I have to admit I was warned on an earlier post that it weakens your argument when you feel compelled to relate to another subject. I concede. But, the larger point is that the wine industry does involve individuals certified as "experts" and the audio industry does not. An attempt was made in the 70’s via The Society of Audio Consultants. It was an objective series of questions to see if you could pass Hifi 101. I passed, but it didn’t make me a better listener -- or communicator. The wine industry also extends some degree of credibility and respect for those who are at the pinnacle of subjective interpretation. Audio industry experts get mixed reviews -- to put it kindly.

Scientists and engineers are my heros. Clubbing something over the head and dragging it home for dinner would take alot of time away from my musical enjoyment. I prefer to pluck something off a shelf, toss it in a cart, pay for it with a piece of plastic, stuff it in a grocery bag and drive it home. None of this would have worked without science. You also keep airplanes from falling out of the sky and developed the laser technology to zap the cancer out of my prostate.

But, we may be spending more time tossing the "why’s" back and forth across the net when we could be allocating more time discussing the "whats." So, WHAT just happened? Describe it? How did it make you feel about your system? The musician(s)? The recording? The experience? And, how about the cost vs performance? Was it worth the money? Would you recommend it based on what you heard?

The "why" conversation goes something like this: Did something change? WHY or WHY NOT? Could it be measured? Or, perhaps, the listening session was rejected entirely due to the implausiblity of the premise?

So, the question becomes: if the WHAT is there and the music is more alive and engaging due to a change in the system, then WHY should we agonize over our ability, or inability, to attach the correct scientific theory or measurements to the phenomonon? Why can’t we just celebrate our new audio discovery and share our comments with others, without retribution?

As someone whose work straddles the quantitative and the instinctual I understand and sympathize with the desire to measure & verify and also going with one's gut.

I enjoy digging into the numbers but I also don't get too hung up on them. Hi-Fi for me is all about enjoying the music. My system is a means to the end.

This thread says absolutely NOTHING!!!

I hope this will not be a second post. I think first time failed.  Apology if it is.
 

I also love your analogy and complement you on starting this provocative thread. I agree with your position.  Herewith, is my prospective. 

The education of a sommelier involves not only coursework on wine and tasting theory but practical training comparing types, vintages, and brands to develop an analytical pallet.  Practical training involves tasting standards to develop the pallet-brain database.  The variables that may impact taste, and ultimately developing an analytical pallet, such as storage, age, decanting, temperature, etc. are controlled to the best degree possible during training.

 Audiophile training involves developing an analytical ear-brain database using the absolute sound of live performances.  The standard has many more uncontrolled variables.  I am sure you have sat in different seats in your favorite venue where acoustics were different.  Therefore, the standard is subjective than that used to train a sommelier.  Perhaps, a recording musician has the advantage since this situation controls the variables and if sound is manipulated for purpose, the effect is known.  However, most of us have not had that experience.   That said, a professional audiophile journalist or us hobbyists do use controlled experimental techniques when comparing components to each other.  We can, successfully, as a sommelier, train our connection to discern differences in designs, brands, etc.  We can accurately characterize a component compared to another component under the controlled experimental conditions in real time that we use.  We should not be criticized for doing this.   We fall short and should be criticized when we attempt to adamantly convince others that a component sounds more like absolute sound since this cannot be a well-controlled objective experimental observation. It involves subjective impressions of our individual ear-brain connection of a variable standard (absolute sound) we heard in the past.  We can give our subjective observations on approaching absolute sound, but they should be couched as such. We should rationalize our position with contextual examples.  This is the hard part of our hobby. Finally,  we should not be criticized for presenting counterpoint or rebuttal  if done correctly.  

Use the numbers to get within spitting distance. Then switch to subjective analysis. To what your senses, experiences and emotions tell you.

Finally, I know I've mentioned this a zillion times on this website, but for thirty+ years I made a living in the film industry as a story analyst, telling (okay, gently suggesting to) the bigwigs what screenplays, novels, etc. they ought to throw their money at and produce.

