It’s not just a niche hobby, it’s also, as far as I can tell, a solitary hobby. It might even be a hobby that is attractive to introverts. Damn, I think I just described myself ☺️
Encouraging people to consider a traditional 2 channel stereo system.
IEMs, headphones, streaming by phone...if someone even listens at all.
How can we as enthusiasts in this hobby get people interested in a more traditional 2 channel stereo setup using speakers and associated gear?
Even cheaper ChiFi sounds pretty good compared to what some of us had when we first started but it doesn't take a fortune to build nice sounding systems that work well and can be enjoyed for many years.
What can we do to support this hobby, its gear manufacturers and promote physical media too although many may prefer streaming?
Essentially, promoting a gateway into the hobby as well as a pathway for growth and upgrading over the long term?
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I've had 4 friends over the past 2 years, who after hearing my main and secondary 2 channel systems, either purchased my secondary system or asked me to find a similar system for them. 3 remain quite happy and the other has already upgraded...these systems all under $1000 MSRP and of course much less if factory refurb or used... |
Thanks @larsman . My fervent hope is that people pay more attention to the things that actually matter most and stop allowing politicians to distract them from their own best interests. |
Agree with what's been said. Most people just don't care. I've had some non audio nuts hear my rig, and while they thought it was cool, they still choose to stream compressed media by Bluetooth to a portable speaker. People just don't care. My wife is perfectly happy blaring you tube music vids out of her phone speaker sounding like a kazoo. |
@mapman + 1 |
Dude, we are the last generation, a dying breed. To paraphrase Clark Gable, no one gives a damn anymore. Well, a few of us do, enough well heeled ones that engineers feel it’s worth their while to design $600,000 speaker pairs. But I digress. What was I saying? Anything important? Follow the yellow brick road…. |
Lots of good gear at all price levels for anyone interested. More than ever. So someone is buying something just not as much super high end luxury products as in the past. At least not in the USA. Times change and younger folk could mostly care less because they just have no need and often no funds for it. Most people are just struggling to get by. Consider one self very fortunate if that is not the case. Medical costs alone are enough to sink many in this country. But nobody is talking about that. Rather we as immigrants or at minimum descendants of immigrants are programmed daily to mainly fear immigrants. Very sad but we reap what we sow. |
I think even if we look among our own demographic, there is only a small fraction who are bitten by the bug. Most are satisfied with a modest set up (the standards for that have changed too, and some would argue for the better), without delving deeply into the hobby. I can think of a few people over the years who did catch the fever. Did I plant the seed? Doubtful. Over the years I have had a number of people listen to different systems set up in my homes, but I suspect that those that did get "into" hi-fi already had a predisposition to getting involved in the pursuit of sound. I certainly know of people with far more resources than me who could easily buy state of the art systems, but don't. It just isn't as important a part of their lives. That isn't to say they don't listen to music or enjoy it. We are hobbyists who pursue an interest in something that, for many people, is a far more pedestrian pursuit- like the hot rod example someone gave above---how many people drive automobiles but don't get into modifying, tuning, taking advanced driver instruction, go to the track, etc. The "high-end" press has been lamenting the dwindling number of enthusiasts for decades (and it's been a long time since I gave up reading the audio magazines). I had posed a similar question on a hi-end forum a few years ago-- whether we were the "last generation" to have come to adulthood with the aspiration to build a serious hi-fi system. I did get some pushback, in the sense that some younger people were not into their peak earning years yet, that the high-end headphone crowd was just as serious, etc. All true, but in some ways, like all analog production, we are a niche of a niche. In fact, if I were starting out today, I'd seriously wonder whether I'd even be involved in using LPs as a playing medium at this point. I'm not despairing of change--it's a normal process of life. In fact, it seems like more change has occurred in the last decade or so than at any time in my 7 decades on the planet. Here's to enjoying what you have or want. Bill |
I agree. Show don't tell. Recently one of my kids brought friends over. The conversation drifted to music, specifically metal. One thing leads to another, I'm blasting sludge metal for them at ungodly SPLs. From the moment the first notes shook the room I could see the light bulbs going on in their heads. My hope is that a seed was planted. |
My suggestion is, don't waste your time trying to bring someone into the fold. It's likely to be less than fruitful. There is nothing wrong with inviting people to listen to your system. Maybe that is enough to get them started on the path, but doubtful. I wouldn't even bother to give unused equipment to someone. Chances are they will take it if offered, but they probably won't appreciate it. If they are really interested then if you offer to sell it at "deal" type prices then they would likely buy it. It's not just audio. This would apply to almost anything. I used to work part time in a scuba dive store and would see couples and friends come in together to learn to dive. Very rarely were they equally enthusiastic about it. Not saying that they didn't want to do it, but you could almost always pick out who was driving the adventure and who was along for the ride. Sometimes they would stick it out past certification and make it to a year or two. Very rarely would it last, for both of them, longer than that. My wife has recently gotten into mountaineering and has tried to get me into it too. I have the good sense not to go down that road, for multiple reasons. I support her fully in her endeavors, but no thank you. I fully understand her desire to share her new found passion with someone, but it is not going to be me, and it doesn't seem to be any of her friends either. I too would love someone to share my love of music with, but I know for it to be real it needs to be organic. I too, like another poster, believe that this is a niche hobby. Lots of people play music, but very few will actually sit and listen to music without multitasking. Just listen to music. Music for most is something in the background; something extra, but not the primary focus. That's why most aren't willing to spend money on the hobby beyond what's needed for background music or what's needed to make it more convenient in some way. There is just no value in it for them. Sorry if all that sounds harsh, but that's what I believe. |
