Power Conditioners

Anyone using a Powerisolator from Transparent Cable?
Another +vote for Richard Gray Power Company 400 Pro.

Happy Listening!

@atmasphere,

You may find this interesting.  This is Joseph Sola’s original patent from 1938 for a constant potential transformer, the forerunner of what Sola makes today.

https://patents.google.com/patent/US2143745A/en

@puffball08 Nice! Sola has managed a nice improvement on where they were with this 20 years ago! 3% THD seems to be the number; A good power conditioner should be able to do about 0.5% THD (Elgar was getting this with their conditioners 35-40 years ago).


I tried using a ferro-resonant device made by Sola about 17 years ago in a power supply that featured AC line regulation- the noise out of the transformer was so profound that some of the circuitry in the amplifier developed oscillations. It would be interesting to revisit this and see if a conditioner with a device like this would be practical.

atmasphere- 
Your point about non-sinusoid output waveform and generated secondary harmonics are well taken.

However, Sola mitigated this by adding an additional “neutralizer” winding in the secondary.  The following document contains a description of how it works.  Refer to the PDF page 4 under the heading “Ferroresonant power conditioners and harmonics”.  

https://www.emerson.com/documents/automation/product-guide-solahd-power-conditioners-en-us-99748.pdf

Yes, because the waveform is not sinusoidal. So a lot of higher harmonics will be present that are rarely on the AC line. Electronics tend to be fairly sensitive to the 5th harmonic (300Hz in the US) which is much greater when a ferro-resonant device is used, unless there is a filter to remove the harmonics and thus restore the output to a sine wave.

“I don't see why- ferroresonant transformers make a fair bit of noise in their output...”


Noise attenuation

• 120 dB common mode
• 60 dB transverse mod

Is that a lot of noise on the output? 

I’m surprised in this thread and some others no mention is made of Sola ferroresonant transformers.

I don't see why- ferroresonant transformers make a fair bit of noise in their output, which should be a sine wave for best results. They are good at line voltage regulation, but otherwise make for a lot more noise on the line than the line would usually otherwise have.

Anybody tried Furutech GTO-D2 NCF or e-tp609 NCF?

I’m surprised in this thread and some others no mention is made of Sola ferroresonant transformers. 

https://solahevidutysales.com/mcr_portable_series_power_conditioner.htm

They’re not sexy looking, they’re heavy, they buzz, they naturally run hot, they’re not cheap and they’re hard to find (mostly because they’re made to order).

In spite of their drawbacks, not many other AC line conditioners do as much with so few components as a Sola.  No semiconductors of any kind.  No sacrificial MOV either, no need.

And yeah, I’ve used a MCR series for years and would not consider anything else.  And yeah, it lives in another room where I can’t hear it buzz.

Use the cheap ones for cell phone chargers, and the better constructed ones for your audio components. Make sure you run them in for a full day or so with a fan, TV or other appliance, then do several listening tests. The power conditioner may sound good with some components but not others. Verify for yourself. You may very well end up with one brand for the source components and another for the amps or subwoofer. 
If you use a surge suppressor, plug that in closest to the breaker panel, if possible.

@foster_9  Thanks for the suggestion. I'll save it for future reference. Much appreciated.

Knowing this is an older thread l’ll still make a late suggestion even though you may have made a purchase already. The inexpensive but good WAudio AC Power Purifier is very effective. I would recommend only for use with front end gear (DAC, CD Player, maybe turntable) - not an amp. I use mine with my DAC. Also, Amazon allows 30 day returns and I think the device is a great value.  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00XWL2VVK/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

This should be all you would ever need. Balanced power and the best surge protection.......

https://www.furmanpower.com/product/20a-prestige-symmetrically-balanced-power-conditioner-P-2400%20I...

I have installed dedicated circuits in my current house and in another previous home in the Midwest. In each case they made a difference my non -audiophile wife could hear.

However, I am now using a lead -acid battery generator and it is much better. It generates a perfect 60hz sine wave. The model i use is a Goal Zero Yeti1250. I would have preferred one of their lithium -ion generators because they are so much lighter.

Based on this experience I should have saved the $$$ and just gone with the regenerator.

My limited experience has revealed that surge protection limits dynamics and soundstage size. Two units that I've tried are the Brick Wall and Tripp Lite brands and both negatively affected the dynamics and soundstage. Others here have praised them, leading me to believe either they can't hear all that well or their systems aren't that resolving.

Even a Blue Circle Thingee without surge protection didn't sound as well as going directly into the wall. I barely heard a difference with my Marantz Reference integrated but it was plain as day with my Kinki Studio integrated.