Great & fun analogy! The major difference is that w/ sound systems, we are trying to REPRODUCE an actual live event that we sometimes get to experience so there is an actual point of reference which the equipment attempts to emulate.  In fact, some manufacturers have over the years, demonstrated their stuff in direct comparison to actual live music being played in the room. 

With wine, there is no set standard that winemakers try to reproduce. In fact, flavor profiles often change w/ each vintage.

Music enjoyment takes no training, it moves you & you like it or you don't.  Trying to listen carefully & decide which sound systems and / or equipment comes closest to live music definitely takes some time & experience to grasp & consistently be able to discern. 

I like the wine analogy - but disagree with it from the "Brain Breaking" standpoint.  Obsessing about wine is very different from obsessing about audio equipment and the "quality" of what we are listening to.  If I pick and drink from a bottle of wine that costs $135, I will enjoy it to a certain extent and then will probably never taste it again.  I obsess over audio equipment and music quality because I will expend a lot of energy and downstream time commitment (not the dollar commitment) to get to a point of enjoyment = setting up and improving an audio system and then reaping the benefits.  I then can continue to enjoy varieties of music periodically and repetitively - sometimes with new listeners.  Life is too short not to be listening to great quality music with all its diversity - and to not to take the advantages of the improving technology.  I love helping a young person experiencing his current favorite song in high-res lossless quality over a top quality headphone system that has been EQ'd.  Wine, in my opinion, has not changed very much in top quality end - but it has dramatically improved in consistency of the low to mid range quality.

Everything is vibration. Get over it or get into it. Most fascinating journey I have ever been on.

Gimme That Wine   

By Lambert, Hendricks & Ross Lyrics

My wife got tired a' me runnin 'round, so she tried to keep me home-
Well, she broke my nose and hid my clothes, but I continued to roam.
Then she finally hit my weak spot - threatened to throw my bottle out
Well, from the basement to the rooftop, everybody could hear me shout...

Chorus: Gimme that wine (Unhand that bottle) (3 times)
'Cause I can't cut loose without my juice.
Gotta have hot lucy when I go walkin' y'know.

Well, one day while crossin the avenue, a big car knocked me down.
While I was stretched out tyin' up traffic and crowds came from blocks
around
Now the po-lice were searchin my pockets, before they sent me to the
funeral parlor,
But when one o' those cops took my bottle, Jack, I jumped straight up
and commenced to hollar

Chorus: Gimme that wine (Unhand that bottle) (3 times)
'Cause I can't get well without Muskatel
I only drink for medicinal purposes anyway

Well, now, one real dark and dreary night as I was staggerin' home t'
bed,
Well, a bandit jumped from the shadows and put a blackjack 'side my
head.
That cat took my watch, my ring, my money, And I didn't make a sound,
but when he reached 'n got my bottle, you could hear me for blocks
around

Chorus: Gimme that wine (Unhand that bottle) (3 times)
Beat m' head outta shape, but leave my grape.
Watch, ring and money ain't nothin' but don mess with my wine, JIm.

Well one day my house caught fire while I was layin' down sleepin' off a
nap
An' when I woke up everything was burnin' with a pop an' a crackle an' a
snap.
Now the fireman chopped up my TV set and tore my apartment apart,
But when he raised his axe to my bottle, I screamed with all my heart...

Chorus: Gimme that wine (Unhand that bottle) (3 times)
So I can drink one toast before I roast.
No sense goin' out half baked, Might as well be Alll tore up

You can take all those Hollywood glamor girls- Lana Turner, Rita
Hayworth,
Bridget Bardot, n' Lucille Ball,
and all them chicks 'n line 'em upside the wall
Put a GIGANTIC jug beside 'em, n' tell me to take my choice.
Well, there'd be no doubt which one I chose, the minute I raised my
voice.

