Power Cords/ Conditioner/Surge Protectors

I was in the process of writing a snarky answer to this repetitive question, when I realized, no one is making me read posts that have no interest for me.  So I deleted it.  Talk amongst yourselves.   

Good surge suppression is a MUST for expensive high-end equipment. Even a power conditioner can tremendously help some systems. I just replaced my stock power cable on my Puritan Audio PSM-156 with a new Shunyata - Theta XC Power Cable ($1000 cable) and honestly, I can’t even tell the difference. To be fair I have not done any long-term listening and obviously comparisons between cables with A/B method would be hard since my power conditioner feeds all my components. My short-term memory isn’t great. Also, I have pretty good equipment, but my system may not be resolving enough to hear a difference. My speakers are my weak point by far and after my AXPONA trip this week I’m hoping to come back with a huge speaker upgrade. Lucky for me I bought this cable from Music Direct who has a 60 day return policy. The stock cable on my power conditioner wasn’t a standard cheap black cable either. Buy cables from a place that has a good return policy and will allow you to try them.

Power cords will not affect the performance of components. There is nothing wrong with the AC from your wall outlet that requires a power conditioner. 

@singere  There are a host of threads on your questions that you can peruse.In the end unless you try cords conditioners erc and decide for yourself you really won't know if they do or don't matter with your equipment and your ears/hearing.  Having other people make the decision for you I expect is not what you're really after 

I have owned Moon equipment. Definitely high end audio cords will definitely improve the sound. It is very likely that a power conditioner will help as well. There are occasional instances of power conditioning has not helped... but they are really infrequent. Alway has made a big difference to my. 

On your SIM gear, I recommend warm sounding power cords and interconnects. Thinking Cardas may be the best for you. Simm is not warm at all, and can benefit from Cardas. If you want budget DHLabs, but I really thing you want warm.  

For power conditioning I recommend Shunyata and Isotek. As close to top of the line as you can. It will impact all your components except the amp (direct into the wall).

If you can two direct lines will add a very cost effective improvement. One for the power conditioner and components, one for the amp. 

Shunyata power cords are good, but in the high end ones not the inexpensive ones. 

This video from Shunyata explains why the "last six feet can’t mater" argument is wrong. The question comes up at about 9 minutes and 30 seconds in. 

Does Nelson Pass supply his $$$$ amplifier with fancy cables? Nope. Just a thought.

@bigtwin, @facten 

+1

It's not the dirty power it's the low voltage and surges that destroy audio equipment.look at furman make sure it has lft and surge protection.our power goes out once a week in the rocky Mountains. The engineered left  furman and went to audioquest making the niagra series.you can watch the interview on  upscale audio that Kevin did. I wish I could plug them into the wall directly but I live on a grid that is dangerous.i don't get what I pay for. I have the furman 20 I and niagra 7000 and shunyata.they are all rated at 20 amps and the furman and niagra have capicitors that give 60 plus amps in reserve for transients.enjoy the search.i would go surge protection first the cabel company let's you try cables out.you would have to call them.good luck 

Nearly all surge suppressors use MOV's.

MOV's fail silently with no warning. They go bad from repeated micro-surges. It is recommended by many that you replace your surge suppressors every year or 2 depending on where you live.

I lost $14,000.00 worth of AVR, BD player, and projector to a failed surge suppressor. The worst part is that I knew that they can fail silently, and did nothing about it.

Retail wise, my amps are $13K, my preamp $18K, my DAC $6K, and my digital front end ~$5K.

Being older and wiser now, I spent the money of ZeroSurge suppressors. I have 3 of them. 1 dedicated to the projector, 1 for the AVR, BD player, and a big one with isolated outlets for the 2 channel system (about $600.00 for this one alone).

I will never trust my expensive stuff to a MOV suppressor again unless I replace it yearly. You can buy yourself an expensive audiophile one that will fail silently just like any random one off Amazon, or you can get one that will never fail.

Do some research on the tech behind any device you are considering. I was one of those people who said "been using MOV's for years, never had a problem" until I did.

Also, the Zerosurge also works as an extremely good filter. Others have reported good luck with them when used as a filter, and I have not hear any reports of them "sucking the life out of the music" like you hear with most filters. My electricity is pretty clean, I heard only a very slight improvement in quality.

