Will I be able to hear a difference/is my equipment sensitive enough to notice a difference; or will a typical surge protector suffice? Otherwise, will it be a waste of money to spend money on a low priced conditioner?
Anyone who gives you a definitive answer to your question would be speculating. There are too many variables - including the nature of your existing AC power - for anyone to do anything else.
Music Direct has a money-back return policy and they are nice people to work with. So if you're curious, you might want to order from them and decide for yourself.
My power source is standard residential 110v. I live in FL and we get a lot of summer storms. That being said, when it doesn't get knocked out in said storms, the power is fairly stable with no brown/black out. My house was built in 1958 and the wiring has not been updated.
There are power distributors, surge protectors, and power "conditioners" (of a great variety of technologies). To hear a significant difference, my experience is that you need to invest some fairly substantial $$.
My
power source is standard residential 110v ... the power is fairly stable with no brown/black out.
Are you sure? If you're correct, your voltage is quite low and out of spec. Nominal voltage in the US is 120VAC
±
5 percent, so you should measure 114VAC minimum.
Are you sure? If you're correct, your voltage is quite low and out of spec. Nominal voltage in the US is 120VAC ± 5 percent, so you should measure 114VAC minimum.
My exact voltage is 114.8v. You are correct that 120v is standard, however voltages vary greatly depending on your grid. Regardless of voltage, are cheap ac conditioners worth it?
Those two are nothing more than overbuilt power strips. For not much more you could get a Synergistic Blue or Orange outlet that really would make a difference. But there's a lot of other more cost effective improvements and it would make sense to do those first.
If you need more outlets get a cheap power strip and don't sweat that it looks like a cheap power strip. If you want better outlets go Blue or Orange. Or even better get a used Synergistic Master Coupler, there was a guy on here recently with a whole bunch of them for only $200. He may still have a few left.
Agree with others that a cheap power conditioner is probably not worth your $, and this area is very unique to each individual’s household power situation and system. I’d buy a good used conditioner you can turn around and sell for little/no loss if it doesn’t do anything for you. I’d consider getting something like a used Audience AR2P for about $350. If something at that level makes no improvement I’d sell it and put $ into something else that does. I do think it’s worth exploring though, because if it it makes an improvement it can be significant. Best of luck.
Owens Corning acoustic panels. OC703 is industry standard found inside a lot of expensive acoustic panels. Look around for a hardware store that will sell you individual panels. Cuts easily, and once covered in fabric looks and sounds just like the professional stuff. https://www.tmsoundproofing.com/Owens-Corning-703-1-inch-Fiberglass-Panel.html
Then when you’ve tried this stuff and realize holy crap this guy knows what he’s talking about PM and I will hook you up with the really good stuff. https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/8367
Look close, notice two Green Dream and one Black Widow PHT on my tone arm, plus one ECT on the tone arm base and motor. They aren’t there for the looks, I can assure you that!
Stabilizing your VAC is very important. If it's all over as you said. I can't think of anything more important for expensive equipment. It will shorten the life there is no doubt. Whether it sounds better depends on what your filtering out, and letting in so to speak... Different outlets on many maintainers and cleaners do different things. If you plug into the wrong one, it can impair the performance of a given piece.
Normally to filter HF, 40KHz> they use iron ferrite rings. Some complain that while using those rings, some systems lack luster, lose dynamics and brilliance. I've noticed any source I use sounds better when NOT having ferrite rings in the VAC pathway.. I try to stay out of trouble, not get out of it.
No voltage cleaner and maintainer is a sure way to ruin great equipment. Whether it improves SQ, is just a secondary benefit, longevity it their primary function. I can't see how your SQ wouldn't improve if your just plugged into the wall currently.
My SQ was improved 35 years ago, I never thought of NOT using a cleaner/maintainer. Even my plate amps amps have them. NOT surge suppressors, maintainers/cleaners and suppressors.
They don't have to cost a fortune to do a great job.. Just might have to do a couple thing to make them quieter, or pay a fortune for someone else to do it for you.. Either, Or.. as long as you have something...
the OP doesn't mention if he has dedicated outlets for the system. if he doesn't have those, he should consider that first before doing the pc that he is looking at.
I bought a Furman for work where I have a couple of 300b mono blocks, ampex preamp, Fairchild 412 turntable and omega speakers. It made such a difference I bought two more for my systems at home where it made no difference.
