Is there a ceiling limit on what you are willing to pay for an audio component?

@bigkidz 

Again, money has nothing to do with sound quality.

Nothing like a blatantly false statement.  Wisely spending money has everything to do with sound.

I wish I had Jay's budget also but sadly I do not. I had bought and cobbled systems together for years, some new and some used. I decided it was time to move out of the 90s and 00s and put together a complete new system. I gave myself a $20K budget But stayed below $15 when I was done. I am pretty happy and have a musical and pleasing setup of-

Luxman 505UXII

Rotel 1572 CDP

Rega P3

Fyne Audio F502SPs

This hobby is right up there with car collecting for people with stupid money. When you can pay over 200 k only for a piece of wire imo that is nuts. I can say for me it is what is my return on investment judged by my ears and not trying to impress anyone but myself. Can I see myself touching the 10 k speaker list? Maybe but it would have to improve my sound by 50% over current speakers and then I still think I would pass. Yes even with stupid money I think J could find better options to spend it.

@vonhelmholtz - wisely spending. Well maybe if you know what makes sound and how to put it together.  But  since we manufacture components and repair and upgrade components, most people do not have a clue as to what impacts sound.  Most people and companies don't even know how to set up speakers correctly.

As it stands it's costing me about 20k to build 4 horns. Will sell a pair to pay for a pair to keep. This way I get SOTA gear for hardly any cost. If you're on a budget get resourceful. Just heading out to an audio shop with a credit card and spending a few 1000s will not get you far. 

I probably have a different outlook when it comes to my audio budget. First off I save up my pennies and pay cash for EVERYTHIG I buy. I have literally saved $100 of thousands over the years. It might take a little longer to achieve my goals but that only gives me time to study the products on the table. Then I must say there are people who would trade their souls for their music. I don't thing violating your morals (literally) is a good thing no matter what they may be. 
BUT, I AM WILLING to forego a few 'T-bones' to get just a little better equipment and that never hurt anyone. And last but not least is if your musical desires take away form your family obligations in ANY WAY, you have overstepped any good policy.

Wrong question.

I know I wouldn't spend £300,000 on a pair of speakers, however much I like their sound.  I probably wouldn't spend £100,000.  But I found their sound to be far, far better than the £25,000 speakers I have now I might do.  If they were better than that I might spend £120,000.

So there is no fixed ceiling for what I am prepared to spend.  Most people evaluate things in this manner, rather than fixing a ceiling.

This question depends on economic status not what one desires so it is a ridiculous question 

If you had even 10% of Elon's money, you (well, I) WOULD spend a fortune on audio gear if you love it. Why wouldn't you? Even if you were "only" worth $100 million, you could spend 2% of your net worth (even 1%) on a room and a system that would be nirvana...bliss. You say you wouldn't, but that would make you an aberration if you won the $100-500 million lotto. One's perspective changes with that kind of money, I believe.

Of course, maybe you'd choose to buy a yacht or private jet, and that will make a world-class hi-fi seem absolutely cheap in comparison! You don't need to hire a pilot or skipper to run your stereo for you. It won't cost you $10% of the cost of your stereo system just to crew, maintain, insure, and staff a stereo like it will a yacht. If your yacht is worth a mere $50 million, it will cost you $2-5 million a year just to maintain it before you ever leave the dock!

I always keep a short list of "lotto dream" hi-fi systems in my head. At my age, I don't dream of gorgeous nubile women anymore. One of those would just give me a heart attack or stroke, or my wife would kill me. 😂

It’s really more about would I want to buy... say ...$40k speakers, even if they sounded like heaven. I would not. Again no judgement on those who do... enjoy the sound!

 

@bigkidz

Given your level of expertise, I will accept what you’re saying, but isn’t the enjoyment of listening to music outside of the live venue the real goal, and not some absolute sound? Aren’t people capable of listening to different equipment and judging for themselves. I’m not saying that this will lead to the ultimate sound, or even something that would satisfy most people, but it only needs to satisfy the owner/listener.

