Is there a ceiling limit on what you are willing to pay for an audio component?
A very informative fellow on youtube reviews high end audio gear. He pays an insane amount of money on ampifiers, speakers and digital sources. He tells you what he thinks about quality, price, customer service and performance on such brands as Magico, Boulder, Wilson Audio and many others.
So here is the question. What are YOU willing to pay for a pair of speakers? An amplifier? A DAC or turntable setup? I am interested in what you WOULD PAY, not what you have paid in the past.
For me, I cannot see myself paying over $5K on speakers and likely not more that $3K on any other component.... even if I had the kind of money Elon Musk has. Am I crazy in saying that?
I asked a similar question on a thread I started in the speaker section, except it was if there was a price where a manufacturer could over price his audio wares. Certainly by the supposed success of the release of the new Linn LP12 50th Anniversary issue, which at $60k is apparently selling well!
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I discovered that sound quality nowadays, in a mature audio industry, that sound quality minimal satisfying threshold had no direct relation to money cost at all.. We must LEARN how to pair the right components thats all... my system is so good that my wife want divorce because i repeat each day that my music is so good that i dont believe it... Upgrade is ALWAYS possible even passed the minimal satisfaction threshold where i am... the cost of upgrading my 700 bucks system will be around 15,000 bucks... I am so well informed trust me i know that it will be a REAL upgrade... but i am so pleased with what i have that i think about the upgrade as foolishness even if it will be really better this i am totally certain ... What i have now is two piece of gear considered top high end of their era in 1978... one piece is not even upgradable , the headphone... it rival a Stax Omega headphone... 😊 Even with a billion dollars i will need nothing more than near 15,000 bucks... It is because i know exactly what i need and why... 😊
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If I really want something and I do t have the money for it u will save for it until I have enough to buy it. But yea there is always a limit. I mean I’m not gonna spend 100k on an amp or a pair of speakers that I don’t have the money for. But if I did have the money for what I wanted there is no limit to what I would buy. So to answer the question. It’s yes and no 😂 |
In fact, there is no universal price for a set of stereos. It depends on the needs of use and the budget that you are willing to spend how much you can invest. Therefore, the price of the products may vary, so it is impossible to say whether the equipment is expensive or cheap. If you want to check the prices of the staging sets, please visit here to find out: http://khangphudataudio.com/dan-am-thanh-hoi-truong |
Interesting indeed...
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But my wife control the supply money all my life because i dont have time or interest for money management and my only expanses were for books and music...
That's my situation too. As long as I can afford to buy what I want I have very little interest in money. From what I've seen in others, the chasing of wealth often seems to be a rather pernicious addiction that ultimately defeats it's original purpose. In any case my wife will never stop me from buying something if I want it bad enough but she will ask to think about family priorities first. And I do. However, as time goes by and I see how fragile one's grip on life can be, I also recognise the folly of putting off one's wishes indefinitely.
I had been a fool all my life in audio matter ... But i learned that to be more than a passive consumers is the road to freedom and knowledge by acoustic basic EXPERIMENTS and experimenting with creative simple devices ( i never bought tweaks) ... This experiments i created for me dont make me the one and only wise dude here...
My experiences too. We're not the only only ones of course. Folks like YouTube reviewer Andrew Robinson have openly admitted that after owning loudspeakers that cost well in excess of $20k (Revel, B&W etc) he has managed to find the same level of quality at much lower prices, and with far less disturbance to his mental health. It's no surprise therefore that he considers himself a recovering audiophile. |
I am not "poor" even in retirement... But my wife control the supply money all my life because i dont have time or interest for money management and my only expanses were for books and music... When the day come to buy a 15,000 bucks dreamed system, she does not say no, but she does not say yes too... i decided to go with an under 1000 bucks system vintage... I learned basic acoustic to fulffil my dreams , thanks to her management money skills, without her i would had as most people learn nothing and buy everything... Now with my headphone system i even beat my speakers/acoustic room... Just in the bass department i go under 30 hertz... I am more than happy with my 600 bucks system... For sure i dream about the ultimate upgrade at 15,000 bucks who will give me not a system beating most audiophile average system but would be for the ratio S.Q./low price ( 15,000 bucks) one of the best in the world...because i know what i am doing now .... Thanks to my thrifty wife...
My very best to you...
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We think the same...Thanks for the post... Audio for me is acoustic problems...It is an occasion to think in a new world of dancing waves and an occasion to see how my brain compute space and how my unconscious brain live in a time zone of his own...
