A high quality graphic equalizer. Or you could search for just the combination of components and cables forever.
I'd recommend selling those to someone who likes them and buying speakers that sound the way you want.
79 responses Add your response
Put those B&W up for sale. it is their bread and butter to have thin, harsh, edgy, sharp and piercing presentation to their midrange and treble. Some can be fixed with extra damping that is focused on certain frequencies, or you can do the best thing and out it up for sale for someone who can't hear beyond 6kHz who will like B&W's weird presentation of tonal identity. For the Franco Serblin speaker if it is the one I think it is, they're recessed in the lower treble, but the mid treble and upper treble is obnoxious. Room dimensions and what are your amp and source? @onehorsepony
I'd rather you go for a balanced within preference research speakers and let that be the baseline for your system |
@onehorsepony Wrote:
Look here Mike |
There are so many speakers out there that aren’t as bright as yours (Sonus Faber, for one). Sorry, you’ve just got to do the research and figure this one out for yourself, as this situation requires in-person/in-home/in-store auditioning for you to know for sure what’s best to your eras. Personally, I love the sparkle and natural tone that you get with Diamond/ Beryllium tweeters when implemented properly. My Revel Salon 2 speakers have one of the most brilliant, yet smooth, detailed and transparent, musical, non-fatiguing, tweeters I’ve ever heard (Beryllium), and I’ve heard quite a few. Go listen to as many speakers that you can, even if you have to travel to get to hear them in person. That’s the best (only) way. Also, you can always try to tone down the tweeters of the B&W's by trying to power them with tubes, experimenting with cables, components, etc.. If I were in your shoes, I’d ditch the speakers. Happy listening. |
If you like the clarity you're getting but the brightness is too intense, perhaps something with a ribbon tweeter? I was very impressed with these and in your price range – you might consider the one up, too: https://apertura-audio.com/en/products/edena-evolution/ |
First, take your time and carefully choose your approach. Try to band aid it or rethink your choices and put together a synergistic system that sound exactly the way you want it to. I had a very dry and detailed oriented system and did a major upgrade before retiring. First thing I did was to switch over to Sonus Faber speakers. It is very likely you are going to be able to listen to music more in your retirement... and it is also likely you will come to appreciate a more musical system. One that is very emotionally engaging. The first step is the speakers to consider. Sonus Faber also look incredible. You want natural and musical ones. So, I would look to audition some Sonus Faber. Used are good as well, up to about 10-12 years ago. Before that they were even more relaxed and warm... perhaps too much. Alternatively, you can examine your cabling and electronics. If you have some real hot / detailed electronics like Benchmark then swopping for warmer would be needed. Cardas cabling and interconnects are very warm especially the lower level ones. This could be the ticket if you want to do a minimum.
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Sell them, buy a pair of Spendor Classic 1/2s, and start enjoying your life and music again. Life is too short to deal with gear you don't like! No cable, power confitioner, tube, or amp/preamp change can sufficiently or fundamentally change a speaker that was engineered to be inherently bright... simply will not happen. |
OP here's some info on Franco Serblin https://www.stereohifi.nl/loudspeakers/stereowise-loudspeaker-f/stereowise-l-speaker-franco-serblin |
Interesting that all of the advice so far has been to ditch your 802D diamonds. While that is always an option, I would call it a last resort approach. B&W sells more speakers, high end speakers, than any other company in the world. And the 802 D diamond is one of their best, many prefer it to more recent iterations of the 802 series. So before deciding that there is no hope for these speakers, I suggest you take stock of your situation in a wholistic manner. After you have really explored all of the options if new speakers are called for that is always an option. Since B&W specializes in monitor loudspeakers, your 802s are relatively flat in frequency response as measured in an anechoic chamber. But what about your room? I don’t know anything about your room, but it is reasonable to guess that there are many resonances and that might be the root cause of the brightness you are hearing. I strongly recommend that you consider system setup as your first priority. You will want to make sure that your speakers are out into the room at least 27" from the back wall, the distance between them is ~ 8’-10’ and your seating position should be about the same distance away. If the room is very hard you should consider room treatments. Although the 802s do not need more bass, you very well could benefit from a PAIR of subwoofers mounted to either side and behind and/or in the corners of the room if possible. Subs do wonderful things for minimizing standing waves and this would help tame the harshness you are hearing. If you are comfortable doing so, you might want to seek a professional to assist you with set up. Even if you ultimately decide on different speakers, proper setup benefits every system. You have a very nice system and there is no reason to think that it cannot be improved by paying careful attention to setup. |
