KEF's meta material gimmick?

I wouldn’t be surprised to find out meta material is cheaper and easier to implement than the previous solution. I think the reason ls50 owners hear a bigger difference than blade owners is because the previous ls50 didn’t address the tweeter backwave, correct me if I’m wrong but the blades used a different uniq that used a vented magnet, but my memory is thin here. Each line kef produces at a different price point thus different drivers.

@panzrwagn  I agree 100% on the small room setup, like my office. Especially with the matching KC62 sub. However, for me the improvements over the old LS50 were huge. The Meta is a much cleaner sounding speaker that just disappears. Now I have my best gear on them, so I do know that makes a difference.

No more of a gimmick than any other manufacturer using their versions of light, stiff and responsive speaker cone material...

I have the original LS-50s and have heard the Metas. There is a small but distinct improvement in the high end without doubt. More amazing to me is KEF keeping the same pricing. All that said, the LS-50 is one of the most frequently mis-used speakers on the market. It is a nearfield monitor, and in smaller treated rooms is capable of extraordinary performance. In medium and large rooms, my own living room as an example, they simply sounded lost. In my office, they sound extraordinary. Is Meta material market hype? No and yes No, it actually works- as claimed. Was that leveraged by KEF's Marketing Department? Yes. That's their job description - to drive demand for their product. And in their case, they can back it up, something not all audio companies, large or small, can claim..

There are lots of reviewers who had the original LS50s and then tried the LS50 Meta who found big or small differences so you could check them out.

I bought the LS50 Metas recently used and once I found a set up that really made them sing, I am happy with them. 

I have both original and newer meta ls50s. Like them or not, the metas are the real deal as advertised. No BS. Plenty of that elsewhere. I love that! Size is their only limitation. Other newer meta models solve that problem as well but for additional cost, of course. 

I don't feel the Meta's live up to the hype.  I immediately had to buy the KC62due to the lack of bass.  Just recently replaced them with Fyne Audio's F500-SP.  My wife immediately noticed the difference in musicality and soundstage.

The new series do seem to minimize brightness and metallic overtones, possibly at the expense of detail from what I have heard during demos.  
 

My guess is that the loss of detail would be due to frequency response shaping…less metallic sounding would imply lower distortion. 

seanheis1,

Typical conventional tweeters are sealed in the back, so Revel (and most other speaker companies) are doing nothing about the energy radiating from the back of the tweeter diaphram. 

It's a valid technology. Been talking with Celestron about doing such for the ax2050 driver.

It is possible for manufactutrers to reduce distortion and breakup through the use of different cone materials.  In the case of KEF Meta they put a maze shaped pad behind the tweeter to reduce back wave reflection.  Car audio guys do the same thing on door mounted woofers to reduce the magnitude of the back wave. 

Probably does some good but likely subtle. 

The biggest change for the Meta series is the smoother, tapered frequency response.  Voicing changes through crossover tweaks.  Made a big difference.

The new series do seem to minimize brightness and metallic overtones, possibly at the expense of detail from what I have heard during demos.  

Is there embelishment in the Meta marketing? You bet there is.  

@seanheis1 I think we’re on the same page. The “clinical” sound of the LS50 is very desirable actually. I can’t fault it. This is what people expect from KEF. The modern industrial design gives it away. The LS50 delivers the goods. 
 

if that’s not your cup of tea then the OGY cost just a hair more. They’re not necessarily “gooder” but noticeably different. 

@seanheis1 I get fatigue very easily. The current office system is totally fatigue free. I do not really listen to many bad recordings though I listen for a about 12+ hours a day. I work a lot these days in the office.

I do have a warmer CODA#16 amp sitting idle in my office. I flip it back and forth with the AHB2's. Though I seem to prefer the AHB2 in this system more. The AHB2 has great speaker cable while the CODA uses lower end. I cannot use the good cable on the CODA, so that has to play some role in my preferences.

I would ask, how is meta absorption better than using insulation type material behind tweeter? 
 

What do the Revel Salons and other engineering first reference speakers do to deal with tweeter backwave?

Comparing LS50 Meta to non-Meta, the frequency response is a little different so it looks like a crossover update is going to account for at least some if not all of the differences. 

The LS50 Meta and the KC62 sub in a small room is reference level sound. At least with the gear I have hooked up to them. Benchmark LA4 preamp + AHB2 amp | Lumin X1 DAC.

@yyzsantabarbara that sounds super resolving…but is it clinical sounding like a studio monitor? My worry would be fatigue, especially on recordings that aren’t very good. 

Just wanted to return to Hania Rana's puzzling noises that I kept hearing in some of her tracks. Turns out it's just some looped effects at various levels and not the incidental noises picked up on a mic. 

There is still a fair amount of typical "studio sounds" that are heard.

All the best,
Nonoise

Of course, dipole loudspeakers avoid the issue of the back wave of a tweeter (and woofer) by not having an enclosure at all. But then you have to deal with the back wave’s interaction with the wall behind the loudspeaker (not to mention the challenge of the lack of an enclosure, with all the benefits they afford). Pick yer poison!