Men have Hobbies....Boats , Cars , Guns , golf equipment , Etc...Etc.....Mine is 2 channel hi-fi......I think a $10K amp and $10 K speakers w/ $2500 in interconnects and cables...a $3500 DAC and a $2500 turntable w/ MC cart is going to get you 90% THERE.

I usually just lurk but I found this topic is interesting to me I felt like commenting. I’m 70 years old. Since the pandemic I’ve gotten back into the hobby. I’ve purchased vintage McIntosh with two systems. I spent no more than $1800 per component. I like vintage US or Japanese built components although my rtr dac (Ladder Schumann) is Chinese made. I also have 2 US made Geshelli J2 AKM model dacs. I have ADS L710 and L780 speakers from 70s and 80s. However I recent ordered the Sourcepoint 8 speakers designed by Andrew Jones. I heard them at Axpona and they were shockingly good there. The speakers broke through the $2000 barrier. 

I only buy something if I have the cash.  I may put it on a credit card but only for the cash back or extended warranty.   If I don’t have the cash in hand, I do not buy it.   

@p05129  +1

'nuff said

Regards,

barts

 

@2psyop - Not at all. Not only are there some great brands in that price range like Monitor Audio, or stretching it, Revel, I think that a lot of these super speakers are made for homes the likes of which I’ll never see. What point is there in buying a Wilson Alexandria for my tiny listening room?? 🤣

In my space, for my listening, I am sure I can get every bit as "good" a sound for far less.

I don't know if any of you would like my stereo, but damn if it doesn't sound better than any hotel room I've been to.

@deadhead1000 , totally agree with your sentiment here. The system needs to make sense all around for price and synergy.  But the way my fav years are 1973 and 1974. Can't wait for the latest box set to come out 

What is anyone willing to pay for any of these:

Audio equipment, TV, cars, bicycles, houses, boats, cameras, kitchen appliances, donations, hookers, whatever???

we all have different things we value & are willing to pay for. To each their own. Work hard, save your $ & enjoy what you like with it. 

@jonwolfpell hookers? seriously? That's pretty dark. 

There are thousands of my fellow audiophile brothers and sisters who read messages on the audiogon forum. Many have commented here and I accept all the comments and opinions.. even the negative ones. In fact, I appreciate these opinions because I learn from them. These ideas and experience(s) broaden my knowledge. I never expect everyone to think like me. Also, I don’t really have a hidden agenda with this question. I really do respect anyone who spends.. any amount of cash.. they see fit for their audio system. I have two audio systems and I think I have not paid more than $10K for each one. Again, to each his own pleasure and I don’t pass judgement on anyone paying more for their enjoyment or paying less.

I think we place priorities on what we like or what we love. I have placed a certain limited affection for music reproduction. What I get out of the experience from listening to my own system is not nirvana, nowhere near that. I have done other things in my life that get me closer to that. Recently I went to a jazz club and a jazz orchestra (about 13 players) was playing various classic songs. That experience allowed me to enjoy music much more than my own audio system could allow.

The guy who posts about his audio systems is Jay. Many here have already figured this out.

 

I seldom obsess over the amount of money I've spent on hi-fi. I've never totally emptied my wallet, in any case. I like what I've got, and I refuse to wag my finger at the big spenders.  The only reason I'd go back into the market is if something breaks. I don't feel guilty over the amount of time I spend sitting in front of the thing, either. 

It is all relative to means.  If I had Elon Musk bank account, I would at least audition stratospherically priced stuff to see if it is worth it, and I suspect I will find some worth keeping.  Because I don’t have his account, my main system runs about $35K, with a few grand more in other systems in the home.  I could spend more but for me it is the price performance sweet spot.

despite all the best intentions, the insecure, genital enlargement seeking folks still misunderstood it though

I cannot see myself ever paying more than $500/ £500 on an amp or CD player. I have done in the past but I'm no longer convinced it was money well spent.

On the other hand I used to think that $5k would be my limit for speakers but I'm no longer sure about that either.

All of those I've seen under £5k seem to have one form of serious compromise or another.

I'm now beginning to think that $10k would be my limit for a pair of minimum compromise loudspeakers.

From very early on in my audio journey I grew to dislike small, minuscule upgrades. All of that time and trouble were just not worth it.