It was when I tried the High Fidelity MC-0.5 that I got some taming of the AC nasties. Two more of them further improved the sound. But, it was when I got the Audioquest Niagara 1200 that I finally realized the potential of my system.

Nothing negative, everything positive, to say about it. The noise floor was so lowered that dynamics were naturally increased. Sound stage widened just a bit more (I've always had good results with that) but the depth and layering were greatly improved, again, from that lowered noise floor.

Tone, timbre and life like recreations are the norm now, as are frequency extension in both directions. Everything sounds just so much more authentic, completing the illusion, which is all it really is, but that is the point of all of this, right? 😀

All the best,
Nonoise

amg56747 posts05-08-2020 8:51am

follow me Ok? How much is your equipment worth?

+ 1, they are not for sound, they are for protection. The better sound is a byproduct of a cleaned up AC supply. Kinda goes hand in hand.. If it’s pretty clean to begin with, it might be hard to tell the difference..

Plug everything into cleaners, maintainers, conditioners, Tripp Lite is perfect, with a noise fix I have. Very quiet, NOW...

My issue is "try this, it sound better", WHY? What the heck did they leave out? LOL I want the protection.

Regards

Protecting your stuff against any electrical enomalies should be everyone’s priorities if you ever had to deal with a claim with your insurance provider, sometimes you are not in good hands . If your not sure how well your stuff would be protected during a lightning storm plain common sense should tell you just unplug it .

If a power strip gives you piece of mind great however like Atmosphere said power strips are not conditioners . Using conditioners , re-generation and transformer based over the past 30 years I’ve been disappointed with many manufacturers claims and enthusiastic reviews however I finally learned none of these devices are going to work as advertised for everyone.

Just recently I tried out , “home trial“ the conditioner and Ac cords from Synergistic Research they worked at dropping the noise floor noticeably well and as a added bonus they provide a decent quality power cord with their line of conditioners . My previous Inakustic 3500 conditioner and Inakustic power cords we’re replaced by SR conditioner.

Consider spending the money running a dedicated spur to your HiFi and everything connected to it, TV, PC, whatever, get it all isolated from the rest of the houses wiring. Far more bang for your buck. I also use a pair of Weiduka AC8.8's, very good value for money and much better than the Monster units they replaced.

Here's the most brilliant bit of marketing I've ever read, from the Pangea page, listed by the OP:

There are zero current-limiting circuits or electronic components of any kind inside."

The Furman conditioners with LiFT and SMP have lots of components which protect you against surge and also reduce noise starting at around 3 kHz.

If you want a "straight wire" with nothing changed, may I suggest the much cheaper kit from Parts Connexion:

https://www.partsconnexion.com/connex-kits.html

Personally, for $200 I'd rather have a Furman PST-8 which actually protects the equipment and reduced audible noise than a fancy box for power outlets, but that's just me.

https://amzn.to/2WKNjwB

I got Richard Gray 400 pro in my main system and Audioquest Powerquest 3 amp in my secondary system and very happy with both

I love music, gear is too expensive

I’ll give another plug for the Audioquest powerquest.  I just bought a powerquest 3 on sale for my parents system.  They have some Focal Aria 926.  We all felt like the sound improved after we plugged all their gear into it.  Especially in the low end.  It seemed fuller.  It’s tough to quantify.  And I do worry about confirmation bias.  But you get peace of mind, and a warranty to boot from Audioquest.  And you don’t have to shell out more $ for another plug since the unit comes with one.  What’s not to like?  

iFi AC iPurifier is $100 each and work very well. I would start with 1 or 2 of those. Highly recommended.

SO WHAT EXACTLY WAS DEEMED INAPPROPRIATE  ABOUT MY POST THAT WAS REMOVED BY THE DESIGNATED MODERATOR? SEEMS LIKE OVER - REACHING FOLLOWED BY A LAZY ATTEMPT OF A  BLANKETED EXPLANATION, WHICH IS TO SAY IN THIS CASE NO EXPLANATION!

Hi ggc

Your Post was removed by a moderator

2020-05-08 16:13:22 UTC

You may want to look into this as a Cost Effective, Plug and Play Optionhttp://https//www.audiogon.com/listings/lisa0bhe-audience-adept-response-ar...

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You just gotta experiment, Erik your recommendation of the Furmans Lift and SMP I tried , I bought two of them one for a modem and switch ect on a separate Ac line and I tried the other one on my tv and digital cable box ect .
I then tried it my digital front end components for a few days and didn’t really notice any appreciable difference in the noise floor overall transparency. The digital video feed to my tv is excellent though with the Furman conditioner it was very difficult to actually see any difference in clarity ,contrast ,  color and what have you .