@zx10
Really? Tell that to the record companies who have produced thousands of multi-track classical recordings on SACD over the last 25 years. Don't know where to find them? Try Presto at Presto Music | Buy classical & opera CDs, DVDs & Blu-rays online In Australia, every new home seems to have a home theatre room just waiting for a soundbar or better. And those that can't get into the housing market seem glued to their phones, often through decent headphones. |
More people are consuming music now over any other time in history. That being said, quality is not as important. Most kids use cheap earbuds, or cheap BT speakers. Most young people use Spotify, they do not offer Hi-rez streams. Not sure it's important for Spotify's huge market share. If it was, they would offer it. What that tells me, most people want selection and ease over quality. My kid (14yo) loves music, has music playing all day long. Most of it is K-pop with some bands we share. My kid listens on their phone 80% of the time, cheap cd player 10% of the time, then my system (records) the rest. They are happy to just have the music playing, don't want a high end complicated system. Put my old setup in their room, it almost never gets used. Been into music all my life in one form or another. In my youth, volume level was most important. It wasn't until my late adult life, that sound quality became more important. My point is, music is important to young people, sound quality is not so much. |
But that's not a "conclusion." It's an absolute fact: The tier was announced back in February 2021 (although teased as many as seven years ago!) |
@cleeds - So much for AI? AI can only work with the information it's given; if that's what Spotify says, and the question was about Spotify, then the answer was spot-on. It's not AI's job to come up with a conclusion like 'This is laughable - Spotify lossless has been 'forthcoming' for years'.... |
I think truth and accuracy matter. So when the AI that you quoted proclaims:
That’s just laughable. Spotify lossless has been "forthcoming" for years: Spotify HiFi is the popular music streaming service’s long-anticipated entry into lossless (CD-quality) streaming. The tier was announced back in February 2021 (although teased as many as seven years ago!) and promised to launch by the end of that year... and yet it still isn’t here. |
Yes, Spotify does not yet offer lossless, but honestly, who cares? Get a decent setup with properly positioned speakers and reasonably decent equipment, and you’re off to experiencing good, involving sound. I say "yes" to lossy formats if it helps people get involved. Less snobbery, more inviting and welcoming behavior. That can’t be so hard. |
I've always had a good 2 channel system at 79 in the old days 2 channel's all there was. Now my system will blow your socks off even if you're not wearing any. Music recording and concerts are always 2 channel. Also have a 9 channel Dolby Atmos surround system with Klipsch speakers for movies , TV shows and sports. The idea is the soap opera effect which immerses you in the experience but I don't like that for music because it doesn't seem real. Just me I guess
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What’s worked for me is just to let people listen. The basics of my system have been evolving and improving over a number of years. Some was vintage when I started, some has become vintage over time, but it's been modified, reconfigured, and refined about as far as I can take it. After chasing out most of the gremlins I could find, it’s gotten to the point where I honestly feel that it’s on the impressive side for what is not a high dollar rig. The system can play CD, SACD, LP, or from a PC. I have 3 sons who all come over and listen periodically for an audio and music night, and sometimes they’ll bring friends....most/many of them have some version of a home theater setup, and they’re typically pretty impressed with the soundstage and clarity that an old school stereo system can produce. They often report how boring their systems sound when they go back home and listen. |
Think about it. Let's say you got interested in audio in the 60's, 70's, even the 80's. What were the options? What would you have been into in the following decades? I honestly can't say for myself. In the 60's and 70's I was all into better sound. I was horrified riding with friends who had an 8 track in their vehicle. The stuff others had at home was beyond horrible, although they felt that, turning it up loud enough, made it all ok. There were some good electronics back then, i.e. Dynaco et al.., but the speakers were crap. I mean, really, essentially crap. The high end meant acoustic suspension, like AR. That meant lots of bass, and play it loud. There wasn't streaming, there weren't AirPods, tubes were out and terrible SS was in, and then, for heaven's sake, came "perfect sound" and digital, as though no one was actually listening to this stuff. I remember going a few miles to a hifi shop in Jacksonville and hearing Heart's Dreamboat Annie played on a set of Dahlqiust DQ-10's. What the hell! I was hooked! Nowadays that would lkely not have occurred. Although good old 2 channel still remains the best, the other options are quite distracting, not to mention easy. You can hook your phone up to a couple of wireless speakers or earphones and it's pretty good. For most people pretty good is good enough. In times past, those were 8 track people. There are more of them now, and for them that's just fine. I go crazy riding with people like my son who has