Chorus: Gimme that wine (Unhand that bottle) (3 times)
Well those chicks look fine, but I love my wine.
Now some folks like money, some like to dance and dine,
But I'll be happy If you give me that wine

I'm so glad I'm a retired peddler and not a meteorologist.  I could not have predicted the s---storm this has created.  I'm just happy that I don't have an oscillating fan in the room.

We have only crude words with which to communicate most of these experiences.

Those are musical speakers.

The sound is bright.

The amp has punch.

Etc.

Add that lack of finesse with language to a plethora of other variables, and it’s a miracle we can communicate at all.

That said, what experts -- professional or amateur -- can do is nudge.
What do you like?
How would you describe it?
Try this.
Try that.
Consider this measurement.
Consider this subjective review.
Report back and let’s talk some more.
Keep experimenting and keep talking.
Maybe someone gets there faster with this kind of help.

Interesting thread. @jpwarren58 wrote: Have any published their hearing evaluations from a medical provider? Why not?"

I know my hearing has degraded at the upper frequencies due to age (I'm close to 70), But I think my judgment of what sounds like real instruments being played is as good, if not better, than ever due to a couple of things- one, lots of seat time over the years, access and exposure to well put together systems and to a large variety of recorded music (not just the audiophile 'pap'). So, I'm not sure that measure is going to tell you much- especially since much happens in the midrange. Then again, I'm not a YouTuber and don't put myself out there as a guru. (I do write, mainly about historical records and obscurities and have deep interest in the field--though not consumer audio per se). 

I'm a big advocate for people hearing real instruments as a reference and learning to trust their ears. I think people can learn to be astute listeners and at a minimum, can evaluate by comparison, which is an easy way to make judgments. Part of it too is having access to  a wide range of material. 

Your earliest experience with recorded sound shapes your future preferences.  I have no proof but it makes sense. Your hearing is "burned in" so to speak and thereby directs the average person in his audiophile journey. Alas, time does march on and my 64 year old abused ears no longer discern as well, which is another factor that is often ignored. (Do you really think all those rock concerts help your ability to hear the difference in power cables?) 

I have no problem with either camp as most manufactures test their products in some way. And those same manufactures acknowledge and depend on the subjective support of their buyers.

One more thing, we do have audio sommeliers....youtube talking heads and a few print reviewers.  And some retail individuals. Have any published their hearing evaluations from a medical provider? Why not?

We are not chained to our sensory perceptions! Over the past three centuries of the discovery of electricity we have developed theories and measurements to confirm or disprove said theories. Audio is a more recent subset, going back to Lee DeForest's invention of the "amplifying triode" in 1907. That's where it all started! None of today's gear would be possible without measuring instruments and the understanding of electronic theory. The human ear/brain is easily fooled! The anti- measurements crowd is a sad manifestation of the anti- scientific attitude prevalent in modern culture. 

If we are going to compare, please compare fully and look at the "numbers".  How many manufacturers are there of hi-fi and how many vineyards?  Pretty sure the wine dudes are much more prevalent than the hi-fi dudes.  You would think that as much as has been spent in the field of wine and being a much older industry everyone would have arrived at a point of saying here is your red option and here is your white option.  These are the best, not open for discussion.  While sometimes you want a nice bordeaux, other times you just gotta pound some Night Train.  If audio goes like wine, there will be more and more options and flavors and sounds, wonderful.  

@waytoomuchstuff 

your analogy breaks down rather quickly, as several people have noted already. Blind tasting is central to wine judging. Has been always will be. Professional sommeliers, are tested and accredited using this method. Winemaking is totally supported by science and in turn has invested heavily in research. you can get a degree in oenology from prestigious, land-grant universities in the US. The wine industry knows very precisely what makes a good wine and how to measure it. The trick is in producing it, and that in a large part is due to weather and its variability.  of course, like hi-fi, there is the marketing and the wordsmithing, and the romance, which is essential to the enterprise. Without the Romance of wine it becomes just another form of alcohol, which is a known carcinogen, muscle toxin , and intoxicant. We know these things too also courtesy of science. so, I think you will agree there are large and very significant differences between the very large wine industry, and the rather small industry around hi-fi. 