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I should have (and do have) other priorities, goals and hobbies that cost money. So it's easy to say, if I had $x, I would spend x/10 on audio. The flipside is diminishing returns. If I bought new speakers, significantly better ones than current ones, I would need a new room, which is not possible i my current house, so I would need a new house and then I would realize it's a whole lot of money that I could find much better uses for. I guess that defines me as a non-audiophile. |
I have never felt like a fool with audio. I have values… things that I value and things I do not. Until I was 50 I never bought a new car… had cheap used ones, would not pay a lot for tp, I would never buy drinks at a bar, but I had a new PC every two years and would put a very significant amount of my income into high end audio. Because a very small improvement in my audio system would bring me great pleasure. Like the really good bottle of Bordeaux that I would save up for and have once every month or two. High end audio is not a fools game for people that understand themselves and their values, recognizing the pursuit is extremely complex, but can be amazingly rewarding. I love extremely ambiguous and complex problems…so Audiophilia is perfect. |
The fact that i learned how to not be a fool anymore by being an active player and no more a passive consumer dont implicate that i am alone in this state here... Then saying that my description EXCLUDE all other people and claiming that what i say implicate that all others are fool save me, is an erroneous judgement about my post and character ... I had been a fool all my life in audio matter ... But i learned that to be more than a passive consumers is the road to freedom and knowledge by acoustic basic EXPERIMENTS and experimenting with creative simple devices ( i never bought tweaks) ... This experiments i created for me dont make me the one and only wise dude here... 😊 Then dont put in my mouth , what you feel in you and only in you...Dont confuse your feeling with my intention... Trying to communicate with others what i know for sure as i did dont implicate that i am the only wise guy here... There is many others more wise than me and with more experience in audio here , do you want name ? 😊
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You miss my point First : there exist better audio system than mine... Second : i know exactly how to upgrade and why ... I know even the cost... Because i understand my experience listenings experiments what is A SOUNDFIELD : (a) imaging differentiation (b) a VARIABLE not a fixed soundstaging dimensions according to each recording (c) an holographic volume (3-d) associated with each sound source with a balance ration with the factor of listwener envelopment ASW/LV Observe that in my experience the soundfield had three aspects not two as in ALL audio reviews... Observe that if i could know that, it is because i can MODIFY at will the relation between "sound sources" and the" listener envelopment" ( which are precise acoustic concept ) IN MY DEDICATED ROOM... Now with headphone i know which headphone could give me this soundfield and how i will learn to improve it with the headphone i picked and i did it after 6 months for my COMPLETE SATISFACTION...Not only a subjective satisfaction but a satisfaction based on acoustic precise factors... : timbre, dynamic, transients, immersiveness, Bass and highs frequencies range and ESPECIALLY the three soundfield dimensions above... Three: Then i dont need to upgrade over this ceiling of 15,000 bucks because the two component i picked for the upgrade would be the best dac in the world created by a physicist Dr. Choueri, who revolutionized "virtual room acoustic"... it is not a dac who do as most dac do on the market at all... But i cannot use two pages to explain to you what is the BACCH filters look on the internet to see what i talk about ... The amplifier i will pick to upgrade my Sansui alpha which was already top in the wolrd amplifier in 1990 with a high S. Q. /low price ratio , is also a NEW design created by a physicist, David Berning, who revolutionize tube amplification TOTALLY... His tube amplifier had nothing to do WITH ANY OTHER tube amplification in any brand ... It is a patented technology : ZOTL tech. Read about him to understand... My headphone are already top of the world in 1978 created by a physicist too, Dr, Gorike.. The only successful hybrid headphone technology on the market since 45 years... With an acoustic control of the shell with a passive tuned grid of Helmholtz resonators ( a unique soundfield ) and now with modifications and optimization , after 6 months of listening experiments with them, i made 6 major modifications, they are today also top of the world at least in S.Q. /price ratio...Good luck to buy better at any price.... Then with these 3 components i will be in heaven....At 15,000 bucks... I am already in Heaven at 600 bucks and dont even need to upgrade with 15,000 bucks... But if i had the money i will do it because this will not be a marginal upgrade ... Especially because of the Dr. Choueri Dac.. It is always possible to buy an Orpheus Sennheiser system for example , and who knows ! it may be an upgrade a bit over my three components at 55,000 of cost...This i dont know but i doubt it a lot... because the Orpheus without Dr. Choueri 10, 000 bucks dac will not compete with my upgraded system... But i am not a fool, i dont need any upgrade now; i am already in heaven with a 600 bucks system and i smile because ignorant put speakers of 100,000 bucks in a living room instead of putting 25, 000 bucks one in a dedicated