dumb. 😂🤣

Really. Look, rather than spending ridiculous money on an intrinsically dubious item, invest that money in top quality active speakers. Then run any decent professional quality balanced cables to those speakers. I promise you that you’ll never look back. For several reasons, modern active speakers almost always give one significantly more "bang for the buck." Part of that is because they require significantly less gear (no amp or fancy speaker cables) as well as much less fiddling and fooling around. Then spend the time and money you save enjoying the music. Or is that not what this is all about?

If you believe you hear it, fine.
But don't lay your alleged superiority on all the rest of us.

Different sounding isn't always the same as better sounding, or more detailed, or... etc. Expectation bias expecting differences doesn't guarantee superiority, it just means not the same as what it's replacing.

Can’t beat lamp cord. 

Don't waste money. Get decent quality cables and play your tunes. Blue Jeans Cable is economical and very good quality for us mere mortals.

I like my audioquest type 4's...they were not expensive and sound great to me. I use two pairs as I bi-wire. They have been a favorite for years at stereophile. If I had my way, I'd buy two pairs of auditorium 23's....however, that would set me back 3k. 

Lptocd - yes, active speakers is one way to go. Not always, though. I did an experiment the other day. The 'master' speaker of my Elac AM 50 no longer drives the 'slave' speaker.  I wondered if the slave was broken, and connected it to my main amp, Atmasphere MA-1. It worked OK. And not only did it work OK, but it sounded *amazingly* much better than I have ever heard it driven by the amp in the master speaker. Of course the MA-1 amp is in another league. Even so, I was surprised. And this was even with a short lamp cord, to the speaker!

Moral; if you go for active speakers, the quality of the amplification (not just the speakers themselves) means a lot. Check the passive speaker driven by a good amp - then you will know if the internal amp is good enough to match the best the speakers can do.

As I see it, about all that should matter very much is the length, the gauge, and having a good secure termination. However, when people swap cables, they invariably introduce some collateral change. For example they tighten a connection that was loose or they eliminate RFI simply by rearranging the wires. Then they attribute the SQ difference entirely to their new, expensive cables.  

Now, what I've just stated is an hypothesis. It should be testable.  Meanwhile, Blue Jeans Cable represents roughly the point of diminishing returns for me (at $1.90/ft. for Canare 4S11, 14 AWG, unterminated speaker cable). More power to you if you can hear an improvement from a much more expensive cable with the same length and gauge as well as correct, equally secure connections. 

“@millercarbon where are you located? I would love to come by for a listen!”

Follow The Yellow Brick Road....Follow The Yellow Brick Road

Now, what I've just stated is an hypothesis. It should be testable. Meanwhile, Blue Jeans Cable represents roughly the point of diminishing returns for me (at $1.90/ft. for Canare 4S11, 14 AWG, unterminated speaker cable). More power to you if you can hear an improvement from a much more expensive cable with the same length and gauge as well as correct, equally secure connections

Now I will agree as I have conducted with experiment using my Moon 600vi and SF Olympica Nova 3. Using Transparent Cable Gen 5, Raven Audio Soniquil Cable and Blu Jeans 4S11.

all properly burnt or run in and then switched out cables and at no time did any of these cables diminish the sound quality or out right out perform the other,  to point of saying cable X is a giant killer or cable Y was worth the $800.00 more it cost.

I think if it works for than use it and if $5000 cables make you feel good then buy them.

Easy to answer. If you could toss a vibrant word salad with the same ingredients and taste qualities as the plebian described one, and you could convince people to spend 100 times more for the privilege of digesting your words, why not. There are tons of products and people who buy on hype but would run like scared chickens if a true blind test was available.
 It is a sort of religious cult where the secret keys to the audio kingdom are possessed by oracular golden ear pontiffs who disdain the idea of blind tests because mere science and physics can't hear what the "educated golden ear" can. Solipsism.

Oh boy.....another cable thread!
63 responses in, and the only clarity is that once again there is no clarity.....shocker!
Listen to your system, buy some cables if you want, or buy a bicycle.
Either way, don't forget to enjoy the music, and stay safe on the road.

I think there are two issues, taste and science.
Taste is subjective like in comparing a Guarani to a Stradivarius violin, musicians have their preference as to sound. Maybe same with cables and if you like one cable does not mean others have to feel the same and vice versa.

Science is lacking if the user is not comparing cables without knowledge as to what cable one is listening to in making a preference.

mahlman

... If you could toss a vibrant word salad with the same ingredients and taste qualities as the plebian described one, and you could convince people to spend 100 times more for the privilege of digesting your words, why not ...
 It is a sort of religious cult where the secret keys to the audio kingdom are possessed by oracular golden ear pontiffs who disdain the idea of blind tests ...

Wow, now that's a heaping bowl of word salad!

I've always paid special attention to anyone that calls me an idiot, that's always a good start. Couple that with a strong opinion on what I should or should not do with my own money, obviously a winning combo.