This post resonates with me. As a wine lover, I have had many opportunities to blind taste wines and always enjoy finding that bottle that satisfies the palate at a nominal price. Especially fun when an inexpensive bottle knocks out a very high-end wine (read expensive) at a blind tasting. This is for some the holy grail of wine - finding the overperformer.

Still, when it comes to percentages, the higher the price tag on the wine, the more likely that the wine will be of high quality. Not always true, and especially in the middle tier of pricing there are some clinkers, but when you start to pay higher prices the consistency of the producer and the quality of the product generally increase.

So anyone with a fat wallet can afford to drink amazing wine every night...they just need to pay for it. Most of us are not so fortunate and therefore turn to the value proposition - is this starting to sound familiar.

There is very definitely a risk of confirmation bias, especially when you have spent an inordinate amount of money on a "special" bottle, but the beauty of wine (unlike stereo equipment) is that blind comparison of wine is super easy. Find some bottles, remove the foil, pull the corks and stick them each in paper bags. someone can mix them up and another person can do the same and attach numbers, then the fun begins. One is freed of preconceived expectations and decides which they enjoy most and least. Seldom does everyone agree completely. Sometimes to everyone's surprise (like in Paris 1976) an "underdog" wins. If only blind comparisons were so easy for stereo equipment!

After 30+ years of tasting, I have experienced enough that I don't need to blind taste anymore to decide if I like a wine or not, and if it is worth the price tag to me. I don't care too much about the alcohol, or the phenols or glycerin or residual sugar quantitation of the bottle contents. I care how it tastes. If I like it, and the value proposition works for me I purchase it. if it doesn't tickle me I keep looking.

To close the analogy, there are people who might buy wine based on technical information or price alone, but that approach doesn't work for me. I trust my senses, and leave the technical details for others to marvel over. Same with audio, although I do wish that blind comparison was easier. Until I can build identical side by side high quality systems for direct comparison (never), I will just have to rely on my ears with the helpful advice and experience of others. I fully recognize that this will always come with inherent confirmation bias, but as long as I am enjoying what I hear I can live with that :)

@brianh61     Your wine shop is only trying to be helpful of course by recommending a 'similar' bottle.

Many will agree with me that as a very delicate grape Pinot Noir can present very variably.  As a Burgundy drinker of many bottles experience, I have certainly found this.  Even in a case of 12 bottles, without there being any question of a 'fault' I often find noticeable differences between bottles.  This is not a confirmation bias as all the lables are the same and all the wine was bottled at almost the same moment.  It may be that the differences between the wines you requested of your shop and those recommended were less than those I have encountered in a single case.

A more amusing example of a shop offering something different to what was requested came a long time ago from a schoolfriend of mine who has rather large feet.  He went into a shoeshop and asked for a size 12.  The server came back and said 'sorry we don't have a 12 but we do have a large size 11'.

All I am saying is that I don't know to what extent the differences I hear and taste are differences that truly exist and to what extent they are manufactured in my head, entirely unbenown to me. 

So, how do you make your purchasing decisions, if you don't trust your ears & senses?

@thyname    Thank you for your response.  I will take your comment on my username as a compliment.  I did choose it carefully.

I certainly did NOT say that in my camp everything always sounds the same.  This is not black and white.  It is not a case of you either hear differences or you don't.  You miss my point.  Of course I often hear differences when I make modifications to my system.  I am sure I suffer from confirmation bias too.  Certainly when drinking wine.

We have all found that sometimes our system sounds different on different days, even when warmed up to the same extent, at the same temperature and humidity and listening to the same source material.  Some people say their system sounds different in the dark to with the lights on.  These are all subjective impressions we get, resulting from our mood and all sorts of other transitory personal conditions, many of which we cannot know or identify, still less quantify. 

