How to choose speakers that won't overpower your room?

Think about how far you have to place the Sonus Fabers from the rear wall.  An absolute minimum of 3 feet, but preferable 5 or 6 feet.  Then, how far are you going to sit from the loudspeakers?  As a factor of how far apart you place the loudspeakers the listener distance should be 100 to 150%.  With these factors in mind, I'm thinking you're going to sit too close to the loudspeakers for them to perform properly.

A phase coherent or driver coincident loudspeaker, like your current KEFs, would be a better idea.  Or a loudspeaker designed to work directly placed near the rear wall or corner.

These are not hard and fast rules, but suggestions.  I imagine someone somewhere has a really big set of Wilsons placed in a smaller room and thinks it sounds fantastic.

As you say, what you hear at AXPONA is not like hearing the same speakers in your room, as the main influence on sound is the room itself. I'd think even a dealer would have a better sound setup than a hotel room. Try to see if you can get a home audition of something. I used to have SF Cremona Auditor stand mounts in a room about the size of your's, and they were great, though in dire need of a sub... 

I think a key is flexibility in pulling speakers out from the back wall.  A lot of floorstanders will likely sound boomy in your room if you can only pull them a foot off the wall, but if you can pull them 4-5 feet out it becomes increasing unlikely they will overpower your room.  Obviously things like bass traps can also greatly mitigate the effects of larger speakers in your room.  I don’t know that any specific measurements will be helpful as every room is different, but putting a large tower that goes down to 20Hz would obviously be a potential problem although I know Micheal Fremer has his large Wilsons crammed into a relatively small room so again it can be very situation/design specific.  And @onhwy61 brings up a very important point about being able to sit far away enough from the speakers so that the drivers have enough space to achieve coherency, but that is info you can probably get from the manufacturer if you become serious about a certain speaker.  Sorry, I know this is mostly common sense stuff and probably doesn’t help you much so FWIW.

Along with SF I’d highly recommend hearing Joseph Audio, ProAc, Vandersteen, Usher, Von Schweikert, and Gershman if they’re at AXPONA.  Rockport, Wilson, YG, Raidho, Estellon, MBL, Acora, and Vivid are always worth visiting.  I think Boenicke and Wilson Benesch are very intriguing speakers that fly under the radar I’ve never gotten to hear so would absolutely hit those if they’re there.  Nola, Spatial Audio, and Clayton Shaw’s Caladan speakers are some dipole designs that have always highly impressed me at shows as well.  Just some ideas, and enjoy the show!  Love to hear about any standouts (or disappointments) among the above or others if you care to share when you get back as I know you and I share common tastes in sound characteristics. 

Maybe control the bass output better with a stand mount +sub, or a bi-amplifier speaker (may need volume control).  Maybe add an equalizer?

Small room = small speakers

Big room = big speakers

A 12 x 11 room with big floor standers is a miss match. Plus you listen at "fairly low volume"  levels so there's no need for adding bigger/more. All speakers have a level of volume they require in order to sound good and those floor standers won't get to the proper level.

A good pair of stand mount Sonas Faber Sonetto II G2 on stands would be a far better choice IMHO. I would also add a small REL subwoofer for adjustability.. This would fill the room of that size.

Listening at low volume is unlikely to overpower your room, regardless of speakers.

big room - big speakers

small room - big speakers.

You should absolutely visit the Studio Electric room.   These are my new M4 , they are phenomenal for the money.  You want to check out their M5 and FSX speakers

My Dad has a pair of Sonus Electa Amator and they are a great speaker no doubt  , but at 1/3 the price the M4 are not embarrassed at all by them.   They give them a good run for the money.  Really well voiced.   I fell in love after a few songs, they checked all the boxes for me.  

Their M5 is a large 3 way stand mount and the FSX is a floor stander.   

Check them out, great sounding and quality for the money. 

@inna +1

Big speakers in a small room will load the room quicker then small speakers in a small room. Loading the room means sound pressure level. 

Mike

I think the question should be "What is a good EQ to use when I find myself with too much bass?"

The only limiting factor to how deep a speaker should go has to do with "room gain."  That is, your speaker will usually end with more bass than it would if listened to outside.  The question is what to do when it's too much.

The simplest possible answer is that many EQ's and/or DSP systems will solve the problem of excess bass pretty convincingly. 

I would think you will get the best results with front ported stand mounted speakers and a sub.  This will maximize your placement flexibility and give you some low end that floor standers won't provide when playing at polite volume levels.  Good luck and cheers.

I use Olympica Nova 3 in a room about 13 by 13. Back of the speakers are 19 inches from the wall and sides 21 inches from wall. My head is about 7 1/2 feet from speakers. I listen up to about 80db. The sound stage is wall to wall and higher than the speakers. I listen to mostly classic which I don’t know how much depth the soundstage has. I can clearly tell when something is behind another. I don’t feel like anything is overpowering the room or me.