Hi ecrotty Your question is a very sensitive one and if you play your cards right you can be ahead of the game. I happen to have the Furman that you are considering. I also have a Zerosurge ten outlet power surge protector and a Synergistic Research Powercell 12 UEF SE. The best use of your money at this point of time would be to get an electrician run a dedicated line for you with 10 gauge wire and 20 amp fuse terminated in a good hospital grade outlet. From there you can start testing different power solutions and pick the one that works best for your system. While you have the electrician, have him install a whole house surge protector for you. Get one on Amazon for less than $200. It takes about 15 minutes to install. The whole job can be done in an hour (dedicated line plus surge). I hope that helps.
Before I bought any conditioner I would install a dedicated circuit. After that if you have power surges or brown outs the next consideration should be Environmental Potentials EP-2050 system. Cost about $1,000. After those two moves you should look into power regeneration. Conditioners are the last move.
I had an AudioQuest Niagara 1200 on my system and it didn't do much for my sound. Moved it to the office system just for the surge protection. I'm a McIntosh tube guy. I just last month added a McIntosh MPC1500 Power Controller and it made the most significant improvement I've heard in my system, by leaps and bounds. Of course, it costs as much as your system combined. But, Holy Smokes, what a magnificent upgrade it was. Wowza. I love it.
The devices linked in the OP are not power conditioners. They are power strips with surge limiting. They will not improve the sound, but they may be helpful at preventing damage from power surges and lightning strikes on the power line.
Living in Florida with lots of storms, I would be looking for a Series mode (SM) type surge suppressor. The Pangea unit you list is an audiophile power strip and offers NO device protection. The Furman does offer SM protection, but I believe also has MOV devices, which are sacrificial and will fail after one or more events.
Other SM protectors are also offered by Zero Surge and Brickwall. These units offer very good protection and line filtering at a reasonable price. One of these two would be my call.
So basically the best bang for the buck right now is a dedicated line from my panel and a high quality surge protector. Thank you all for the information, it definitely helps weed through all the garbage out there!
ecrottyOP4 posts05-04-2020 9:40am"So basically the best bang for the buck right now is a dedicated line from my panel and a high quality surge protector. Thank you all for the information, it definitely helps weed through all the garbage out there!"
I recommend an Audioquest Powerquest 2....short money and it's designed to protect your gear from surges etc. It's a piece that "financially" fits your current rig. It offers protection. As others have said, you'll have to spend pretty substantial dough if you want "better sound" from a conditioner and there are many approaches to this. IMO spend your money on room acoustics first but put in something to protect your gear. A whole house surge protector mounted in the service box is a great first step.
Unless you want to roll the dice concerning system destruction via a lightning strike, you should at the minimum immediately install a guaranteed surge protector. Anecdote: A friend of mine in Tampa who sells/installs commercial grade computer systems has seen the destruction of an installation in a high-rise office building where a bolt of lightning struck the glass curtain wall and arced directly to the system...bypassing the surge protector! An "act of God" if there ever was one.
I was using a Furman Elite 15i and just did a demo of the Synergistic Research PowerCell 8 UEF SE. it is night and day! The dynamics and holographic imaging are amazing. I’m actually going with a combination of SR power cords/interconnects and speaker cables along with fuses and HFTs. Just amazed at what this company brings to the table. Purchasing through Alfred at HighendElectronics. Super! Super! Seller! Oh yes dedicated circuit is a huge benefit!
I was using a Furman Elite 15i and just did a demo of the Synergistic Research PowerCell 8 UEF SE. it is night and day!
As I’d expect! The SR PowerCell is $2,000 and the Furman is $450. +1 on working with Alfred on SR products. But your example wasn’t a "fair fight"....ha.
@three Yes I concede. I guess my point was to emphasize how important power is in the mix and I never used to think so but I’m a believer! I have wondered about the PS Audio Regenerators if anyone has any experience with those. Probably keep the SR stuff though. Alfred has been awesome to work with.
+ 1 re -"
A whole house surge protector mounted in the service box is a great first step.