All I am saying is that I don't know to what extent the differences I hear and taste are differences that truly exist and to what extent they are manufactured in my head, entirely unbenown to me.  There is no way of knowing.  I am afraid this truth is incontrovertible and entirely well known to psychologists.

OP, 

    Great post, Ive been using a similar analogy for a long time, Books and movies also very subjective...

It just seems so subjective due to the human side of things. Perception is not just the sound coming to your ears but your personal experiences affecting how your brain interprets that sound. To me there is no right or wrong. I can't tell you how many times i listened to my system and loved it - came back a day later and was scratching my head on how the sound changed - came back another day later and loved it it again.  

Being an engineer I look at the science side but that is just a part of what I consider.  All choices are made to improve the sound I like. I have had people over that didn't like my setup and that is OK.

I have gone down many of the paths that are discussed here - some produced real improvements for me and some did not. I can't always explain why or why not.

The fun is the journey and everyone is on a different path.

The path I follow is -  read, learn, buy, try - then repeat the process.

Its been a wonderful journey that will never end!

@clearthinker : (what a "relevant" username!):

He suggests that because confirmation bias is not present in wine tasting,

The result of course is rubbish. Confirmation bias exists in all fields

In fact the record shows that confirmation bias is present in wine tasting

legions of published accounts of confirmation bias

they tasted was the real thing - pure confirmation bias.

save to confirm confirmation bias is alive and well

This must have been the single post with most "confirmation bias" mentions. Which is real. But, it is real and true in your camp too, not just for people who report hearing some positive difference, have you ever thought about it? In other words, if you folks think everything sounds the same, they WILL sound the same. Even if you base your "listening tests" by reading stuff in the internet.

In the years I have been reading audio forums, I have come to believe that "confirmation bias" is simply a phrase naysayers throw in your face if you post something making a difference, anything making a difference. I.e. "this cannot possibly work, you are imagining things ---- confirmation bias!". Subjectively, the phrase / phenomenon has lost its true meaning to me. Unfortunately.

I will never spend $100 on a bottle of wine, or an interconnect, so I will never know.

I have and will spend $150 on a bottle of tequila, so go figure...

We have a good friend that is a sommelier and the wine buyer at the place we shop. From the first time we went and said, we are looking for a wine that had a label sorta like this and tasted like that" She walks over to the shelf and says "we don't have that one, but this is almost the same" Spot on along with every other recommendation she gave.

Now, have you ever noticed how some dogs hear every minute sound and react while other dogs don't? It's because every dog hears different than the next, just like humans do. Otherwise Hearing Aids would not be a thing.

I have heard some changes and sometimes not. Some things are just different but hard to say better or worse. One has to adjust to the difference sometimes also as I learned when I bought my Fynes and had never owned concentric driver speakers. They had to break in but so did my ears and brain.

@wsrrsw 

Its I’m coming Elizabeth.  Fred G Sanford. The G is for gorilla. 😂😂

Regrettably @waytoomuchstuff has misdirected himself.  He suggests that because confirmation bias is not present in wine tasting, it cannot be present in listening to music.  His statement is an inductive proof - that is, the proof of a proposition relying upon a different proposition that has not been proved.

The result of course is rubbish.  Confirmation bias exists in all fields - why shouldn't it.

In fact the record shows that confirmation bias is present in wine tasting to a far greater extent than in listening to music.

There have been legions of published accounts of confirmation bias in wine tasting. Almost certainly the most famous case is that of Rudy Kurniawan a young conman from Indonesia who operated as a wine forger of the greatest wines in the world, mainly in the USA between 2002 and 2012.  For 10 years and with probably tens of thousands of bottles he conned all the wine experts, auction houses, collectors and even wine makers with forged first growths imitating the greatest wines of the world.  Some collector experts lost up to $5,000,000 each.  They were all convinced the wines were genuine just because of the labels stuck to the bottles and so believed what they tasted was the real thing - pure confirmation bias.