Get a microsub such as the following and take some time to integrate it correctly. It  will help get everything up a notch.

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_991KC62T/KEF-KC62-Titanium-Grey.html

I am intrigued my the concept of this small sub and the way the two drivers appear to be set up.  Crutchfield is selling them for about $1500 . . . this is the first time I  have ever priced them, is this a price increase, or is that what they have been priced at for a while?

@erik_squires Wrote:

I think the question should be "What is a good EQ to use when I find myself with too much bass?"

Great question! I use a White equalizer model 4100 see here or my systems page.

The only limiting factor to how deep a speaker should go has to do with "room

I agree!

Mike

No, it was always priced around 1500, no exaggerated pricing there, in consideration of the performance that got packed into such a small form factor, i.e., force balanced, hits  down under 20 hz, etc...best lil thing to come out of kef yet @immatthewj 

I currently have the kef tied up to an interesting speaker.. the old school no sub club has been missing out.

I am intrigued my the concept of this small sub and the way the two drivers appear to be set up.  Crutchfield is selling them for about $1500 . . . this is the first time I  have ever priced them, is this a price increase, or is that what they have been priced at for a while?

Thanks for the info on that, @deep_333 .  I see some on ebay for under 1k.  I think that this looks like this sub might be a good replacement for my ancient behemoth M&K.  

My room is 14 x 16 and contains Spendor D9’s. I sit 9’ from the speakers. And have what I consider excellent sound stage. BUT I have not heard enough properly setup systems to really have a viable opinion.
Some D7.2 Spendors will work. IMO.

I used to own Sonus Faber Olympica 3 and now own Sonus Faber Amati Traditional I just recently helped  friend outfit and tune his 9’ by 12’ audio room with Wilson Watt Puppies. 

You would be very safe with Olympic 3. They are not huge speakers and if we assume you are going to have a 6’ triangle and place the speakers along the narrow wall (after a year of experimentation that is where we ended up with my friends system) then you have 2.5’ on either side and easily three feet behind... or more. They will sound great with that.

One of the great things about Sonus Faber is you can put the speakers really close and pointed right at your a they never get harsh. That is not true with many speakers, They are really flexible in spaces. 

We have treated my friends room... you can turn that system really loud and rock out and it sounds simply fantastic.. I really don’t think you should have any hesitation on Olympica Nova 3. I would imagine that with treatment used at moderate volumes Serefino will sound even better. I guess if it was my money I would get the Serefino.

I just went through a slow and methodical movement of my speakers from close to the wall. I have a very large room, so this is not completely applicable to your room. I was surprised, they sounded good a foot or two from the wall, not something I would not be happy with But the best is out about five feet. But it isn’t like night and day... they really sounded great everywhere. If closer, they need more dampening behind to get a really deep soundstage. 

@zlone   Dealers/sellers always push stand mounts and sub(s) for smaller rooms. Why? They have you set up for an upgrade path and they have already sold speaker stands and subwoofer(s) that are not needed for the room. The question is how serious and committed with room treatments are you? I would rather spend my money on room treatment then speaker stands and sub(s) that can't be implemented correctly(due to space).in a smaller room.

+1 on the room treatments. Amongst the best money I have spent. 
When I went to audition my D9’s they were at a legit reviewers house. I was actually STUNNED when upon seeing his audio room. And took note of treatments. 
When he found out the size of my room he made strong emphasis to put a sound absorbing panel behind my head. 
Glad I listened.

Your room size is not that much different than mine. I use Audio Note speakers and have them in the corners of my room. Absolutely spectacular. 
 

john

Appropriate room treatment can make a small room sound much bigger and accommodate larger speakers. A front ported speaker works best when you don't have room to pull them out.

I found the issue in my room to be related to the woofers being 3 feet off the floor. The nodes created between the floor and ceiling persisted despite extensive bass trapping and diffusion. What worked for me was using a Marchand HPF at 80hz and having a sub on the floor.

I also use a White Instruments 4856 graphic equalizer to tame peaks and nodes. That's something that requires experience and persistence. I use an RTA to start, getting things essentially flat. Then comes the hard part. Extensive listening to familiar music, analyzing which frequencies need changes, and an iterative process for refining the settings over time. 

It's not brain surgery but does take time to learn to associate particular frequencies with the changes you want to make, and it adds another dimension to the hobby that I enjoy. After a couple of hours of tuning I can sit back and enjoy months of listening without being distracted by hearing something I don't like. 

I would prefer a room and system that didn't require the EQ but I don't have the room to build that so I optimize what I have. 