Sure on a budget and keeping your components safe I guess they would be great for the piece of mind however in my home they really did nothing though the Synergistic conditioner and power cords I tried did make a immediate difference with my tv and playback with my digital front end components though at many times the cost of the Furman conditioners and I still use the Furman on my modem ect for now .

Being an electronics technician, my recommendation would be the Furman, will get the RF.

Hey there, @pcrhkr - Furman makes different grades of similar gear. The Furman models which I recommend have LiFT and SMP, which are effective down to 3 kHz.  The series mode suppression is among the best there is.

If you have only looked at their less expensive line, your comment above makes sense.

Best,
E

follow me Ok? How much is your equipment worth? You have a greater likely good of a blackout or brownout, than an electrical storm interference. Perhaps I would lean toward a conditioner or some such equipment that would protect your equipment firstly. I would see that as being number 1 on the list. How expensive it is is belongs to your pockets and how much you love your equipment.
AG

Like you where I dwell the power is poor.

First off a whole house surge protecter was installed when after a brown out knocked out all the AC unites and the septic pump failed. Good times in a California valley summer. Several others have counseled this. Hint. Hint.

If I could have replaced interior electrical lines I would have. Everything thing from the wall socket out was done. Socket, power cord to power conditioner, and power cord to amplifier were all part of it.

+1 on twoleftears. An inexpensive power strip isn’t going to cut it.

I'm rural, and my area is subjected to power spikes, dips and outages.  Some years ago I bought a Belkin PF60 (https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/review-belkin-pure-av-silver-series-pf-60-ac-filter) for the surge protection, not any power "conditioning" designed to make my system sound better. 

After some time, I noticed I was getting a very faint, low-level hum/buzz at system idle with no audio or video signal passing through the system, and eventually figured out that my cable box hadn't been routed through the Belkin's "Cable TV In/Out" connections (my system doubles as HT/2-channel).  It was just HDMI-connected to the A/V receiver.  Re-routing through the Belkin eliminated the background buzz without any noticeable change to any video/audio signals.
FWIW

Even expensive Power conditioners did not make sound better.  Actually my Pass Labs mono blocks  did not like them. 

Having lived in large cities through out most of my life I’ve noticed a large change with noisy AC having moved to a small community.

I’ve spent lots of money over the decades on conditioning , regeneration and what have you and was never content for long always looking to tweek and upgrade something.
Currently we live in a small community and I’m much more content with my system then I can ever remember though I use Synergistic conditioner and Ac cords through out a further drop in the noise floor was immediately noticed something that wasn’t so evident living in a city .

ecrotty if you live in a large city try out regenerator and transformer base conditioner if you can. 

I purchased the Audioquest Powerquest 2 at my dealer's recommendation. I was returning a $1,000+ power conditioner I had been demoing and decided against buying. 
I was thinking there was no way in the world a $199 unit would work. But it did. There was a significant improvement in the sound.
I would suspect the results differ based on how revealing your system is.
But, I immediately recommended it to several friends.
Order one from Amazon and you can return it if you'd don't hear a difference.

Here’s what I assume:

• Surge protection/protecting gear is a must.
• Some (modest) amount of power treatment is at least warranted as an experiment, just to pay respect to the quality of gear one has invested in.

The questions get trickier when one asks:
(a) how much investment is worth the $$ and
(b) which kinds of treatment and how much should one spend.

I suppose the trickier questions can be tackled by doing comparative listening (with various power gear) but BEFORE one goes and tries all that it would help to narrow down *what* to compare.

So, here are my questions: 

• How might one measure the quality of power on their line prior to listening?
• What tool would one use? 
• What measurements strongly correlate with audible effects that detract from the music?

To be more specific, get both the Furman for plugging in the power conditioner. 

Being an electronics technician,  my recommendation would be the Furman,  will get the RF. but will quit if hit hard by a large spike. and an isolation transformer with voltage hold circuits to keep voltage steady, filter spikes, low voltage, RF, high voltage.  That is what I did.  Tripplight makes a reasonable one for a few hundred dollars that is much cheaper cost than esoteric over priced millionaire conditioners. They work fine.   My setup is dead quiet full volume. 

I live in Florida, Miami actually, and would not even have any of my three systems not on high quality surge protectors ever again.  Lost two high end subs to power spikes before I fitted the 2 video systems up.  Audio system used to be on voltage regulating transformers which also blew on a spike and is on surge protection now.