acoustic room... Most people had not the time ( i am retired) to learn basic acoustic for 2 years with listening experiments each day without rest... I did it... Sorry but i believe my ears and acoustic experiments... Nothing else... Price tag are for passive consumers not for acoustician, even nor for experienced amateur like me... i could be fooled 13 years ago and i was... No more after many years of acoustic experience... I hope i was clear... In a word my hobby was acoustic of small room and listening music... My hobby never was collecting gear upgrades... And it will never be even as billionaire.. The best audio system in the world yes is my goal for the ratio S.Q./low price ratio ( 15,000 bucks is enough with my knowledge) Fools, look for the best in the world at any price without even knowing what is a soundfield and how to create or modify it... I am no more one... I learned and studied a bit... 😊
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Some years back I recall Jewelry Stores pushing the line that you should spend three months salary on a wedding ring for your wife. Well, I suggest that a stereo system should cost one year’s salary- if you really want to call yourself an audiophile… (Of course I would never spend that much. That’s nuts.) That is certainly not a good idea. Most of us have to get a mortgage for a home that is 2.5 times our salaries. And then spend decades paying that. It is mostly a hobby for well off old men and devoted struggling young men. Always has been. Prices for high end gear from the 1950s to now has always been in the unaffordable range for most. As for me I’m hopeless. I got the bug in college and found ways to satisfy my lust for audio as best I could. I lived in Europe for 2.5 years with a Sony receiver and some B&W speakers that I bought in a shop in Stuttgart. The Hifi was packed away back home. I was in shear bliss when I got back to the US and got my hifi up and running again. Absence did make the heart grow fonder. |
I would only pay a hundred bucks for a designer handbag. Even if I had a billion dollars in my bank account. Why? Because handbags are not my thing. Maybe audio is not YOUR thing? Honest question.
Yup. Spot on. Whoever claims otherwise is BSing others, or even worse, themselves
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Ok. You are completely calibrated for your income level. You completely understand the sound quality / price levels and understand the optimal point. Now, say, your income level and savings quadruples. So, do you seriously mean to say you don’t change your buying behavior? No. BS. Absolutely not. You can pontificate as much as you want, give as much to charity as you want… but you are going to realize that the X sounds better and will only cost you .1% more of your income. Sorry. But your income is one of the two key determinates of the sq/value equation. If you really love sound quality and your income goi]es up, so does your carefully calculated equation of sq/price. This is the way humans work. |
I Want to pay 15,000 bucks max... Even if i had a billion in my bank account.. Why ? Because i know what i am doing and why i do it... I know exactly which components will give me the best optimal S.Q. /low price ratio in the world right now for the least of money... If you dont know where you must go and why, you then throw money at high price tag because with ignorance of basic acoustic concept and no experience and experiments with it, you dont know what to do first, save throwing money at costly components which had enough good reviews and are the costlier one... I did not and will not do that... All my components will be chosen for specific acoustic reason first...not for esthetic or brand name but for their probable acoustic delivery in relation with the headphone or the speakers/room chosen... But i am now with headphone ... I will pick the two other components for optimizing the specific headphone i own... I will not replace my 100 bucks headphone for any other at any price...Or perhaps i will upgrade with the orpheus Sennheise at 55,000 bucks to make people envious...But it is way over my 15,000 bucks dreamed and top of the world system... i am not even sure that the Orpheus will be better on ALL acoustic factors... At this price i will not upgrade to experience an improvement on most acoustic factor except one or two... 😊 |
In the late 1980s I came across some audiophiles at work that were into modifying vintage gear for good sound. I cashed out my Yamaha gear and got an ARC SP-6b preamp which I then had upgraded with new wiring, resistors, volume pot and gold RCA plugs. That lead to mods for my turntable, amp and speakers. I built a dedicated listening room with dedicated power and enjoyed my music. Sound per dollar was the goal in our little audio group. Then one day in the late 1990s my designer at work invited me over to his place to hear his system. He had worked for years in a hifi shop. Hearing his system was a revelation for me. After several hours he had to almost pick me up and push me out the door. His system, I remember it like yesterday was Wilson Watt/Puppy 6, Mark Levinson Amps, preamp and CD Player with MIT cabling throughout and a Carbon Fiber audio shelf. That’s the day sound per dollar went out the window for me. After years of longing I have achieved sonic bliss- for now… |
@fac Huh? What are you trying to say? |
@curiousjim Wins the day. Lol |
@mbmi I’m sure those sound very good but I am not a fan of tower speakers with multiple distributed driver designs of any sort in most rooms like mine at home. Maybe in a larger room with more distance to speakers from listening position. |
