Admitting my error…


Admitting my error of some years ago, when downsizing residences I sold my 1500 lps (my father’s, uncle’s and my collection :) because, of course nearly everything is available digitally, I am considering getting back into vinyl. Kit-wise I’m looking at Dr. Feikert Venti/J Sikora Initial TT level - full kit approx $15k including phonostage.

The Joseph Audio/Doshi/Aurender/J Sikora room at AXPONA simply blew me away. Switching between amazing digital and uber-rich and detailed analog, I kept returning to the room like the sweets table at a Bar Mitzvah. I understand that at $250K the rig was 2x’s mine (Pathos Heritage/Tannoy Kensignton/Innuous MK3/Phoenix USB/NET/Chord HSM/DAVE w/ SJ DC4 ARC6 lpsu. But still the character of the vinyl sound was utterly entrancing.

My question: If I go this route, I’d like to "restock" my collection to some extent by purchasing a reasonably sized vinyl lot, then add selectively over time. Any recommendations as to lot purchasing? ("Don’t do it!" is an acceptable recommendation.)

TIA

 

 
 
 

128x128cantorgale

I wouldn’t try to ‘build an extensive vinyl library’ though I think having a turntable is enjoyable. 
 

I use my turntable less than 10% of the time and it’s a great way to engage friends who like music. 
 

Digital is good and convenient. And for me the it’s easier to hear new stuff. 

re collection: yeah, it strikes me as something like buying a family's wardrobe. Some clothes might fit, some might look good on me, the keyword is "some"

Buy a collection just so you can have a collection?

 

I am sorry, but this sounds like a rich man's problem. Given the what strikes me as the extravagant amount that you are spending on your gear, I’m guessing I’m not far off. 
 

theaudioatticvinylsundays.com

Just about all new vinyl pressings now have a digital stage. 
Most cutting lathes for the master for the vinyl pressings are digitally driven. 
 

so there is no reason to get into vinyl if you are going to buy new pressings. 
 

the only reason for vinyl now is if you have or intend to buy original old pre-digital vinyl pressings. 
 

 

I initially got into records because they quite frankly sound better than digital when you are listening to all analog record (no digital steps), mastered by a top shelf engineer, and pressed by an audiophile label (Analog Productions, Blue Note etc.). I got to say, the more I have gotten better (and more analog sounding) DACs, the smaller the gap in sound quality has gotten. It has gotten to the point, I’m now very reluctant to pay premium prices for out of print records (something I used to do without much thought).

Getting well pressed reissues is expensive business, and used records are a crapshoot. Before delving into vinyl solely for the sound quality, I would suggest thinking about getting a DAC that has the timbre and resolution that aligns more with your taste. To get a vinyl rig that matches sound quality of your Dave, you probably looking at spending $15-20K; it might make more sense to put that money towards getting a higher end DAC. Finally, if you mostly listen to music recorded from the early 80s onwards, I wouldn’t bother with vinyl because you are simply listening to a digital file pressed on plastic; my rule of thumb is, if it’s recorded digitally then listen to it digitally.

If I had to start over I would go all digital and streaming.  The odd CD can be transferred to online storage (or a hard drive if you must).
If you really want to go vinyl, why not get something reasonable like a Rega P-8 or a Technics SL1200 GR.  You can have enormous fun with these, change out cartridges, fiddle with actual media, read the covers and inserts, compete with hipsters chasing down rare records, and show off to friends. Anything more expensive will have a limited return on investment in terms of sound quality.  Sort of like buying a Rolex (a cheap Timex keeps better time).
Of course, if you're loaded go where your heart leads you, but remember those expensive vinyl rigs are tedious and can be frustrating – the fastest way to audio nervosa!

Why take a step backwards in both sound quality and convenience?  It’s really as simple as that, stay with streaming.