Besides, I never got much long term satisfaction from those kinds of upgrades. It was often a case of some plusses but also some minuses which kind of ruined it a little.

A true upgrade should simply be sonically better in every way.

@2psyop 

You seem like a humble, curious person, that’s a valuable combination. There is a lot to learn from others, both the good and the bad, and I applaud your effort.
 

Best of luck with your audio goals!

@esarhaddon1 

Very well said… sage advice. 
 

Best!

Right NOW I'm listening to the best sounding Maggies in their entire line.....The LRS+ for a grand....with PeaCHTREE 400 wATT gAN 400 AND aUDIO-gd 10 TUBED PRE AMP he1- xlr....aUDIO mIRROR dac AND cec TRANSPORT ....Less than 20K and better than what I heard at the Florida show in 90% of the rooms.   Capitals are to attract attention.  And this system is Better than all these Big Buck systems because it makes Beautiful Live Music. You don't have to spend a fortune !

$10k per component.  Prove me wrong. 

Not for a single second that I'd buy your bs. The last part about Elon Musk's money. If you had Elon Musk money, you'd buy the bestest and most expensive piece of gear without a second thought.

 

So yes, you are "crazy for saying that". And the youtuber you're talking about is Jay's audio lab. That dude is more confusing than you. And the word I'd never use to describe him is "informative". 

That dude is a strange fella, he supposedly has hundred of thousands of dollars in audio gear, but he's trying to make pennies through youtube audio niche. 

Arbitrary price caps, along with its polar opposite ad hoc arbitrary high strata spending can both be a recipe for disappointment.

Ignore drinking all the arbitrary $$ factor KoolAid with all its resultant hyperbole at both ends of futile $$ spectrum debates.

The philosophy is clear: an “affordable” speaker with comparatively “higher” price quality amplification and source makes more sense than an “expensive” speaker with a comparatively “cheap” amp and source.

@CoralKong. For 36 years I was a fervent music and hardware addict, a blithering junkie towards the end, but I finally got tired of chasing the Dragon splitting hairs over minutia.  There's definitely a reason to spend more. If you're ever in Raleigh NC you can experience something that few people will ever experience sonically short of jacking into the Matrix. I never watch TV.  I have everything delivered. I spend every waking moment unable to pull myself away. Only meeting my creator with the sound of a trillion angels singing could pull me away!!  Hyperbole, you say? Good, Now I can go back to my Dragon's lair! I don't have to chase them anymore, you do!  😎

I can say that currently I would possibly consider going $20k+ for either a pair of kef blade 2s or smaller mbl standmounts. That would do it for me. Until the next great new thing comes along at least.

Just maybe some day……

 

Or I could decide the money is better spent donating to a worthy charity.

A conscience is an interesting thing to have.

To answer the question posed by the op - no. However, I like to see a correlation between the price of a component and the inputs to its design and manufacture. Consequently,  I spend less on cables, relatively, than on the rest of my system.

@mapman.....those are 2 of the best ( 20K speakers out there).....I was looking at those also But then I heard the 11K Borresen X3’s... I decided I had to have a pair of them..They have the Borresen sound with the fit and finish of a much more expensive speaker.   The Danish know sound...Waiting on delivery.

I’m with Edcyn

@mbmi I’m sure those sound very good but I am not a fan of tower speakers with multiple distributed driver designs of any sort in most rooms like mine at home. Maybe in a larger room with more distance to speakers from listening position. 

I think the limit is the same in the Western world:

Your credit card spending limit.....

@curiousjim Wins the day. Lol

@2psyop

I always have a limit. It is what I feel is reasonable on that day.

come on come one   ,    i need objective review

@fac Huh? What are you trying to say?

What your wallet can afford.  Or 10% of your salary will be the disposable income.

In hindsight and with my last few purchases, yes.

In the late 1980s I came across some audiophiles at work that were into modifying vintage gear for good sound.  I cashed out my Yamaha gear and got an ARC SP-6b preamp which I then had upgraded with new wiring, resistors, volume pot and gold RCA plugs.  That lead to mods for my turntable, amp and speakers.  I built a dedicated listening room with dedicated power and enjoyed my music.  Sound per dollar was the goal in our little audio group.