-Josh

@singere 

You might not need a power conditioner.  I lived in the big city in a house built in 1955. It had some issues. I bought an Audience AR6 and most of the noise went away.  I moved to a brand new house on what used to be a cow pasture on the edge of a town of less than 20k people.  When I hooked up my system, I couldn’t hear any difference whatsoever with or without the Power Conditioner.  About six years ago I moved back to an area with about 2.5 million people into a house that was built in 1962 and every plug only had two slots.  No ground.  Once again, I needed the power conditioner.  I have since run some new lines to my music room and the noise is less, but not gone, so the AR-6 is back

YRMV

Power cords make no objective difference in sound. A surge protector can help if there are lightning strikes or weird power company things. The ones you can buy at your local big box store will suffice. 

I have had power cords make a big difference for the better

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/seeking-a-power-conditioner

+1 to all that have responded. Good information. Thanks.

Just realize no surge protector will protect your equipment from a direct, or near, lightning strike.  However, it’s smart to utilize one for lessor surge events. 

Nearly all surge suppressors use MOV’s.

MOV’s fail silently with no warning. They go bad from repeated micro-surges. It is recommended by many that you replace your surge suppressors every year or 2 depending on where you live.

 

I lost $14,000.00 worth of AVR, BD player, and projector to a failed surge suppressor. The worst part is that I knew that they can fail silently, and did nothing about it.

Any idea what created the surge?

Direct lightning strike?

A utility power overvoltage surge?

Other?

An MOV will not protect from a direct lightning strike or from a utility overvoltage event. They are designed to protect from a high overvoltage transient event that only lasts for a micro to a few milliseconds. In less than a blink of an eye. An MOV will clamp the transient in one nano second or less.  You are wasting your money on cheap SPD power strips. 

FYI, a plug-in type 3 SPD will not protect from a high voltage transient surge or spike, if the branch circuit wiring the SPD is plugged into, is less than 30ft from the main electrical service panel. In this instance the length of the branch circuit wiring matters.

The first line of defense to divert a nearby lightning strike or a Utility power company high voltage transient surge to mother earth ground, is a low resistance System Ground, Grounding Electrode System, connection to mother earth for the main electrical service ground. IEEE recommends 5 ohms or less. Simple Ohms Law is at play. The lower the ground Electrode to soil resistance the better.

Next line of defense is a good Type 1 (at service meter) or Type 2 (at main electrical service equipment disconnecting means) at the electrical service panel.

If the above conditions are not met, the ability of the plug-in Type 3 SPD to protect the connected loads, is greatly diminished.

The best protection for audio equipment during thunderstorms is to unplug the equipment from the AC mains outlet(s).

I lost $14,000.00 worth of AVR, BD player, and projector to a failed surge suppressor.

Internet connection? Wire Coax Cable to your house or Fiber Optics. If wire Coax Cable, was it, is it, properly grounded to the Electrical Service System Ground before it enters your house?

If Fiber optics it needs to enter the house.

.

@mikhailark  Virtually none do which doesn't prove anything one way or the other

@joshua43214  +1 on Zerosurge

@facten exactly. So are they deliberately degrading quality of their expensive gear OR they are actually good engineers and know their stuff? No, what a strange thought.

i hear bits in “musical” network routers are different too. 

Also,  if you have cable for internet,  check to make sure that it is grounded at the box where it enters the house.  We had a lightning strike a few months ago that burned out my modem and router.  Could have been worse; could have destroyed my streamer,  big screen tv, computers,  etc. It also could have started a fire in the house. Upon investigation,  I  found that the cable was not grounded. The ground wire went from the grounding rod up into the cable box,  but was not attached.  The idiot who installed the cable failed to install a grounding block to attach the ground wire.  Lesson learned; don't trust installers to perform properly,  check it yourself.  I immediately installed a grounding block; then switched to fiber when it became available a few months later. 

I used a Brickwall (Zerosurge) for a short while and found it limited dynamics and soundstage compared to going directly into the wall. The same with a Tripp Lite. The AQ Niagara 1200 worked the best with my older gear until I got my Technics integrated and CDP and again, after trying it out of boredom, found that going directly into the wall was best. 

