Not to mention the likelihood that the CD transport injects noise onto the power cord which can affect other components.
A CD transport includes three feedback loops: a servo mechanism for adjusting the height of the laser above the pits on a rotating disk; a control system to regulate the flow of bits by slowing down the rotational speed of the platter; and a mechanism for tracking the pit spiral towards the outer edge of the disk. Most likely these are realised digitally.
Then there is the digital logic to apply the Reed Solomon Error Correction Code. Altogether quite an electrically noisy environment!
@richardbrandcorrect. It all matters. Also looking at OP’s system pictures - all of the components are only few inches away from each other. I would spread them out. Few months ago I ordered an EMF meter - an essential tool for setting up and tuning a system. Very interesting to see how much EMI each component generates and radiates out.
I had some cheap monster cable RCA's connected and we switched in some Cardas Clear RCA's. The improvement in sonics was very noticeable. In fact CD's sounded better than my streaming front end where before streaming always sounded better.
I bought the Cardas Clear RCA's and put them on my phono stage to the pre amp. I rarely use the CD player so I didn't want to spend 2.5k on another pair!
Thanks for sharing the EMF device link. Good recommendation but I don’t think many of us have the luxury to space out our components. At best, we can try to isolate the worst offenders. I watched the video and honestly shocked to see the reading from microwave. I just placed an order off Amazon, it will be interesting to see which component of mine needs the most isolation.
In the light of seeing attacks from the streaming community for playing CD and the Delta Sigma bullies for asking about NOS, I’m okay with @jasonbourne71
I discovered recently that if you say “gullible” slowly enough, it sounds like “cable”.
Perhaps if Jason 71 had put it this way; “It’s possible but, if there is a difference it will be many orders of magnitude smaller than spending an equivalent amount of money on upgrading your speakers” people might not be so rude to him.
There is a genuine role amongst the “audiophile” community for scepticism. Otherwise we are all vulnerable to snake oil pedlars.
The only way to know the answer to this question would be to do a double crossover randomised control trial and apply a statistical process to determine whether the results are likely to be due to chance, or not.
I’ve been into audio since 1969. The acuity of my hearing is not what it was. But the credo I used in choosing components back when my hearing was very good, was never to pay more for something that I couldn’t immediately appreciate as an improvement. I never regretted a single purchase based on this approach.
My hearing is deteriorating, but my appreciation of music and the pleasure it brings is still increasing. This is likely to happen to all of you, too, as the decades advance.
In the meantime, I hope you all can appreciate the music.
Objectivists say - theory says it doesn't matter, so it can't matter. Empiricists say, observation tells me it does matter. Technically informed empiricists then attempt to find out why, at a theoretical level, it does matter. The latter is how the state of knowledge advances and is all the better for that, in my opinion.
Empiricism, subjectivism, objectivism, et al are interesting classifications of thought but no matter what label you put on one’s way of thinking, they all distill down to individual sensory perception. It can’t be any other way. It’s all sensory input. I’m gonna call it Sensorial Perceptionism. Fancy! Feel free to spread it around or, you know, not. Either way, my senses won’t perceive any hard feelings. Or will they...? Beats me, I put on two different shoes this morning.
Anytime one of these wire threads come up I am always amazed at the non believing responses as they are derived from ignorance and or financial jealousy. It seems like many are afraid that anything that might be better is a reflection of the size of there manhood. Most of the doubtful posters likely don’t think there is a difference in one bottle of scotch to the next. There choice for best costs 20 dollars it it is the same as a 20 000 dollar bottle yet they have never tasted it. Many on here would be better to be happy with what they have and quit trying to belittle people that have more to spend then they do. There lives would be more peaceful and rewarding when they realize that.
Your post outlines an interesting contrast between the two perspectives. I believe striking a balance between the two perspectives is the key.
Theoretical models need to evolve as new data comes in, which ultimately leads to more accurate and sophisticated understandings of the world. It’s in this constant feedback loop that the richness of human knowledge grows.
Curiously, cable-contrarians claim 'science' to substantiate their arguments. Using measurements as sophistry. How does one measure qualitative vs quantitative? Just like the taste of scotch - mentioned above.
Thanks for the various comments. A couple more observations, if I may. As far as I'm concerned, when it comes to engineering, if it doesn't contradict the laws of physics, anything is possible. Secondly, when it comes to measurements, there are issues with aggregation. For example, differences in measured performance at component level can get buried when the aggregate performance of a device is measured. Thirdly, multi-variable dynamic phenomena are the hardest to model. Formula cars provide a good example of the latter. A team like Mercedes can go from having a dominant car to one which is marginally competitive in the space of one season. That's notwithstanding having an army of the best engineers and simulation and measurement tools. There is plenty of snake oil, mostly at the margins, of the hi fi industry. But there is also a huge amount of effort by honest, well motivated engineers attempting to advance the state of the art. Personally, I think that should be respected and given credit.
I power my CD transport with clean AC energy from its own nuclear reactor. I use a small nuclear reactor for each component to keep the AC current cleaner. 😏
Interestingly I have access to a couple of Sony universal disc transports, which handle CD, SACD, DVD, BluRay and Ultra BluRay. Each transport has two HDMI outputs, one purely for audio.
Each is powered by a 12-Volt wall wart, so it would be very easy to substitute a 12-Volt car battery for the mains supply and do some A / B comparisons.
What objections are likely to be raised by the community, a) if there is no clear audible difference or b) if a clear audible difference is reported?
You’re likely NOT to hear a difference would be my guess. The Power Supply in those types of units are made with the cheapest parts that can be sourced. But, acknowledging your point, I never tried what you’re suggesting, so I can’t say for sure.