Still ANOTHER vote for the Fidelium.
Guess my ears are defective.......

Wow cleeds you are right, that really is a heaping bowl of word salad! Plebian! He threw "plebian" in there! "Oracular golden ear pontiffs"! Shouldn't it be "oracular golden eared pontiffs"? Either way, I resemble that remark!

@millercarbon where are you located? I would love to come by for a listen!

bigkidz-Sorry, only just now noticed your question.  

I am just east of Seattle in Redmond. A long trip to be sure but worth it, we have one from NH and another from TX coming in August. Krissy and Rick, both of whom have contributed greatly to the wonderful sound we have been able to achieve here. They are each bringing some things, and together with what we already have on hand it is sure to be an ambitious few days of critical listening. You are welcome to join us. Or for a more relaxed experience with everything nicely settled in you are welcome any time. 

If you believe you hear it, fine.
But don’t lay your alleged superiority on all the rest of us.

I have a much better idea. How about the hearing impaired not frequenting an audiophile forum?

Sparing your feelings isn’t a valid reason to dumb down the forum. 

It is a sort of religious cult where the secret keys to the audio kingdom are possessed by oracular golden ear pontiffs who disdain the idea of blind tests because mere science and physics can't hear what the "educated golden ear" can. Solipsism.

I wonder if the astronomy folks get the same anger from their visually impaired members?   

How else will they ever sell?

I have the Pinetree Audio Kinietic Bi Wire 9AWG stranded pure copper c/w locking banana connectors, 10 foot length  12 feet was $125 USD
Excellent build quality, and most importantly they look really cool!!

You hear what you hear when i first started in the hobby i could not tell the difference due to gear and speakers but as my system got better and i had logged more hours of listening i definitely could hear the difference that better wire made.

"After listening to many speaker cables, I am listening to basic 14 Gauge, high purity copper speaker wire and find myself shaking my head.  Does this basic speaker wire sound better than cables many times the price?  I am really starting to ponder that question.  I think I am hearing things on my records I never heard before and better balance of sound.  What are your thoughts?"

Perception is reality.  It is inevitable that some type of expectation exist prior to the experiment.  If you felt like 14 gauge wire from Parts Express might sound better than 14 gauge wire from Home Depot, it will.  Audiophilia is a kind of religion.  All it takes is faith.

@mikelavigne

i have my most expensive cables for my phono cables and phono preamp; that is where i find the best ROI and the biggest 

Thanks for the tip Mike.  I had my speaker cables sorted out, mostly determined my interconnects and Ethernet cable targets, guess I’ll have to determine and budget for phono cables…sigh…

I have no dog in this fight (debate), but I'll simply say that, in my recent experience, a change in cables in my system has been transformative by every measurable listening metric:  range, soundstage, imaging, etc.  We are very active listeners, virtually daily, so we are very tuned into to the sonic dynamics we've come to expect from our 2-channel system for the last four+ years from our originally installed (reputable) cables.  Our recent upgrade to new speaker and power cables has been the qualitatively best investment we could have made.  In short, I now know that cables matter!

...ah, yeah, we need names here.  I upgraded to Synergistic Research Foundation cables for speakers and for power to Golden Ear Triton One speakers with powered subs from standard Transparent 12-2 cables with bricks at the speaker end.

A shout out to Peter at The Cable Co. for the guidance and recommendations.

" Wow, now that’s a heaping bowl of word salad! "

  Well in an alternative universe my doppelganger writes clap trap for fine audio gear. Sometimes we have a partial mind meld.
  By the way, inquiring minds want to know why you left the word solipsism out of your quote

" I wonder if the astronomy folks get the same anger from their visually impaired members?   "
 Nope because the Astronomers can prove with science what they see.

Nope because the Astronomers can prove with science what they see. 

Ok genius, you see a light in the sky, I don’t. Prove to me “scientifically” you’ve seen it. 

"" Ok genius, you see a light in the sky, I don’t. Prove to me “scientifically” you’ve seen it.
"  Did some work years ago for the Astrophysics Lab in Huntsville at the Marshall Space Flight center. I built some emulsion drying racks and developing tanks for photographic plates flown on balloon flights to the Ionosphere for Cosmic Ray studies. They would stack those plates and put various elements in between them and when cosmic rays hit them there was a series of decreasing size dots. Now depending on where in the stack these showed up they knew how to determine the element that emitted the cosmic ray and which basic direction they came from. I saw the plates and scientific genius at work. Measurable provable evidence.

  And then there is you with your silly counter comment. Kind of reminds me of the kid who stands there with his eyes closed and ears plugged hollering I cant see you or hear you.

Nice answer about that there cosmic rays. Unfortunately nothing to do with the question I asked you.


Now back to my question. How do you “scientifically” prove you see a light in the sky when I don’t?

Put on your glasses, now do you see it.. Prove?

Why does anybody have to prove anything to anybody. That's right they DON'T!