" However, you also still need one at your equipment. I live in a suburb of Memphis, we get bad storms with lots of lightning and have had lightning take out the whole home surge protector twice. And you only know if it's been taken out if you remove the panel cover to check and see if the protector "indicator" is still lit
I was looking through some pictures of people systems one day and I saw this out of place white box on the floor. The guy had an amazing system probably 100 K and he had everything plugged into this white box. I found a company on the Internet, it was a conditioner, surge suppressor, A bunch of other stuff I don’t understand. Then I found the unit on eBay used for 399. I guess from what I can find it’s probably four times that new. Here’s a link to the manufacture of the unit.
it’s the big daddy unit. Model number ABC1600-11. It weighs in at 68 pounds and maxes out at 16 A .That’s a lot of copper. Below is the link to the eBay site. My guess is that some electrical contractor remove these from a job while they were remodeling.
I noticed the difference when I plug my entire system into this unit. I live in a normal suburb in Ohio.Also, I don’t have any of those fancy $300 power cords in this equation, it’s all just factory power cords.
Whole panel supressors SHOULD be used, but get a series mode protector near your delicate gear. Please note the activation voltage of whole house surge suppressors is often quite high, ~ 300V, and take a while to activate. I installed one in a Square D panel and the instructions clearly recommended additional protection at your gear. I’ve read from a single source that lightning strikes can induce a surge in the wiring itself, it doesn’t have to come down the line, so that’s another reason to have a suppressor near the gear.
I live in Florida, Miami actually, and would not even have any of my three systems not on high quality surge protectors ever again. Lost two high end subs to power spikes before I fitted the 2 video systems up. Audio system used to be on voltage regulating transformers which also blew on a spike and is on surge protection now.
Being an electronics technician, my recommendation would be the Furman, will get the RF. but will quit if hit hard by a large spike. and an isolation transformer with voltage hold circuits to keep voltage steady, filter spikes, low voltage, RF, high voltage. That is what I did. Tripplight makes a reasonable one for a few hundred dollars that is much cheaper cost than esoteric over priced millionaire conditioners. They work fine. My setup is dead quiet full volume.
Some (modest) amount of power treatment is at least warranted as an experiment, just to pay respect to the quality of gear one has invested in.
The questions get trickier when one asks: (a) how much investment is worth the $$ and (b) which kinds of treatment and how much should one spend.
I suppose the trickier questions can be tackled by doing comparative listening (with various power gear) but BEFORE one goes and tries all that it would help to narrow down *what* to compare.
So, here are my questions:
How might one measure the quality of power on their line prior to listening?
What tool would one use?
What measurements strongly correlate with audible effects that detract from the music?
I purchased the Audioquest Powerquest 2 at my dealer's recommendation. I was returning a $1,000+ power conditioner I had been demoing and decided against buying. I was thinking there was no way in the world a $199 unit would work. But it did. There was a significant improvement in the sound. I would suspect the results differ based on how revealing your system is. But, I immediately recommended it to several friends. Order one from Amazon and you can return it if you'd don't hear a difference.
Having lived in large cities through out most of my life I’ve noticed a large change with noisy AC having moved to a small community.
I’ve spent lots of money over the decades on conditioning , regeneration and what have you and was never content for long always looking to tweek and upgrade something. Currently we live in a small community and I’m much more content with my system then I can ever remember though I use Synergistic conditioner and Ac cords through out a further drop in the noise floor was immediately noticed something that wasn’t so evident living in a city .
ecrotty if you live in a large city try out regenerator and transformer base conditioner if you can.
After some time, I noticed I was getting a very faint, low-level hum/buzz at system idle with no audio or video signal passing through the system, and eventually figured out that my cable box hadn't been routed through the Belkin's "Cable TV In/Out" connections (my system doubles as HT/2-channel). It was just HDMI-connected to the A/V receiver. Re-routing through the Belkin eliminated the background buzz without any noticeable change to any video/audio signals. FWIW
First off a whole house surge protecter was installed when after a brown out knocked out all the AC unites and the septic pump failed. Good times in a California valley summer. Several others have counseled this. Hint. Hint.
If I could have replaced interior electrical lines I would have. Everything thing from the wall socket out was done. Socket, power cord to power conditioner, and power cord to amplifier were all part of it.
+1 on twoleftears. An inexpensive power strip isn’t going to cut it.
follow me Ok? How much is your equipment worth? You have a greater likely good of a blackout or brownout, than an electrical storm interference. Perhaps I would lean toward a conditioner or some such equipment that would protect your equipment firstly. I would see that as being number 1 on the list. How expensive it is is belongs to your pockets and how much you love your equipment. AG
You must have a verified phone number and physical address in order to post in the Audiogon Forums. Please return to Audiogon.com and complete this step. If you have any questions please contact Support.