Then one day in the late 1990s my designer at work invited me over to his place to hear his system.  He had worked for years in a hifi shop.  Hearing his system was a revelation for me.  After several hours he had to almost pick me up and push me out the door.  His system, I remember it like yesterday was Wilson Watt/Puppy 6, Mark Levinson Amps, preamp and CD Player with MIT cabling throughout and a Carbon Fiber audio shelf.  That’s the day sound per dollar went out the window for me.  After years of longing I have achieved sonic bliss- for now…

Perfection is an asymptotic function.  Hifi is a good example of that.  It seems like cost doubles to get a noticeable improvement in sound- with a few exceptions .  It’s  always a choice between living without better sound or without money. 

@tonywinga 

 

Great story. 
 

I think most of us that have been spurred on to chase the very best possible have a story of two of when we heard something that was just so far above what we thought possible that it has inspired us and left a lasting impression. Me to. 

I Want to pay 15,000 bucks max...

Even if i had a billion in my bank account..

Why ?

Because i know what i am doing and why i do it...

I know exactly which components will give me the best optimal S.Q. /low price ratio in the world right now for the least of money...

If you dont know where you must go and why, you then throw money at high price tag because with ignorance of basic acoustic concept and no experience and experiments with it, you dont know what to do first, save throwing money at costly components which had enough good reviews and are the costlier one...

I did not and will not do that... All my components will be chosen for specific acoustic reason first...not for esthetic or brand name but for their probable acoustic delivery in relation with the headphone or the speakers/room chosen...

But i am now with headphone ... I will pick the two other components for optimizing the specific headphone i own... I will not replace my 100 bucks headphone for any other at any price...Or perhaps i will upgrade with the orpheus Sennheise at 55,000 bucks to make people envious...But it is way over my 15,000 bucks dreamed and top of the world system... i am not even sure that the Orpheus will be better on ALL acoustic factors... At this price i will not upgrade to experience  an improvement on most acoustic factor except one or two... 😊

@mahgister

 

Ok. You are completely calibrated for your income level. You completely understand the sound quality / price levels and understand the optimal point. Now, say, your income level and savings quadruples.

So, do you seriously mean to say you don’t change your buying behavior? No. BS. Absolutely not. You can pontificate as much as you want, give as much to charity as you want… but you are going to realize that the X sounds better and will only cost you .1% more of your income.

Sorry. But your income is one of the two key determinates of the sq/value equation. If you really love sound quality and your income goi]es up, so does your carefully calculated equation of sq/price. This is the way humans work.

I Want to pay 15,000 bucks max...

Even if i had a billion in my bank account..

I would only pay a hundred bucks for a designer handbag. Even if I had a billion dollars in my bank account. Why? Because handbags are not my thing. Maybe audio is not YOUR thing? Honest question.

@ghdprentice :

You are completely calibrated for your income level.

Yup. Spot on. Whoever claims otherwise is BSing others, or even worse, themselves 

 

 

 

Some years back I recall Jewelry Stores pushing the line that you should spend three months salary on a wedding ring for your wife.  Well, I suggest that a stereo system should cost one year’s salary- if you really want to call yourself an audiophile…

(Of course I would never spend that much.  That’s nuts.)

That is certainly not a good idea.  Most of us have to get a mortgage for a home that is 2.5 times our salaries.  And then spend decades paying that.

It is mostly a hobby for well off old men and devoted struggling young men.  Always has been.  Prices for high end gear from the 1950s to now has always been in the unaffordable range for most.

As for me I’m hopeless.  I got the bug in college and found ways to satisfy my lust for audio as best I could.  I lived in Europe for 2.5 years with a Sony receiver and some B&W speakers that I bought in a shop in Stuttgart.  The Hifi was packed away back home.  I was in shear bliss when I got back to the US and got my hifi up and running again.  Absence did make the heart grow fonder.  

You miss my point

First : there exist better audio system than mine...

Second : i know exactly how to upgrade and why ... I know even the cost...