background streaming stuff going in his car all the time. It's hard to introduce real 2-channel audio to people for whom music is like riding in an elevator. It's not like decades ago when the difference was more extreme and the options less. Face it, most people read trash novels and have no perception of the great books. It's no different in audio. Most people, for better or for worse, are simply not going to be connoisseurs. But some people always will be. It's just not as easy for them to find the good stuff as it once was. You never know. My #2 son, in his 40's, suddenly discovered classical music and started learning piano and going to concerts. My #1 son, who is a natural musician, is still living with Nirvana and tapping his fingers along with his car streamer set to background volume. You can't worry about this. Just enjoy what you enjoy, show interested others what you have, and don't sweat the small stuff. There's a whole lot of small stuff. |
I'd suggest that younger people are demonstrating an active interest in high-fidelity audio in several ways (some assist here from AI): Embracing Lossless Streaming and Hi-Res Audio: With services like Spotify HiFi (forthcoming) and Apple Music Lossless becoming more accessible, younger listeners are increasingly opting for higher-quality audio formats over compressed files. Rediscovering Physical Media (Vinyl and CDs): There's a notable resurgence in physical music formats, particularly vinyl records and, to a lesser extent, CDs. It's reasonable to think that the tactile experience, the album artwork, and the sense of ownership – along with turntable purchases shows interest in audiophilia. Investing in Quality Headphones and IEMs (In-Ear Monitors): Many younger listeners are moving beyond basic earbuds and investing in higher-quality headphones and IEMs. Engaging with Audio Communities Online: Social media platforms, forums (like Reddit's r/audiophile), and YouTube channels dedicated to audio gear, reviews, and listening experiences are thriving with younger viewers/listeners. Exploring Vintage Audio Gear: There's a growing trend among younger enthusiasts to seek out and even restore vintage audio equipment like old receivers, turntables, and speakers. Some of this evinces appreciation for classic design and build quality. |
@mapman you had to....! |
@devinplombier Wrote:
I agree! Mike |
nonoise - yes - But I think it goes deeper. Old people, like me and others, still value and evaluate music from the standpoint of a live performance. In my case LA Phil, Hollywood bowl and other venues. My goal is to imitate that. The best electronics are still an imitation. Things like the strike of a drum where the attack is a nuanced but present part of the sound. When you have no idea what real live music, regardless of genre, sounds like compressed digital over mediocre earbuds can and frankly does sound good. But not great. Many simply have no baseline comparison.
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To me the missing link is Bose. (If it was a gateway product) How they sold 10s of millions of units. I honestly don't know how, because I never had any itch to buy their products. But they sold to people rich and poor it played music and made them feel special and they enjoyed (I think) the music Can anyone replicate it today? Alexa? An important fact is that most people who own something that plays music don't use it. Other than at Christmas. |
I would believe that that the vast majority of us here are either Baby Boomers or Gen X. Think back to your 20’s, if someone 30+ years older than you tried to get you involved in their hobby that most likely started when they were in their 20’s. Now, try to put yourself in that mindset in 2025, then imagine some old guy trying to get you into a traditional 2 channel audio system.
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I have shared my passion and hobby with others but find most people are not that into the equipment. The good news is that most people I know love music so however they enjoy it is fine with me. I have my endgame setup and a portable Bluetooth speaker and a lot of equipment in between. The one constant is my music on Qobuz. I’m listening wherever I am and loving it. |
I will generalize at the chance of rebuttal for generalizing. As a member of the Baby Boomer generation and in my teens during the Year of Love, no matter how shallow or deep your hippie social- democratic philosophies were at the time, everyone strived to own the best stereo they could afford, because music was part of the movement. As boomers aged, they kept their passion for music as a means of social expression, and as they became more affluent, they developed a focus on materialism, which together facilitated growth of the hi-end market. The generations after X, seem to focus on the experience rather than materialism, with certain exceptions such as cars, bling, and cloths including sneakers. These exceptions become part of an experience. So if you wish to impress the value we audiophiles see in hi-end equipment to younger generations, make it an experience in some way. I will never forget going to the high school music teacher’s home in queens for a barbecue and him demonstrating his Mac floor to ceiling line array speakers, 4 mono amps, preamp, Thorens TT, and Tanberg real to real playing Led Zeppelin ll, and Copland Fanfare. It was an experience I will not forget. |
So many variables and posts that I agree with in this thread. Vinyl had a resurgence which I’m sure captured a portion of the younger population. In correlation (not saying causation), older Marantz receivers prices went up exponentially over the course of a few years, which I’d like to think went into the hands of younger generations around the same time. I feel like I’ve read a few articles in the past suggesting how the resurgence in vinyl started, but I’d love to see some hard numbers on the age ranges and this physical medium. Unsure how you would track the same for Marantz which is simply a left-field connection I’m trying to make. |
Another thing is, no one with intact cognitive abilities will tolerate being lectured about $1000 USB cables and $3000 network switches for long, nor about mummified Audiophiles prattling on about the unwashed proletariat’s envy of their highly resolving systems which they, of course, can’t afford. Just sayin |