The LS50 Meta and the KC62 sub in a small room is reference level sound. At least with the gear I have hooked up to them. Benchmark LA4 preamp + AHB2 amp | Lumin X1 DAC.

I am getting the Blade 2 Meta for a big room and that should be incredible.

 I haven’t heard the Reference 5 Meta’s yet, but There’s more going on in the new KEF Meta’s than them adding the rat maze. The spec’s are different. They are slightly less efficient and the crossover points are different. My Reference 5’s are 90dbs and the crossover for the tweeters are at 2500 hz.  The Meta’s are 88db and the tweeters crossover at 2100 hz.

I just finished listening to Hania Rana's ESJA CD. What I thought was a poor recording with constant soft, scratching, nick like sounds turned out to be the angle she was playing the keys with on the first two tracks (a guess on my part) They varied in speed and were not always distinctly heard. It could even have been something she wore that kept making contact with something.

The more I listened, the easier it was to hear every movement she made, foot peddle pressure, leg moving in sync, music sheets being turned, even the seat ever so slightly creaking as she moved around on it (she plays on three different keyboard instruments while centrally situated). 

All of this is (I'm assuming) made possible by the clarity of the tweeter with that ARID device lurking just behind the tweeter's dome. If you shine a bright light near it, you can just make out the nautilus shaped vanes of the device. Amazing sound.

All the best,
Nonoise

I use a pair of LS50 Metas in one of my less serious systems and believe they are pretty amazing considering their small size. Not sure if the material is a gimmick, but they sure do perform and impress all who hear them. 

A lot of new technology in speakers since 2000 and a Renaissance of an old technology from the 70’s making a huge comeback.

I like the newer Diamond tweeters, even some of the beryllium tweeters. 
AMT tweeters are making a huge comeback after the Heil patent elapsed. I owned speakers with these tweeters/midrange units back in the late 70’s and they sounded very good.

Interesting speaker, never heard of Revival until now.  Price is very economical would like to hear them, possibly for a second system. 

My Revival Audio Atalante 3 speakers use a form of sound deadening behind the dome of its tweeter that does what KEF uses, albeit in a different manner. They call it ARID and It absorbs about 95% of the rearward sound from the tweeter, practically eliminating any standing waves behind it. Straight out of the box, it's some of the cleanest, clearest sound I've heard.

Does everyone think everything's been invented that can be invented?

All the best,
Nonoise

It's an incremental improvement to an already excellent design. Over-marketed probably, but it has its merits.

@Jasonbourne52. Better than Linn Kans - now that's damning with faint praise...

Meta sounds like Aerogel.

Aerogel is often cited as the world’s lightest solid, but that’s not entirely accurate. It’s a low-density network of interconnected pores, with each pore filled with air. Despite its fragile appearance, aerogel is incredibly strong. It can support up to 4,000 times its weight and has a compressive strength of 10,000 psi. Aerogel has been used as an impact-absorbing material in bulletproof vests to spacecraft.

So how does this solid and lightweight material made? The process begins with a silicon-based compound combined with a solvent to form a gel. The gel is then supercritically dried, removing the solvent at a pressure and temperature above its critical point. This leaves behind a network of air-filled pores, resulting in up to 99% air material.

I see no problem. Just an appeal for a counterparty for a bet.

Not me.

I think there are tens of thousands of terms used by speaker makers to assure the buyer that they are buying the most modern technology possible. The term I saw Focal use was "perception of modernity" I believe.

Is any speaker in 2023 much better than any speaker in 2000? Meh.

As the Kef videos show however, they are tackling a real problem in a new way, which is the backwave from a tweeter. B&W did it with a tube, others with absorbent stuffing and unique sound chambers (ScanSpeak AirCirc for instance).

So, yeah, but what’s the problem? Speaker makers always hype something. Why pick on KEF in particular here?  If you really wanted to complain about KEF it's their impedance curves.  🤣

@yyzsantabarbara I have transmission line speakers. I want that back wave. It amplifies the bass. 

I listened to the LS50 Meta Wireless in a shop and they were really good! They definitely have a more "Hi-Fi" sound than my Closer Acoustics OGY. But I think the OGY just sound more natural and less try-hard. I would be happy with either. 

The LS50 Meta is much better than the older LS50 non-Meta. A serious improvement in my system. So much so that I cancelled plans to buy another monitor that cost 6X more. The LS50 Meta and a KEF KC62 sub are my all-done speakers for my small office.

The better the upstream equipment the better the sound.

Why not glue the cork and post your impressions. Maybe you have discovered a new way to design speakers.

The LS50 Meta's are certainly better balanced sound-wise than the Linn Kans and the Proac Tablettes, both of which have their fans!

You are correct! KEF needed something they could claim was "special" to distinguish their small box from all the other small boxes - some of which were cheaper and sounded excellent!