@OP It does sound like you have a room and setup problem - see https://www.stereophile.com/content/bw-802d-loudspeaker-measurements - coupled with the fact that your amplification is not the most synergistic match for 802Ds. BTW, apropos the post above, while B&W make a big hoo ha about being used in Abbey Road, they are not studio monitors. Having owned a pair myself for hi fi purposes - and sold them due to their inaccurate frequency response - they are a very long way down the list of speakers I would use as studio monitors. |
When i'm setting up speakers and they're bright or have that glare in the midrange I pull them away from the first reflection point. In my tv room I'll pull the in front of the monitor a little more than usual and if I can't get them away from the sidewall enough I use more extreme toe in. Looking at response curves for bright speakers, not necessarily B&W, jagged measurements evan fairly slight can cause trouble in the wrong room so maybe some digital room correction software? good luck |
"B&W sells more speakers, high end speakers, than any other company in the world. And the 802 D diamond is one of their best, many prefer it to more recent iterations of the 802 series." I can tell by your post you've never had a pair of these speakers. The reason B&W sells so many speakers is they look nice, have an exciting sound that makes you say "wow" when you first hear them and they have really good distribution. Most high end speaker brands don't have the manufacturing capacity to fill a chain like BestBuy. If you notice from the comments, most of us had B&W speakers at one time. But the key word is had. So yes, they sell a lot of speakers but people tend not to keep them. I know some people mentioned fooling with the room. It won't fix this problem. Unless you are willing to put something in between you and the tweeter, it won't help. And when I say help, I mean cover up, not fix. You can spend a fortune trying to fix these speakers. I'm not saying you can't get them to sound good, its just that it may be more trouble than its worth. If the choice was mine, I would get different speakers and be done with it. |
The best way to fix speakers that are not pleasing to you is to get new speakers. There are so many good ones to choose from that it can be overwhelming. You might start by auditioning the Sonos Faber Serafinos These are excellent speakers with a touch of warmth that will never be fatiguing. Some people might find them “soft” while others will think the presentation is exactly what they want. No substitute for listening. |
"I can tell by your post you've never had a pair of these speakers." LOL! As a matter of fact I do own a pair of these speakers. I know them intimately and know their strengths and weaknesses. With these, or for that matter any speakers, "fooling with the room" is everything. You have admitted your own limitations in your post. Make no mistake, though, the OP has a room problem, and 802 D diamonds when properly set up are not overly bright or harsh. |
Onehorsepony, at 8:26am you posted ’set up could be an issue’. Yet you seem to imply that it is a problem you don’t care to deal with. There are several people on this site who could help you with the entire set up issue if you choose not to do some independent research yourself. To get this input you need to describe, with specificity, your room dimensions, placement of windows and other openings, and wall furnishings, ceiling, and floor coverings. You then need to identify the present location of your speakers and listening chair in inches so folks can tell where they are and how they are canted. This information could start a meaningful dialogue which might solve your problems, or at least, minimize them. Or in the alternative you can take the advice of posters who own, owned in the past, or make a living off selling what they recommend, without any of them knowing what causes your issue other than your generic description, or you knowing as much about their system as they do about yours. Your choice. |
Of all the advice, getting an EQ is the worst. Your room is a big part of the sound. Look into ways to incorporate soft items into the room. Rugs if you have hard floor coverings, etc. I’ve had luck with well placed plants like you see at audio shows. Are you only on digital sources? Consider adding analog. Are you all solid state? Consider getting a tube based preamp. Also note that most advice you receive here boils down to “buy what I’ve got”. Use your ears. Investigate, try stuff. This is the fun part of the hobby. |
I agree with @dishman442 about the room. My room is acoustically treated with panels on all four walls and the ceiling. Also, the floor has a large area rug over the wood flooring. With my 803 D3 toed-in (per the manufacturer) it was too bright. Facing them straight ahead worked wonders. Also made soundstage larger. |
@soix +1 Mike |
If repositioning doesn't work, I'd suggest trying a Schiit Loki Max to take down the top end a little bit. It's a lot less money and hassle than selling and buying speakers, and you might find it useful to adjust some recordings, to boot. Occasionally, they appear on the used market, or you could try Schiit's policy that lets you try at home for 15 days and return it for a 5% restocking fee. Or maybe it's just me who hates dealing with speaker changes.