All the best,
Nonoise

First round recommended evaluations:

Emotiva CMX-2+ with AC Line Filter With DC Offset Eliminator and Surge Protection
https://emotiva.com/products/cmx2
Only DC offset eliminator that I’ve used that worked and didn’t kill dynamics (and I’ve tried many).  Unfortunately, only two outlets so I would recommend using one of these Wiremolds if you need more:

• https://www.hawthornestereo.com/wiremold-l10320-9-outlet-ac-power-strip.html (more expensive)
• https://www.gordonelectricsupply.com/p/Wiremold-Ul205Bc-Lc-13In-Gray-W-8-5-15R-Recepts/5623451 (less expensive)

Volex 17504 10 B1 Power Cord (my favorite bang for the buck)
https://www.newark.com/volex/17504-10-b1/power-cord-nema5-15p-iec-c13-2m/dp/96K5636
1875W/15A Rating, use these for all my components in my main system.

Signal Cable MagicPower Power Cord (have used these also)
http://signalcable.com/magicpower.html
Another very good bang for the buck cord, but they are heavy and stiff, which can cause issues in tight areas.

OP, do you have a hifi shop nearby?  This is always the best advice given imo: demo some gear!!! Do not buy blindly online.  Find someone close that deals in Shunyata gear or whatever you're interested in.  Those that say power cords and power conditioning don't matter, I'd challenge them to say have they ever tried it in an acoustically treated space with high end gear?  Ofc on low end gear you're not going to tell a difference.  Maybe your speakers should be first though.  I think room and speakers have the largest impact on sonics.  But yes, these all make a difference, sometimes massively.  And the comment on what Pass ships with their products, who cares?  They aren't cable manufacturers and sending a giant audiophile cable would be cost prohibitive.  But to say they don't make a difference is just incorrect from an objective standpoint

As above, "Good surge suppression is a MUST for expensive high-end equipment." -- ABSOLUTELY TRUE.   +1 to willywonka.

@singere:  Yes, you should add a power conditioner to your audio system.  And, yes you should use all  upgraded aftermarket power cables in your audio system.  Happy listening. 

Full home surge suppressor, nary a worry. No dynamics sucking boxes.

Also love the suppressor for .45acp. Neighbors have no idea I am shooting targets in my backyard.

From the bottom of your list up.  

1. Of course you want surge protection to protect your investment.  Power conditioners like Shunyata and Audience have surge protection.  
2. Conditioning produced a significant improvement in sound quality in my system.  Power Conditioners remove noise on the power line from electro magnetic interference (EMI) by filtration.   Good power conditioners also remove noise from ground loops and isolate your equipment electrically from each other so noise from a computer module in a streamer does not enter the audio system circuit.  If you live in an area that has a high population/home density or has industry, conditions are recommended.  I have had improvements with both Shunyata and Audience.  The higher end models give the most improvement.  Regeneration is another option which also reduces noise by converting noisy AC to DC and regenerating it to pure sine wave AC.  Regeneration is recommended if you live in an area where there are voltage fluctuations.  For example, I use regeneration in a vacation home in VT but power conditioning in my permanent home in the NY-suburbs (voltage fluctuations vs noisy mains).  Good regenerators have surge protection.  
3. Good power cords prevent EMI from entering the system.  EMI will enter a system at the weakest point - the least shielded point in the system.  Good cables also have low resistance and high conductivity, improving SQ.  I use WyWires Platinum on all equipment.  Each wire brand has its own sound characteristics, so brand is a personal choice.  

Good luck   

​​​​​​

ZeroSurge looks interesting. I like the inductor type protection. I have been using SurgeX equipment for years. I use it on installed pro systems. It has models with remote tun on and off, squencing, and low or high voltage turn off.

@kmcong grounding per se won’t help. You need proper protection circuit. Like this https://www.truecable.com/blogs/cable-academy/when-lightning-strikes-ethernet-data-cable-and-lightning-protection

@jea48 

The surge was caused by a pole mounted transformed that exploded. The pole is about 300 meters from me on the main road I live off of, and "downstream" from the branch that runs behind my house. I am the last house before the fuse on my branch and my neighbors lost electricity. the blown pole was kinda cool, it blew the top right off and it burned until the fire department put it out. 

My computer, server and modem are in different rooms, and had fairly new surge suppressors, so they survived just fine. My printer though was unprotected and was also a casualty.

Your point about internet is a very good one. I use subnets in my house to isolate IoT devices for security. My 2 channel system uses fiber ethernet, so it is safe from internet spikes.