Why cast pearls before swines? You need proof, good for you.

Prove it yourself and post your experience.

People demanding proof.. 

Ask a better question and you just MIGHT get a better answer.

Quality questions = quality answers LESS the fancy attempt to show one's super duper intellect, with SALTY soup and not even a decent word salad.

Time to look in on the chickens.. Skunk is trying to get in the hen house, come on dog..

OK - so far - No one has stated what contributes to a good cable

So if anyone is interested - here is the "Coles Notes" version of what to consider WRT cables...

First the metallurgy...

1. UP-OCC silver will achieve the fastest and most detailed sound
2. Next is UP-OCC copper
3. Five nines silver
4. then OFC copper
5. then everything else

Solid wires will always outperform stranded wires

Plated and alloy wires tend to degrade the performance of the" base" material of that wire - which to some peoples ears sound "smoother" or less articulate

Then the insulations used on the wires

1. Air will provide the most clarity - it is hard to achieve but the closest you can get is bare copper inside a larger teflon tube
2. Cotton is next
3. then Foamed Teflon - like AirLok from VH Audio
4. then Teflon
5. finally anything else - PVC, rubber etc

Finally - Cable geometry

1. Helix (like anticables interconnects)
2. ribbon (i.e. like Nordost)
3. Complex geometries (i.e. like Cardas)
4. braided

So a good cable will "generally" adopt an approach using the higher numbers from each of the sections above in some manner

There are some cables that adopt the "weird science" approach, such as magnets, batteries and liquid cables, but they are highly specialized

Regards - Steve

@mahlman,

"If you could toss a vibrant word salad with the same ingredients and taste qualities as the plebian described one, and you could convince people to spend 100 times more for the privilege of digesting your words, why not. There are tons of products and people who buy on hype but would run like scared chickens if a true blind test was available. It is a sort of religious cult where the secret keys to the audio kingdom are possessed by oracular golden ear pontiffs who disdain the idea of blind tests because mere science and physics can't hear what the "educated golden ear" can. Solipsism."



Well put. You sure rustled a few financially invested feathers.

With so many words used to describe the effects and differences between cables why is it that the newcomer is unlikely to ever read that a $1000 cable remains sonically indistinguishable from a pair of twisted coat hangers connecting amp to speakers?  

Why is it also that despite the enormous price differences between various cables that no cable has EVER been claimed to offer ANY sonic superiority?

Suggestion and inference can and do go a long way.

Something worth thinking about before investing in anything more costly than decent gauge copper cable.

Money doesn't grow on trees.

You need banks to print and loan it to governments at eye watering interest rates first.

With so many words used to describe the effects and differences between cables why is it that the newcomer is unlikely to ever read that a $1000 cable remains sonically indistinguishable from a pair of twisted coat hangers connecting amp to speakers?

Because critical listening is learned and developed over time. Some are more capable on developing their ability to perceive than others.

The seasoned art critic is more capable than the novice art critic. The seasoned driver is more capable than the novice driver. The seasoned doctor is more capable than the intern. Somehow you cannot figure the same counts for audiophiles?

Why is it also that despite the enormous price differences between various cables that no cable has EVER been claimed to offer ANY sonic superiority?

The difference in musical performance of cables in audio have been well known and written about for decades.

Suggestion and inference can and do go a long way.

... but deafness will always take one nowhere.

Money doesn’t grow on trees

No we work and earn our own money. And how we choose to spend it is none of your business comrade.

"No we work and earn our own money. And how we choose to spend it is none of your business comrade."

Thank You pauly. Well said.

In the end buy a system that fits your budget and enjoy the music. 

Although you could make a case that difference may not be better, but if everything is based on personal preference then the human race would not have come this far.  We may not know which is better but you would know it when you hear it.

It's like looking at a woman and know that she is good looking, but there is no agree upon rule that can tell one over the other.

In that sense, I am with Plato on this one.

Because its fun to spend big bucks on speaker cable.

+1 for Peter at the CableCompany

An German king with empty treasury ordered by 10 German
Alhemist to turn lead of which (+ coal) Germany was/is rich into
gold. After 10 years all of them were discharged,  They changed
their name in metallurgist  and become succseful in West and
East . Alas turning lead into gold never happened but well 
turning copper into gold. Nordost charge for their copper wire
more than the pure gold cost. 

@ebm

Because its fun to spend big bucks on speaker cable.

hahaha that is the best answer of the week!  love it!

almost as much fun as setting benjamins on fire...

@georgehoffmann60 +1 for Peter at the CableCompany

Agree. A great option for new folks who are curious and wanting to demo first. Its not free.  However, If I had to do it all over again, I'd start with 2-3 pairs of loaner cables from CableCo and skip all the buy & try & resale steps in between. Less cost, huge time saving. They have a decent knowledge base built up over decades of customer feedback, trials, documented.  

Just think if you paid $1 a foot  how much more you would hear