As I said a year ago, (when this thread was started), you’re going to need a higher-end unit with much higher end, heavier duty (usually separate for analog and digital) power supplies to hear a difference with a power cord change. I’ve tried power cord swaps on $699 MSRP players and didn’t really hear much of a change at all. I’ve also tried swaps on $3k+ players, and the change was immediate, and very noticeable.
I still stand by that. The change is real, but you have to start with something quality, not a $39 WalMart DVD player. Give it a shot, though if you’re feeling froggy. You can always re-hook the Wall Wart power wires back up with wire-nuts, lol.
There will not be any quantifiable difference whatsoever by swapping power cords. None. Now, what you tell your brain to tell you is a different thing.
It occurs to the casual observer that a more expensive device would have less need for any aftermarket mitigation due to having a better power supply in the first place. It also occurs that any reported reduction in noise would be quantifiable as noise is a quantifiable phenomenon, as would the frequency spectra of that noise. Great claims require great evidence.
@squared80, I'm guessing you don't own a $3k+ cd player. Also, define "quantifiable". You keep telling yourself that.....because once you know, you know forever. Unquantifiable? Lol.
"Doesn't amperage play a part in this? I also don't see the correlation between changing the power source with changing the power cord"
Many of us have to make do with 240-Volt mains supply, so already need less than half the amperage of the 110-Volt crowd!
I am proposing an experiment where an AC mains power supply (which happens to be external to the transport and converts AC to 12-Volt DC) is replaced by a 12-Volt battery. The AC power cord is not just changed, it is completely removed. The mains AC, with all its alleged noise, is also completely removed. If need be, the battery and the low voltage cable can be shielded by a Faraday cage.
12-Volt Amperage consumed by the transport would be unchanged, and quite small.
Personally, I would expect the output from the transport, as delivered via HDMI, to be indistinguishable at the bit level. But there may be an impact on other components from the removal of the wall wart (switched mode power supply). Not bought from Walmart!
But there may be an impact on other components from the removal of the wall wart (switched mode power supply).
yes. You got it! Nothing exists in isolation - it’s an ecosystem. I talked about it in my earlier reply to this post and I think we’re on the same page.
I’ve been using aftermarket power cords on CD players, CD Transports and network streamers for years. I have not heard my system sound exactly identical with different power cables on digital front end. As a matter of fact I had just tried 3 power cables on my Aurender N200 streamer and they all resulted in different sonic presentation. And Aurender N200 has a really nice and solid linear power supply and is plugged into a dedicated circuit. I don’t do quick a/b. I run cables for at least a day before I evaluate. But…to each his own.
For those who like stock powrr cords and SMPS, cool by me. Your thoughts and beliefs do not affect the sound of my system in any way. Enjoy the music!
I am hoping to breach the topic after the first of the year of how seasoned audio veterans can reach diametrically opposed conclusions. This, of course, would assume "due diligence" where careful personal experience (viewpoints NOT opinions) were injected into the conversation. Something that may "peg the needle on your BS meter" and therefore enthusiastically dismissed, will not qualify nor meet the minimum qualification for "hands on/ears on."
I also find it interested how entire product categories that have been "established" for decades and have an 80%+ adoption rate by this group (I did the survey) are still dismissed as "snake oil", "pseudo science", or "listening bias." It would take a vast conspiracy to trick dozens of quality manufacturers, their design/engineering teams, hundreds of reps/distributors, an extensive dealer network, and thousands end users into believing that they've been duped and benefits are all contrived and imaginary.
Call me naive, but I'd like to believe that audio industry veterans who actually sit down in front of prospective audio gear are actually hearing "something" and correctly relating those observations with a degree of credibility. I have too much respect for those who offer opinions (based on actual experiences) here, to dismiss their findings as rubbish, and not worth taking seriously.
I think fancy power cables make people feel better and that in itself is a benefit. I own a few, and they do make me feel better although I don't think they sound any better, but so what? They look cool, and I'm helping the employees of those companies feed their families or buy interesting sports cars. Win win.
My experience is that everything matters in an audio system. That includes cables, and yes, power cables. Even on source components. Sometimes especially on source components.
People are free to disagree with my opinions. We all draw the line somewhere. I don't believe in or hear benefits from some of the more "out there" tweaks on the market, but I hold no ill will towards people who enjoy using them in their systems. To each their own.
This is the way I think of it and I maybe wrong so please add if I am way off base::
The electricity I receive at my humble abode is generated over 100 miles away. It goes through step up and step down transformers before it reaches my house. From there it flows through 25 year old 6 to 12 gauge wire until it finally reaches my outlet. How on gods green earth can a 6 foot cable running into my amplifier make a difference?
A good question not likely to receive a satisfactory answer for you.
But, we hear what we hear. Who are we to judge either those who hear a difference or those who don't. Both are right. Those who hear a difference flat out hear a difference no matter the reason. I find it silly when those who don't hear a difference post that people who do are wrong, like they know better than the person who is actually experiencing it. Whether it's due to some as yet undiscovered scientific explanation or individual perceptual reality bias, we hear what we hear.
We've known how to utilize electricity for our purposes for a long time, yet it's still not truly understood how in its most basic constituents all that voodoo works.
So I don’t own a cd player now but what I’d like to add to the conversation is that I completely believe in cables and from my experience the same cables that were an amazing upgrade for my amp, did not play well with my DAC or Streamer. I believe different components need different things out of the cables. In my case I’m pretty sure the Streamer needed more filtering than my amps. Maybe if I were using a power conditioner cable results would have been different.
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