I'm sure I've said all this a dozen times, but occasional cracks and pops are fine with me. Gentle warps are fine, too. It's fun watching the tonearm rise and fall. It's off-center pressings, spitty sibilants, and outright distortion in voices & strings that get my goat. Then there are the warps that are sharp enough to bounce the cartridge into the air. Yeah, the record clamp usually mitigates this, but not if the warp is at the proverbial edge.

one more: as other said - digital gets you the same sound quality for much less. The quality of vinyl has a lot of issues. BUT. If you can tell when you are listening to vinyl vs digital and I don't mean the hiss and pop that's probably a sign that vinyl is for you.

I buy 2 used albums a week, 5 to 15 bucks each and at least one of them is junk. Is the other one worth it? ABSOLUTELY. One out of 10 of my finds is an incredible joy I would never experience with digital. Every aspect and step of the vinyl journey.

As others have said, buying used is a crapshoot. And I'm not sure buying a large lot is really all that economical. How many treasures do you think you'd get versus the amount of dreck? Then there's the disposal of the stuff you don't want. Nah. Better to hunt and acquire LPs of the music you want, in the condition you require. Besides, it's more fun that way right?

I inherited my pop's LPs and system. There are 14, 16" long boxes of records to go through. 😲(I didn't have time to review as I packed them.) I'm guessing 85-90% are classical. While I love classical, will I want ALL of them? I won't know until I unpack and catalog but I somewhat doubt it. Then again I won't be hunting for classical LPs for awhile!

Happy listening...

Back in the 70’s, I had to work a few hours to afford to buy an album and it’s not much different today. If you really want to get back into vinyl, I say go for it and buy what you like.

That’s unfortunate. I remember in the 80s when cds came in, people were selling their album collections, including me to a lesser degree, a good audiophile friend of mine vehemently warmed against selling my vinyl collection. I remember what he said to this day “ if you sell your albums, you’re selling your soul.” Many years later when I got back into audio and bought a new turntable, I spent several months buying every single album that I parted with back then, plus about 5 times more as many albums! All I can tell you is splurge as much as you can and enjoy the ride..

If you are going to buy used vinyl you will need to purchase a decent record cleaning machine and replace cheap paper inners with anti static ones. I know as I have been buying used vinyl for years ever since the advent of CD's, when record companies promised that their back catalogues would be appearing on CD but never got round to until recently. Best of luck in whatever you choose to do.

Records are the bomb.  Buy what you can afford and buy new - that's the best way to start a collection. Used records on Ebay/Discogs are mostly disappointing. Used record stores are also inflated in price, but I enjoy frequenting them on weekends when I have no firm plans. It's a choice hobby - so, expect it to be expensive and enjoy. Life's a beach and you....

Don't forget a good ultrasonic record cleaner, especially if you buy used. Not only improves the sound considerably, but also reduces stylus wear. If your cartridge is costly, US cleaner can even be cost-effective. It is for me. 

There r so many variables that are not understood in any of our replies and “insights”.  Thats is why some can enjoy a single media on $1k of system value and others can not with a $300k system value.  The $1k person can truly be crazy happy as can the $300k be truly not.  I THINK, u dumped vinyl for Your Good Reason and you can enjoy OUR hobby via digital, for your reasons, and be ECSTATIC!!   I live on both planes, and every year gravitate more to the way I USE & ENJOY the hobby.  (Music & electronics).  I do wish I could of attended AXPONA.   And I LOVE!  playing tunes for my, much older brother, kids and their Sig Oth’s.   So I stream, unless I have a lot of My Time, then I have to plan on electricity warm up time🫣

A lot will depend upon your musical tastes. Buying used records can be very disappointing. You will find most visually graded which means their quality will be dependent upon what the seller can’t see and surface noises are not always visible. New jazz and classical reissues are very good to excellent and usually cheaper than originals. As for pop and rock, they probably weren’t recorded very well to begin with. Audiophile quality recordings are readily available, but make sure the music suits your tastes. As others have stated, buying an entire lot is expensive and will be time-consuming. You will probably end up not keeping more records that you keep. Research sites like Acoustic Sounds, Music Direct, etc. for buying new and be cautious when buying used.