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I had the B&W 702 S2 and also the 705 S3. They look beautiful but they were too sibilant for me after trying several things. Suggest doing what I did, sell them and move on. Enjoy your retirement with great sounding speakers. You’ve been given a lot of good suggestions. Work with a local dealer if you can. At that price range they should help you set them up and try them in your listening room to make sure you’re happy. |
Too bright !!!!! How do l tone down? If your upper midrange / tweeters are too bright, turn your speakers upside down. It’s logical….try it, it’s not a joke. It will cost nothing. The tweeters will not be at ear level. The bass will be at ear level solving your other problem too. Some solutions can sound illogical or whacky, but this can work with some speakers. Has anyone else tried this? It has a similar effect like the differences listening with speaker grills off or on. You have nothing to loose thinking outside the boxes……so to speak. |
I know the feeling. I had the opposite experience of what everyone said I should have with a bright sound. I have Wilson Sophia 1 that everyone, friend, dealers and Wilson say have a brighter presentation with the titanium inverted dome tweeter compared to their newer soft dome tweeters. I tried the Alexia 1, Sasha DAW and now have the Yvettes up for sale because all those were bright in my room. Maybe things would be 'normal' for you and the newer Wilsons would work. They are beautiful sounding speakers, in general, so if you haven't considered them I would. There are many different models to choose from used at your budget. Good luck! |
Yep, a little late. Don’t resort to artifice like equalizers, filters or über damping your room. Sell your speakers and consider ESL’s. I suggest the ’Final Audio 15’s. They are really extremely neutral. You get unforgivably out of these what you put into them. Look here for more: https://final-audio.com/products/model-15/ I’m sure you won’t regret getting aquainted with these great speakers. Good luck and success in finding! |
@mylogic you would certainly be thinking outside the boxes if you attempted to turn a set of 800 series B&Ws upside down, seeing as there is no flat surface on the head unit of the speaker.
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Outside the boxes thinking? Could try laying them flat on ironing boards…don’t worry, l am only being ironic.
My original inverted (flipped 180 degrees) suggestion was offered more for a solution to any other members on here if their speaker designs were suitable. I did this myself with even rather large Celestion 25’s back in the 70s. It was also very successful with Mission 770’s because the Seas tweeters in these 1980s speakers were very bright. I must add the 770’s bass was so good for a mid sized speaker that you would not have needed a sub even if they were available back then. No harm in experimenting this concept as the results although subtle can make a difference. Studio monitors perform just as well upright, upside down or sideways. This also negates any magnetic differences between the northern, southern hemispheres (or sideways for those living near the equator …..joke intended.
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I had a similar brightness issue with my Focal Kanta 2 speakers, which are my anchors for both stereo and home theatre. I tried the Schitt Loki Max, it was not a good all-around solution (had to fiddle with each track), sold it. I had a BHK preamp, played with different tubes and that had a positive effect when the right tube was used. Toe in, toe out, straight ahead, all made a difference until I found the best angle (straight ahead). The key was cabling. Cardas Cygnus was warm, their Clear works very well for me also. The last pair of cables I swapped in the system, Acoustic Zen Absolute Copper, made it for me. I feared I would live with compromised sound forever but the combination of cables made an amazing transformation. Good luck in your journey. Robert |