The surge was caused by a pole mounted transformed that exploded.

it blew the top right off and it burned until the fire department put it out. 

That was not a transient surge. That was high voltage overvoltage created by the high voltage primary winding crossing over onto the low voltage secondary winding. I assume after hopefully a very short length in time the primary high voltage fuse blew at the pole and opened the high voltage to the transformer.

I do not have any idea what the Utility company’s high voltage to ground voltage is in your area. In my area the voltage is around 7.9KVac to ground.

In the event of an electrical high voltage to Low voltage fault a good portion of the high voltage is taken to ground at the pole. The primary neutral is connected to the secondary neutral outside of the transformer and then connected to a ground wire that is fastened to the pole to the bottom of the pole where it is connected to a ground rod. (Sometimes the ground wire is connect to a square plate on the bottom of the power pole.)

The high voltage, voltage drop to earth soil, is determined by the soil to ground rod resistance. The lower the resistance the greater the high voltage to earth.  The higher the resistance the greater the voltage drop to earth, the remaining high voltage will be on the power line feeding the electrical service of your home. There it runs into another earth connected ground. Any high voltage on the power transformer neutral conductor will again go to ground through the Grounding Electrode System of the Electrical Service. Again the lower the electrode to soil resistance the better.  (Electrode is usually two, minimum, 5/8" X 8ft ground rods driven into the earth.)

The remaining high voltage on two Hot conductors will enter your home.

The high voltage may be only on one Hot line, leg. Or it may be on both.

My computer, server and modem are in different rooms, and had fairly new surge suppressors, so they survived just fine. My printer though was unprotected and was also a casualty.

One thing that can make a difference is the length of the branch circuit wiring from the main electrical service panel. 30ft is the minimum for a Type 3 plug in SPD. The longer the length of the branch circuit wiring from main electrical panel the greater the inductance in the wiring.  

FWIW, I’ve heard stories of an SPD sacrificing itself during a overvoltage event to save its’ connected load. I assume you replaced the SPD. If not, I would.

.

Your point about internet is a very good one. I use subnets in my house to isolate IoT devices for security. My 2 channel system uses fiber ethernet, so it is safe from internet spikes.

.

I lost $14,000.00 worth of AVR, BD player, and projector to a failed surge suppressor. The worst part is that I knew that they can fail silently, and did nothing about it.

Did you have internet connected to this equipment?

Is the internet that that enters your home Fiber or wire?

.

@mikhailark "

"So are they deliberately degrading quality of their expensive gear OR they are actually good engineers and know their stuff? No, what a strange thought."

Who said anything about the designers/engineers degrading the power supplies etc in their gear? I didn't. What I said and what I will again is that just because they  supply generic power cords doesn't prove one way or the other that there will or won't be SQ benefits by using "upgraded" power cords, or power conditioners. . Now, you may be someone who sees/hears no value in them, that's fine. I do, but not all that I've tried have made an impact while with others it's quite apparent that they do in my systems. Unless one establishes that for oneself the rest is meaningless. Enjoy listening as best suits you

@bigtwin 

In response to the OP you wrote:

"I WAS IN THE PROCESS OF WRITING A SNARKY ANSWER TO THIS REPETITIVE QUESTION.WHEN I REALIZED NO ONE IS MAKING ME READ POSTS THAT HAVE NO INTEREST FOR ME. SO I DELETED IT. TALK AMONGST YOURSELVES." 

What an arrogant and selfish response. I have been in situations before where I have brought up subjects previously posted in depth. It happens. But instead of showing some decorum and sensitivity in directing the OP to search the archives, you had to give a dig at your impatient annoyance and wave off a fellow Audiogon member like a leaf on your driveway. Shame on you.

@singere 

Since all of the good advice that has followed the above mentioned screed, you should be confident that people here will still help and be supportive despite the repetitive subject matter.

I encourage you to experiment. 
 

I tried it with Moon 390 and M400s through Sonus faber Olympica Nova Vs. I heard a difference- the noise floor dropped and specifically the lower frequencies seemed to be clearer. And I switched back and forth between the stock and the cables. I kept them. 

I didn’t expect the difference to be worth the price - it was to me.  Hence my recommendation to try and see if it is to you  

@judsauce  Now you hurt my feelings. 😭

I wrote about why I recommend Furman with SMP instead of ZeroSurge or Brickwall today.  All three have series mode protection.  The patents on it expired a long time ago, by the way.  Furman tests better, and has additional features like Linear Filtering (LiFT) and on some AR (voltage regulation) not to mention convenience features like switched outlets, etc.