It rarely, if ever, gets mentioned that buying used vinyl can be a disappointing venture since the vinyl only sounds as good as the condition of the last stylus that traversed those grooves.

I gave up on used vinyl for that reason after springing for ostensibly pristine LPs that were sonically a mess.

In the late 80’s, before she was my ex, I was “persuaded” to sell my collection of 600-700 albums that I faithfully weeded through to eliminate the chaff.

Not one of those albums is currently unavailable so I’m fine with my decision.

if you’re into the ritual then $pend the bucks to go back to vinyl, but if it’s the music that really matters why not stream your music?

 

Top 100 best selling LPs ever.  
 Buy them all!

 

Yes, but is there one person who likes all 100 of them? 

 

When it comes to buying in lots you can get great deals on ripped CD's. Whether a ripped file sounds better than a streamed file depends on your system. You can buy iPods and such off ebay for less than $100 that come preloaded with thousands of songs. It is a crap shoot as to the format, genre and such but for a low investment it is a quick, cheap way to build a library. 

https://www.hifishark.com/search?q=songs

@kota1  +1

If you are not young any more, it's a very good point that you will not have time to buy the LPs you want.  It has taken me 61 years.

So far.

And yes, you will have to pay a lot more than I paid.  I have around 3000 discs.

Used record prices are inflated, as is grading. There are some specialty dealers who are known for consistent grading but they aren’t cheap. It really depends on what kind of music you are chasing. For new issues, the Tone Poets are great fun and Chad’s uMe/Verve series has some of the great warhorses for relatively little money. Quality control isn’t bad on those but there are still issues-- it’s the nature of the thing.

As to buying in "lots,"  you may be forced to travel if it is your intention to buy collections from others but you’ll be competing with dealers. Record shows can be a good source- if you know what you are looking for- kind of depends on your location and how far you are willing to travel. There are collector groups that gather in certain cities--you need to find an "in" with somebody to get you started in those circles-

I’ve bought collections, but I knew the prior owners and most of that was years ago- I overpaid partly due to friendship but it wasn’t a big deal given how much pricing has gone up on some things.

Some of the standard issue hard rock can still be gotten cheaply on places like Discogs but you are vulnerable to misgrading- if hard rock is your thing, I’d recommend that you use the Hoffman forum and do some deep searches for comparisons of pressings- there are huge differences in sonics depending on mastering, country of manufacture, pressing plant and vintage.

Entering the LP market now would require you to do a deep dive. I know one dealer who acts as a "concierge"-- people will give him a budget, he knows their taste and will chase stuff down -- all at a price. That’s the more esoteric side, and costly.

I tend to agree with those who say think about this carefully before you dive in. Even if you have top notch LP playback/front end, your real expenditure is going to be the records. I would not want to try to replace what I have in today’s market- not only b/c of price but because a lot of it isn’t there. (There will probably be a "die off"-- that’s usually where you see dealers at shows with a whole pile of the "usual suspects"--another audiophile went to that big listening room in the sky).

Not to be a buzzkill, but.... :)

Unfortunately, and I am sad to say, the glory days of buying old vinyl at decent prices were over about 5 years ago. Now, with the multitude of new folks wanting to get into vinyl, it is driving their cost to stupid levels. Old CDs are still available for a half way reasonable cost, but it feels like it will also be getting out of reach very soon.

Most suitable answer: Streaming has become king, at least in my system.

If I go this route

Don’t do it, life is to short to start all over from scratch. Instead focus on a GREAT streaming setup and room treatment. If you get your room acoustically pristine even youtube can sound better than it has any right to. I happen to prefer DSD and got a Sony front end from their signature line that can remaster tracks into DSD from any source. Many DAC’s can upsample into higher resolution PCM files. You will be very happy and basically have an infinite catalog from your streamer.

Your system looks great but what about how your room measures? Do you have the FR graph?