Because i understand my experience listenings experiments what is A SOUNDFIELD :

(a) imaging differentiation

(b) a VARIABLE not a fixed soundstaging dimensions according to each recording

(c) an holographic volume (3-d) associated with each sound source with a balance ration with the factor of listwener envelopment ASW/LV

Observe that in my experience the soundfield had three aspects not two as in ALL audio reviews... Observe that if i could know that, it is because i can MODIFY at will the relation between "sound sources" and the" listener envelopment" ( which are precise acoustic concept )  IN MY DEDICATED ROOM...

Now with headphone i know which  headphone could give me this soundfield and how i will learn  to improve it with the headphone i picked and i did it after 6 months  for my COMPLETE SATISFACTION...Not only a subjective satisfaction but a satisfaction based on acoustic precise factors... : timbre, dynamic, transients, immersiveness, Bass and highs frequencies range  and ESPECIALLY the three soundfield dimensions above...

Three: Then i dont need to upgrade over this ceiling of  15,000 bucks because the two component i picked for the upgrade would be the best dac in the world created by a physicist Dr. Choueri, who revolutionized  "virtual room acoustic"... it is not a dac  who do as most dac do  on the market at all... But i cannot use two pages to explain to you what is the BACCH filters look on the internet to see what i talk about ...

The amplifier i will pick to upgrade my Sansui alpha which was already  top in the wolrd amplifier in 1990  with  a high S. Q. /low price ratio , is also a  NEW design created by a physicist, David Berning, who revolutionize tube amplification TOTALLY... His tube amplifier had nothing to do WITH ANY OTHER tube amplification in any brand ... It is a patented technology : ZOTL tech.  Read about him to understand...

My headphone are already top of the world in 1978 created by a physicist too, Dr, Gorike..­ The only successful hybrid headphone  technology on the market since 45 years... With an acoustic control of the shell with  a passive tuned grid of Helmholtz  resonators ( a unique soundfield )   and now with modifications and optimization , after 6 months of listening experiments with them, i made 6 major modifications, they  are today also top of the world at least in S.Q. /price ratio...Good luck to buy better at any price....

Then with these 3 components i will be in heaven....At 15,000 bucks... I am already in Heaven at 600 bucks and dont even need to upgrade with 15,000 bucks... But if i had the money i will do it because this will not be a marginal upgrade ... Especially because of the Dr. Choueri Dac..

It is always possible to buy an Orpheus Sennheiser system for example  , and who knows ! it may be an  upgrade a bit over my three components at 55,000 of cost...This i dont know but i doubt it a lot... because the Orpheus without Dr. Choueri 10, 000 bucks dac will not compete with my upgraded system...

But i am not a fool, i dont need any upgrade now;  i am already in heaven with a 600 bucks system and i smile because ignorant put speakers of 100,000 bucks in a living room instead of putting 25, 000 bucks one in a dedicated acoustic room... Most people had not the time ( i am retired) to learn basic acoustic for 2 years with listening experiments each day without  rest... I did it...

Sorry but i believe my ears and acoustic experiments... Nothing else...

Price tag are for passive consumers not for acoustician, even nor  for experienced amateur like me... i could be fooled 13 years ago and i was... No more after many years of acoustic experience...

I hope i was clear...

In a word my hobby was acoustic of small room and listening music... My hobby never was collecting gear upgrades... And it will never be even as billionaire..

The best audio system in the world yes is my goal  for the ratio S.Q./low price ratio ( 15,000 bucks is enough with my knowledge)

Fools, look for the best in the world at any price without even knowing what is a soundfield and how to create or modify it... I am no more one... I learned and studied a bit... 😊

 

 

Ok. You are completely calibrated for your income level. You completely understand the sound quality / price levels and understand the optimal point. Now, say, your income level and savings quadruples.

So, do you seriously mean to say you don’t change your buying behavior? No. BS. Absolutely not. You can pontificate as much as you want, give as much to charity as you want… but you are going to realize that the X sounds better and will only cost you .1% more of your income.

Sorry. But your income is one of the two key determinates of the sq/value equation. If you really love sound quality and your income goi]es up, so does your carefully calculated equation of sq/price. This is the way humans work.