First of all...

the effect of filters and power-conditioners strongly depends on
your "current" situation at home.

I moved several times to different areas and the effect never
was the same.

So I would recommend to make tests at home with loaned
equipment.

My recommendation is the NuPrime Pure AC-4.

https://nuprimeaudio.com/product/pure-ac4/?v=b0c4bc877c29

I never had such positive cleaning effects for less than 5000 bucks.

Can anyone explain the differences between the SR Powercell 8 UEF SE and the PS Audio Stellar Regens? 

Whole panel supressors SHOULD be used, but get a series mode protector near your delicate gear. Please note the activation voltage of whole house surge suppressors is often quite high, ~ 300V, and take a while to activate. I installed one in a Square D panel and the instructions clearly recommended additional protection at your gear. I’ve read from a single source that lightning strikes can induce a surge in the wiring itself, it doesn’t have to come down the line, so that’s another reason to have a suppressor near the gear.

Further thoughts here:

https://inatinear.blogspot.com/2019/04/power-management-for-frugal-audiophiles.html

I was looking through some pictures of people systems one day and I saw this out of place white box on the floor. The guy had an amazing system probably 100 K and he had everything plugged into this white box. I found a company on the Internet, it was a conditioner, surge suppressor, A bunch of other stuff I don’t understand. Then I found the unit on eBay used for 399. I guess from what I can find it’s probably four times that new. Here’s a link to the manufacture of the unit.

https://www.powervar.com/-/media/ametekpowervar/pdf/products/power%20conditioners/medical%20power%20...

it’s the big daddy unit. Model number  ABC1600-11. It weighs in at 68 pounds and maxes out at 16 A .That’s a lot of copper. Below is the link to the eBay site. My guess is that some electrical contractor remove these from a job while they were remodeling.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/PowerVar-16-ABC1600-11-Power-Conditioner/124114819278?epid=6037059194&h...

I noticed the difference when I plug my entire system into this unit. I live in a normal suburb in Ohio.Also, I don’t have any of those fancy $300 power cords in this equation, it’s all just factory power cords.

Oops forgot about my whole house surge protector with which I'm  happy

+ 1 re -" A whole house surge protector mounted in the service box is a great first step. "  However,  you also still need one at your equipment. I live in a suburb of Memphis, we get bad storms with lots of lightning and have had lightning take out the whole home surge protector twice. And you only know if it's been taken out if you remove the panel cover to check and see if the protector "indicator" is still lit

With all that I tried, I sent them all back.  Try one, but listen carefully after a few hours to hear the warts instead of the "change"

Try the Stellar Power Plant 3 from PS Audio. Give them a call to see if it can power your whole system. They have a good return policy.

Also for a big difference, try acoustic wall treatments from GIK. Call them for suggestions.

@three
Yes I concede. I guess my point was to emphasize how important power is in the mix and I never used to think so but I’m a believer!
I have wondered about the PS Audio Regenerators if anyone has any experience with those. Probably keep the SR stuff though. Alfred has been awesome to work with.

@audiosaurus

I was using a Furman Elite 15i and just did a demo of the Synergistic Research PowerCell 8 UEF SE. it is night and day!

As I’d expect! The SR PowerCell is $2,000 and the Furman is $450. +1 on working with Alfred on SR products. But your example wasn’t a "fair fight"....ha.

I was using a Furman Elite 15i and just did a demo of the Synergistic Research PowerCell 8 UEF SE. it is night and day! The dynamics and holographic imaging are amazing. I’m actually going with a combination of SR power cords/interconnects and speaker cables along with fuses and HFTs. Just amazed at what this company brings to the table. Purchasing through Alfred at HighendElectronics. Super! Super! Seller! Oh yes dedicated circuit is a huge benefit!

Unless you want to roll the dice concerning system destruction via a lightning strike, you should at the minimum immediately install a guaranteed surge protector.
Anecdote: A friend of mine in Tampa who sells/installs commercial grade computer systems has seen the destruction of an installation in a high-rise office building where a bolt of lightning struck the glass curtain wall and arced directly to the system...bypassing the surge protector!
An "act of God" if there ever was one. 

I recommend an Audioquest Powerquest 2....short money and it's designed to protect your gear from surges etc. It's a piece that "financially" fits  your current rig. It offers protection. As others have said, you'll have to spend pretty substantial dough if you want "better sound" from a conditioner and there are many approaches to this. IMO spend your money on room acoustics first but put in something to protect your gear. A whole house surge protector mounted in the service box is a great first step.