Definitely visit PS audio their Aspen FR5 is in another league. The design and engineering involved puts most to shame Sonus faber included. With the stand mounts your room limitations will be nonexistent. 
 

Cheers 

In a room that size I’d be very tempted to go with in-wall speakers. There are some surprisingly good ones out there that will outperform most floorstanders (small or otherwise) crammed into a small room. 

The room can be treated to accept a larger speaker. I think Rockport Atria ii speakers could do very well in your room. Good luck!

Zlone

"Bonus question I am going to AXPONA next week is there anything that I absolutely should hear when I am there?"

Great start for sure, Axpona will grant you access to a bunch of gear. I'd suggest Fritz, Joseph Audio, Magico, Alta Audio, Fyne Audio, Linkwitz, Vivid, and anyone else you wish. I'm just not sure how the whole tariff situation is going to hit prices. I'll be there Saturday and Sunday, Axpona is always a highlight for me

@zlone you didn't mention a budget.  Some good suggestions regarding speakers that are designed to be placed close to the front wall.  Also if there was a sealed woofer design or a front port vs. a rear port that might work better.  I think a good stand mount that goes lower in the bass is still an option since they often match a modest floorstander.

All about placement and setup.  I use Klipsch Forte IV's with a REL S/510 in a room that's 12x10 with 9-12 foot ceiling, arranged asymmetrically.  Probably not a typical choice for a room that size, but works out better than my Salk monitors (with same sub), now in the living room system.

You need front ported loudspeaker, try triangle borea BR4.

Sorry for disappearing, busy weekend. Thanks for all of the suggestions. I recently ran REW on my room, and room treatments are in order, maybe I should start there.

I am not at all unhappy with my KEF's, but always thinking I can go up a notch or two in the quality of the sound and smaller floor standers seem like the best option.

I am sure I will get more ideas this coming weekend. 

I forgot to comment that I did recently add my REL 7i into the mix, but even though it blended well, the quality of the bass seemed sub-par to that of the KEF's. Does that make sense? I pulled it back out.

I have aprox. the same size room 12 1/2 x 12 1/2, I’m running AE 509’s, they’re not overpowering at all and I only have them 4 inches from the rear wall. The longer I play them, the more I enjoy them. If you have a chance to audition the AE 509’s or the AE 520’s check them out.

Big speakers in a small room requires placement testing.

My La Scala's are in a 11X12 room with speakers on the short wall and my listening position putts my head less than 6 feet away.

I have two Amazon absolution panels 2x4  2 inches thick, sitting on top of the couch behind my head.

My listening level is generally below 70 htz,

When first moving into our unit I was worried that the La Scala's would not work, I also use a old 1970 Velodyn 15inch  Sub

Biggest problem was speaker positioning. the smaller the room the less flexibility you have in positioning, Mine are now 3 inches from back wall and slightly toed in.

I did loose some sound stage depth, but the sound stage is rock solid .

My system starts with a Raspberry Pi with a PI2AES hat the provides I2S out via HDMI limited to 24x192, 2 terabytes of digital music extracted to CD standard 16x44.1. The I2S output goes to Pontus 2 12 th ver2, XLR  out to a Schiit Freya S ( non tub ) RCA out to a Decware Torii Jr Ver2

BTW  PI2AES is a recent change from Audirvan Studio on a PC with USB out to Pontus Dac. The Raspberry solution is not a dramatic change but it is noticeable, sound stage strengthened and overall sound placement within the sound stage

Enjoy the music 

Being familiar with REW you should be able to accommodate any speaker. What causes people to experience room overload is simply the inevitable room modes. It’s the peaks that are responsible, peaks that can be 15/20 dB higher than the average in room SPL. These peaks will obviously take much longer to decay and this leads to the 3 complaints of: boomy bass, one-note bass or slow bass.

Get the room dialed in and that trio of problems disappears. Room treatment and a couple of small subs will sort out not only the bass but the full spectrum

The REL sub you own I think has phase flip only and this complicates matters in so far as finding the best position for it. Consider something like a pair of SVS SB1000 PRO or any other subs that provide variable phase adjustment so that you can place them where they are unobtrusive. or where convenient and not be restricted. It is better to have sealed subs and not ported because ports are frequency invariant and are bass sources that can’t be tuned. REW and mic are your best friends. Choose the speakers you desire and note that when the peaks are tamed and the nulls filled in you will be hearing much more than before and even at low SPL will sound great. Good Luck at the show.

Thanks for the additional comments, I will be pursuing some room treatments. @sawbuck I built a custom Pi/Digi streamer a few years back with good success. I nigh have put it back in to see how it compares to the Innuos. 

The Pi /  Digi Signature is an excellent solution, I used Moode Audiio as my streamer software. At the time I was also using a MiniDSP SHD going out to a Crown Amp with very good succes