Take your time selecting analog equipment, especially the cartridge and phono preamp. If you want to hear something 90%+ of what you heard at the J. Sikora room, you will probably need to both stretch your budget and buy the phono preamp used. Analog is great, but it is very very expensive and you have to ask what you would get by selling your digital equipment and using the extra money to upgrade your digital.. of course you already have a very good digital system. BTW.. I have the same subs as you, but my room is on the floor above my garage and I had to both invest in a number of bass traps and a very very heavy equipment stand. I did this to limit the feedback through the phono cartridge.

I re-entered vinyl play after wondering the desert for sixteen years. I had about two hundred and fifty albums and an equal number of CDs and cassette tapes. Since I am by nature impatient, I purchased new records to fill in the obvious gap in my selection of years past. I was also introduced to new music by my daughters, much of it ( KPop) really isn’t available, except to stream. That said, I found some great records from Billie Eilish, Olivia Rodrigo and Camilo Cabello at Walmart. I wasn’t expecting much given some of the marketing flash with the colorful vinyl, but I was pleasantly surprised. I’ve visited a couple of semi-local record stores, but I either found my musical knowledge, or the price wanting.

Good Luck … but 100% don’t go analog and cut corners, because great digital is really that good.

I would not do it. If you put the money into your digital end you can achieve the same or better level of sound quality as you would going back into vinyl.

 

I have a digital and analog end with equaly sound quality and character. They have been that way for a few years. You can see my systems under my ID. This can be achieved at different price points. I am in the middle range where parity can be achieved at roughly the same cost.  if lower or higher some addition investment can  be needed in digital to reach the level of vinyl. Looks like you have sufficient funds to get there possibly exceed analog.

Thrift stores...but you'll be looking at a lot of Petula Clark and Mitch Mitchell albums. Not that there is anything wrong with that! 

I should add: I looked at a lot of lots and they have one potential: to keep the good ones an sell the rest on ebay. Unfortunately most of them are just a collection of $1 records because they already picked out the good ones and sold them on ebay for $20 each.

@cantorgale , that is exactly the advice I give to vinyl newbies. Do not start a record collection with one or two records at a time. You wind up playing the new records over and over building a collection of worn records. Start by buying 50 or so records then add a few at a time. It is much harder to wear out 50 records. You build a collection of pristine records. Buying that many records you may be able to strike a deal with a vendor. 

I got out of vinyl in the late 80's and sold / traded everything. Of course it was a mistake. After retirement I decided to get back into vinyl a couple of years ago and would buy a select collection of albums let's say 75 to 100 that I really enjoyed back then. That was 300 albums ago....! Oh well it is a lot of fun searching for that hard to find album I want. I do not stream BTW.

It might depend upon your tastes, right?  If Led Zeppelin is your forte you might not be excited by a complete Montovani collection.  The music should come first, regardless of the medium.

 If it's just having lps for the sake of having lps, be aware that many current (expensive) reissues use digital files due to deterioration in master tapes from earlier years.  So if keeping it all analog, all the time, is important, I wouldn't buy any of these reissues unless they come a site that specifies they don't use digital files, and isn't being cute and misleading about it.  So I would be looking to acquire ups issued before 1990 or so, and expect to receive them in all kinds of condition.

I only buy what I listen to, one by one, ebay and local record store.

I would not buy a lot, what would I do with 80% of it that I don't want?

Midsize university towns have the best used record stores, good prices and selection.

 

 

A fun way to do it would be to go to a major media metropolis like NYC or L.A. and cruise the used record stores. I don't know for sure if they still exist (I'm a former, now long gone Angeleno), but I'd bet they're thriving.

My recommendation would be to build your vinyl collection slowly.  Quality over quantity…I am now 95% streaming but still buy high quality recordings on Vinyl and CD’s sourced from master tapes. 

And yes, the Joseph Audio/Doshi/Aurender/J Sikora room at AXPONA was one of the best sounding room along with WVL/New Audio Frontiers/TW-Acoustics/SteinMusic-Aventurin 6 cart. 

Not sure I'd do it, and I've a decent commitment to vinyl. Shame you sold your family's legacy though. Then again, maybe you need to do this. Cathartic penance and all that!