It is not known how much Kurniawan collected in all from these frauds, carried out in great number over 10 years, but it was certainly in excess of $20,000,000.  He was tried in 2013 and sentenced to 8 years.  The very interesting story can be read in 'In Vino Duplicitas' by Peter Hellman and is being made as a feature film.

So the OP is not making any point, save to confirm confirmation bias is alive and well in all fields.

Pretentious nonsense. Of note, wine tasting is the oldest collegiate sport. 

Why would someone “know what they hear,” so to speak, and then give a good gosh darn about specs, measurements, and other figures printed on a page?  
Why would someone in this position care if some other person attempted to delegitimize and invalidate what they know good and well they’re actually hearing in human life?

I wouldn’t. If someone wants to enjoy music via measurements on a page instead of with their ears, brains, heart and soul, that’s their prerogative, but their protestations against my personal experience wouldn’t amount to a hill of beans in my world. 

If you are using the wine analogy, you should read up on The Judgment of Paris tasting in 1976.

[T]he greatest underdog tale in wine history was about to unfold. Californian wines scored big with the judges and won in both the red and white categories, beating legendary chateaux and domaines from Bordeaux and Burgundy.

Sometimes the underdog can taste better... sommeliers can be taken aback. Similarly, a "lesser brand" may sometimes sound better in a system. Trust your ears, not the hype...

Wine and HiFi are indeed very similar. Drink and listen to what you like, what someone else measures or consumes makes no difference to what you may actually like.

For some reason, Investigating if ultrasound is harming LPs, has brought me back up here.

Wondering Wednesday.

@curiousjim ’I’m coining Loretta.”

@waytoomuchstuff You wax poetic. So thanks.

I’ve posted this quote before but it seems appropriate. ‘There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that ’my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.’ Issac Asimov

The internet has let so many pontificate and prattle as if they were experts. Not using our real names and faces doesn’t help. Most here are kind and want to help. And then there are the righteous bomb throwers (And if someone cuts up and does it well that’s laudable too). But all and all this joint rocks.

Making sausage isn’t pretty and the internet is sausage.

@whart There are certifications for Sommeliers, through the Court of Master Sommeliers or CMS, Intro, Certified, Advanced, Master. Plenty of somms are not certified in any way. I've done through Certified and took the Advanced exam, just passing tasting, though I've never been a somm.

Red Foxx used to mix Champaign and Ripple.  He called it Champipple. I bet that didn’t make him a wine expert or a lover of hifi.

I thought sommeliers had formal training. And there were different levels for different certifications. They learn about growing, dirt, cultivation, weather, etc. as influences in the taste, plus have experience in tasting and distinguishing. 

I don't drink anymore but would trust a sommelier to make recommendations from their cellar for the table. 

I think in audio, there really are no qualifications are there? Someone can have engineering experience, which is good, but that doesn't necessarily translate to knowing what gear sounds like or even what to listen for. Many of my guests over the years have been working musicians. They usually comment that they have never heard anything comparable to the kind of playback a high end system can deliver-probably because they simply haven't been exposed to much of the stuff we take for granted. I enjoy their reactions-- not to the "audiophile spectacular" stuff, but to records they know--like, wow, I never heard the kick drum that clearly- or those horn parts are amazing. 

I'll never be an audio sommelier. But, that isn't terribly important to me at this stage of my life. As to the fruit of the vine, enjoy. We used to spend a lot of time in Beaune, France. And you realize why that juice is so expensive. The plots of land on which the grapes are grown are small, there's not a huge output each year. We had a favorite restaurant just outside of town that we used to frequent. It was a hang for the vineyard people. They had a pretty crazy cellar. Been years....

@lwin :

I do get frustrated by those who insult others on this forum. If a power cord ,fuse etc. makes a positive difference in your system and you want to share your experience with others you shouldn’t be subjected to ridicule. I have gotten some great information on this and other forums.
 I trust my ears and palate but I appreciate the opinions of others. We are all different to some extent thank goodness or the the world be a really boring place.