@mapman.....those are 2 of the best ( 20K speakers out there).....I was looking at those also But then I heard the 11K Borresen X3’s... I decided I had to have a pair of them..They have the Borresen sound with the fit and finish of a much more expensive speaker. The Danish know sound...Waiting on delivery. |
I can say that currently I would possibly consider going $20k+ for either a pair of kef blade 2s or smaller mbl standmounts. That would do it for me. Until the next great new thing comes along at least. Just maybe some day……
Or I could decide the money is better spent donating to a worthy charity. A conscience is an interesting thing to have. |
@CoralKong. For 36 years I was a fervent music and hardware addict, a blithering junkie towards the end, but I finally got tired of chasing the Dragon splitting hairs over minutia. There's definitely a reason to spend more. If you're ever in Raleigh NC you can experience something that few people will ever experience sonically short of jacking into the Matrix. I never watch TV. I have everything delivered. I spend every waking moment unable to pull myself away. Only meeting my creator with the sound of a trillion angels singing could pull me away!! Hyperbole, you say? Good, Now I can go back to my Dragon's lair! I don't have to chase them anymore, you do! 😎 |
Arbitrary price caps, along with its polar opposite ad hoc arbitrary high strata spending can both be a recipe for disappointment. Ignore drinking all the arbitrary $$ factor KoolAid with all its resultant hyperbole at both ends of futile $$ spectrum debates. The philosophy is clear: an “affordable” speaker with comparatively “higher” price quality amplification and source makes more sense than an “expensive” speaker with a comparatively “cheap” amp and source. |
Not for a single second that I'd buy your bs. The last part about Elon Musk's money. If you had Elon Musk money, you'd buy the bestest and most expensive piece of gear without a second thought.
So yes, you are "crazy for saying that". And the youtuber you're talking about is Jay's audio lab. That dude is more confusing than you. And the word I'd never use to describe him is "informative". That dude is a strange fella, he supposedly has hundred of thousands of dollars in audio gear, but he's trying to make pennies through youtube audio niche. |
Right NOW I'm listening to the best sounding Maggies in their entire line.....The LRS+ for a grand....with PeaCHTREE 400 wATT gAN 400 AND aUDIO-gd 10 TUBED PRE AMP he1- xlr....aUDIO mIRROR dac AND cec TRANSPORT ....Less than 20K and better than what I heard at the Florida show in 90% of the rooms. Capitals are to attract attention. And this system is Better than all these Big Buck systems because it makes Beautiful Live Music. You don't have to spend a fortune ! |
I cannot see myself ever paying more than $500/ £500 on an amp or CD player. I have done in the past but I'm no longer convinced it was money well spent. On the other hand I used to think that $5k would be my limit for speakers but I'm no longer sure about that either. All of those I've seen under £5k seem to have one form of serious compromise or another. I'm now beginning to think that $10k would be my limit for a pair of minimum compromise loudspeakers. From very early on in my audio journey I grew to dislike small, minuscule upgrades. All of that time and trouble were just not worth it. Besides, I never got much long term satisfaction from those kinds of upgrades. It was often a case of some plusses but also some minuses which kind of ruined it a little. A true upgrade should simply be sonically better in every way. |
It is all relative to means. If I had Elon Musk bank account, I would at least audition stratospherically priced stuff to see if it is worth it, and I suspect I will find some worth keeping. Because I don’t have his account, my main system runs about $35K, with a few grand more in other systems in the home. I could spend more but for me it is the price performance sweet spot. |
I seldom obsess over the amount of money I've spent on hi-fi. I've never totally emptied my wallet, in any case. I like what I've got, and I refuse to wag my finger at the big spenders. The only reason I'd go back into the market is if something breaks. I don't feel guilty over the amount of time I spend sitting in front of the thing, either. |
There are thousands of my fellow audiophile brothers and sisters who read messages on the audiogon forum. Many have commented here and I accept all the comments and opinions.. even the negative ones. In fact, I appreciate these opinions because I learn from them. These ideas and experience(s) broaden my knowledge. I never expect everyone to think like me. Also, I don’t really have a hidden agenda with this question. I really do respect anyone who spends.. any amount of cash.. they see fit for their audio system. I have two audio systems and I think I have not paid more than $10K for each one. Again, to each his own pleasure and I don’t pass judgement on anyone paying more for their enjoyment or paying less. I think we place priorities on what we like or what we love. I have placed a certain limited affection for music reproduction. What I get out of the experience from listening to my own system is not nirvana, nowhere near that. I have done other things in my life that get me closer to that. Recently I went to a jazz club and a jazz orchestra (about 13 players) was playing various classic songs. That experience allowed me to enjoy music much more than my own audio system could allow. The guy who posts about his audio systems is Jay. Many here have already figured this out.
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