If you already have a Brickwall or Zerosurge I'm sure they'll continue to deliver excellent protection for a very long time.  If you are looking for new I'd suggest Furman with SMP to be better values.

See the blog post for Wirecutter’s actual surge testing.  AFAIK, they are the ONLY source of third party surge testing.  Every other review, opinion piece out there focuses on specs. 

Should I also add power conditioner/surge protector to the equipment? Again, does it change anything sonically? If recommended do you look at Shunyata, Panamax etc.

For power cables the thing I’m most insistent on is having them shielded.  What good is it to clean up the noise in your AC line with an expensive conditioner when Wifi and Ethernet and HDMI cables are going to induce more noise back into the AC?  I don’t think you need to go very expensive and I DIY mine but Amazon also has shielded AC cables as well.

I’ve never felt any of the boutique conditioners were in my budget but I’ve used Furman with SMP/LiFT for a long time.  In some locations where I had many very close neighbors I definitely felt it improved the sound quality and made it all smoother and more relaxed to listen to.  Any surge protector with series mode protection is a good choice because they all filter at very low frequencies, around 3 kHz. 

Panamax is owned by the same parent company as Furman but the Furman feature mix is better IMHO.  Both offer a _lot_ of features and buzzwords so important to make sure you know exactly what model has what feature.  For Furman, SMP/LiFT and EVS always seem to go together but they do make products with none of those too.  If you also want to make sure your voltage is stable regardless of season or HVAC use look for AR as well.

@bigtwin and now you know 

@singere 

the best option is to try one upgraded PC on all devices to hear differences. 

@jea48

Thanks for such a detailed and informed explanation! It never fails to amaze me the depth of knowledge so willingly shared by folks like you on the Forum.

https://cullencable.com

Puritan Labs conditioners.  You'll find your way.  Best of luck.  Cheers

Everything matters. 
I have experimented with several power cords.
generally speaking the better the equipment and the power supply, the less you need exotic power cords. 
However, all of my equipment has some level of upgraded power cords.

That said, if you stream, I highly recommend a high end network box to clean up your Ethernet signal.  I have used the UpTone Audio Etheregen and love it. Easily matches any power cord upgrade I have made for less money in most cases. 

I was going to get a Puritan PSM156, but saw reviews of the Kinki / Vinshine Tai Hang Power Enhancer.  Bought it and am so impressed, I bought a second one. Tai Hang Power Enhancer

@roadcykler 

AC cables are 100% objectively audible, and often measurable, I wish it wasn’t the case, but it is.  Shunyata Research is the best stuff imo.  And a great value compared to the field of options.  

I will admit upfront that I am a Shunyata fanboy . . . not because I get paid or sell them, but because each cable that I have put in my system has elevated the sound quality, starting with my Sigma power cable for my ARC REF 6 pre.  A clear and easily audible immediate improvement over stock.  My MSB Discrete/Premier Power supply was next and then the Pass 250.8 amp.  Each power cable made an improvement, although it was most obvious with the ARC.  The Sigma speaker cables were next.  A very audible improvement from Shunyata's already good Alpha v.1's.  But as I have said on other threads, putting in a Shunyata Everest power conditioner really was like putting in a new component into the system.  Everything sounded better, from soundstage width and depth to placement of the instruments, to a "black background" for the instruments.  I was very surprised.  Plus, as an added bonus, I had a lightning strike that fried my entire HVAC system and generator, but nothing happened to my stereo system since everything was plugged into the Everest.  So I can recommend Shunyata easily.

However, cables are also system dependent.  The higher end your system, the more you will notice a difference.  The less resolving your system, relatively speaking, the less of a difference you will notice, obviously.  But I speak only for myself, from my experience. YMMV.

No. None of those things will improve the sound of your system, but they may hurt it. Anyone who says different ignores science, physics, and/or could be one of the many snake oil salesmen ruining this hobby. They're straight up liars. Wish this industry had some regulations...

+1 whole house surge suppressors. I am fond of the Environmental Potential brand. It uses self healing thermal MOV’s. 

You shouldn’t take advice from anyone in this post and consult Moon Audio on what they recommend.