Great post. Well said ☝️

The difference in taste is easily explained by science. Taste is controlled by the taste buds on your tung. The number of taste buds carry greatly from person to person. This is why some can handle spice some can’t, it’s why some say it’s to sweet others just right. As far as what a person can and can’t hear is not as easily explained but everyone has different hearing levels and what you hear is not what I hear. I think in a forum like this one more than half the bias critics are jealous of envious that they don’t have the means to spend f u money on a piece of stereo equipment. This leads to their argument that a $1000 amp sounds as good as a $20,000 amp. Don’t get me wrong that quality has a definitive price tag it does not but it does cost more to use the best material over run of the mill parts.

No matter what the topic, it always comes down to a matter of trust as a result of credibility. Some have it and some do not. Trust is earned, not owned. Lots of shysters out there. Also lots of credible people worth trusting. You decide who is who.

Great analogy OP. 

Baylinor, I drink way more wine than beer, but beer has become as complex and interesting as wine and audio.  

As others have stated, a somm must be able to identify a wine in detail, blind, to get certified, and there are different levels. I have a friend that is a top level somm and he did it just for fun. 

For us laypersons, the rules are simple.

1. If you like the wine, it is good. No matter what anyone else says.

2. If you like the sound of your component/rig, see rule #1. 

No certification required.

The best resource is an honest, brick and mortar audio dealer but from what I hear from y'all is these are getting harder to find. 

I follow the audiophile path because I love and appreciate every nano-nano-nano of improvement (cue Robin Williams). This isn't a quantitative, scientific pursuit for me. I don't agonize over the numbers. I don't care about the test results. I just want the stuff coming out of my audio system to get reasonably close to what I subjectively hear from musical instruments, the human voice and other audio sources in real life.

In wine there are accepted subjective standards developed over many years. And there are many good wines although good ones differ in taste and their positive qualities. What's different here from audio, at least given the current state of the art?

I drink beer.

There are certainly parallels in wine and hifi both are a blend of art and science and both are sensory experiences. Both have criteria about them that are both objective and subjective. I will say this though deductive blind tasting can make you a better taster for sure but I'm not sure listening makes you a better listener without some training. Nice post Waytoomuchstuff!

Every price has story behind it.

One price reflects the marketing trick, the other price would reflect the real process.

For example, building SET tube amp is light-to moderate task compared to building high-powered solid state amp. 

One would cost a fortune while the other will reflect the real process.

I don't think there is any brain breaking.  These debates are more for fun and sport, no one pretends they will change anyone's beliefs...we all know how to best evaluate gear for ourselves, though hopefully we learn as we go...

@carlsbad 

Why not? It's entertaining. 

The one thing a man should be is the master of himself. 

Do a lot of listening and quaffing. Trust your ears and palate. Let them develop. Do what you can to improve both what you listen to and quaff, but don't go broke or too nuts over it.

Being a wine geek and an audiophile I find your analogy thought provoking. I think that there are some major differences that account for the acrimony. Unless we personally made the wine outside of what we paid for it, we have no skin in the game . We audiophiles usually put together our systems so we not only are personally invested ,we are also financially. If a bottle of wine I pour isn’t up to snuff I can shrug it off by saying, I didn’t make the wine. Yes ,I may have selected it but unlike a stereo system it is just one bottle.

I haven’t purchased a wine publication in years. I trust my senses because there is more to wine than just taste. I don’t take it personal if someone doesn’t like a wine I pour. We all have our own preferences. My wife loves beets, I can’t stand them.

I am guilty of reading the two main audio magazines and if they have an opinion about a record, piece of gear etc. that is the opposite of mine I chalk it up to each their own. 
 I do get frustrated by those who insult others on this forum. If a power cord ,fuse etc. makes a positive difference in your system and you want to share your experience with others you shouldn’t be subjected to ridicule. I have gotten some great information on this and other forums.
 I trust my ears and palate but I appreciate the opinions of others. We are all different to some extent thank goodness or the the world be a really boring place.