Audio Research Reference 160.
???What's The LEAST Expensive "End Game"Amplifier You've Ever Heard???
Pretty simple question..
While I’m sure the "No Such Thing" crowd will make sure they represent,I’m not interested in their rhetoric..
I am however,most interested to hear from those who have heard integrated amplifiers they could get off the merry go round with,ESPECIALLY if it was on the more budget end of cost..For myself it would have to be the Sugden A21SE but that was 2 years ago,before the cost climbed to $4000.00......
Thanks for participating..
If you can get your hands on one of the 100 limited-production VPI 2990D Integrated Amps, go for it!!! |
tave5, I agree, the old Nimis is a terrific sounding tube amp--dense sounding but still lively and clear. It is a lot of fun to listen to that amp. There current Roma 96 amps, which run EL34s also sound very good and remain a screaming bargain. They use to make a tiny 6L6 amp that I liked a lot too. My only concern with the smaller Synthesis amps is heat build up under the chassis--they need to be well ventilated to reduce heat; I've seen a few of their amps that needed service because certain components inside the chassis got cooked. As I mentioned above, I own two tube amps that are very expensive. One costs close to six figures, the other one is probably worth about $45k. While I don't think any Synthesis amp beats them out, I would not be that upset if I had to replace them with a Synthesis A40--this amp is worthy of any system needing only 40 watts at peak. |
One that comes to mind if you like tubes is the EL84 Integrated that Synthesis Audio in Italy makes. I have too much gear and a number of Amps costing between 8-10k but everytime I put either the older version Nimis EL84 in or the new one he came out with my first thoughts were why do I pay what I pay for Amps when this thing is this good! Also, very hard to go wrong with a well made EL84 Integrated:) |
@lewkor +1 I am also very happy with my Simaudio Moon 340i. I recommend it with one caveat: the volume control is not fine enough for my taste when using a fixed 2.0V source. The problem goes away when I use the 340i in conjunction with a DAC that has its own volume control. |
+1 on the Synthesis integrated amps, the A40 or A100. I've had a ton of amps, both integrateds and separates, and the Synthesis has ended my in interest in finding anything "better." The onboard DAC is also very capable, although I will admit that my Lampizator Horizon is on another level, as it should be given the discrepancy in price. Together, they are just incredible.
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If you're into tubes, Raven Audio makes one hellava great sounding integrated amp... Check out the Night Hawk: https://ravenaudio.com/product/nighthawk-mk3-tube-amplifier/ |
The XA-25 is an astonishing sounding amp ("veiled and rolled off highs with wooly bass" are absolutely NOT part of the XA-25 sound in my experience) and I’ve enjoyed mine tremendously for a few years now. It’s a keeper, as is my Had Firebottle HO (high output...ha...) SEP...that thing cost me about 1100 bucks and it was only a few months old (maybe 5 years ago). I swap between the two amps as my mood dictates and use very efficient horn speakers, so there’s that. Had and Pass make integrated amps from these two designs which are also well regarded. |
An integrated wouldn’t be my “end-game” amp. Get a non-functional McCormack DNA 0.5 for around 500 bucks and send it to SMcAudio and have them rebuild it for you. Absolute SOTA amp on the relative cheap, and then just buy the preamp flavor of your choice to go with it. I use an LTA MZ2 tube pre (with upgraded LPS), but that’s me. |
This thread does a disservice to the uninitiated by recommending SET and tube amps providing less than 10 watts of power without knowing what kind of speakers are being powered. If you're new to audio please do not just go out and buy an amp based on a recommendation here without considering system synergy and speaker sensitivity. For example, I once purchased a Pass Labs XA25 that someone else recommended in this thread and with my 95db sensitivity speakers the XA25 sounded veiled with rolled off highs and loose uncontrolled wooly bass . Sure it was warm and offered a tonally denser midrange but I hated everything else about it compared to the other amps in my stable. I couldn't sell that thing fast enough. |
When I bought my Simaudio 340i, I was auditioning it against the Bryston B135 cubed and Cronus Magnum III. I picked it because it's really musical, has great current capability resulting in excellent woofer control. A really neutral, very capable amplifier section. My analog section consists of the 340i phono stage being fed by a Graham Slee MC amplifier connected to a Mofi Ultradeck/AT-OC9SH cartridge. The digital side is a Chord Qutest feeding the single ended input of the 340i. At this point there are many things I'll upgrade, like cables etc., before considering replacing the 340i. |
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The Pass Labs XA25 is one of the most 'transparent' amps and a reference for many reviewers. Audiophiliac, Stereophile, Absolute Sound. I have one paired to Harbeth 30.2 40th and it is a match made in heaven. |
I love my Arion Audio S500. Shoebox size digital switching amp designed and built by Mike Kallelis. 500 watts per channel, super clean, neutral sound. Plus, it weighs only about 22 pounds! Price should be under $3000. A real bargain, and I can't see myself ever replacing it in an attempt to upgrade. If it ain't broken...
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I wouldn't (at this point in my journey) choose and integrated amplifier for myself, I prefer a separate preamp and amplifiers; specifically a tube preamp with both tube and SS amplifiers.....at least in my main system. The Hegel H590 (now H600) would be that choice if I had to choose. An acquaintance in my audio group owns one I get to hear on occasion, and it really is a wonderful piece of gear. I might even be able to live with the built in DAC, if not it's streamer If I was putting together a reasonably priced system for a garage or office, I could absolutely live with a Heaven 11 Billie Amp MKII. At $2,000 it's an absolute steal, and wonderful integrated. It appears the Billie MKII is sold out, and there is an upcoming Billie MKIII coming out soon which will be modular. You can even choose your output engine, Hypex or ICEPower.....will be following that release later this year |
I agree with you @danager! Those willing to DIY can bypass the waiting list and build their own with a printed circuit board and instructions from Steve Deckert for only $45. https://www.decware.com/newsite/SE84CDIY.htm the whole project cost me a bit under $600 a few years ago. |
Depending on your speakers a true end game amplifier that you wouldn't want or need to ever upgrade is the SE84UFO25 by Decware. Two of the most musical watts out there. The Decware owner actually made the first amp for himself as a state of the art SET amplifier. It turned out so good that he offered at over three times the cost of the SE84UFO and now the Decware backlog is an over three year wait time. It's a niche product for people with speakers in the 100DB sensitivity range but is truly a piece of equipment that you can inexpensively tube roll and tune for the specific sound characteristic you desire. |
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This is one of best threads I have seen in my limited time in this forum. It’s actually helpful! There generally are poor resources for buying used equipment to set up a really good system. You are really on your own if you are new to this and not able to spend unlimited amounts. Everything seems to be available used and it’s not junk. I would love it if the cognoscenti would regularly scan US Audio Mart and throw out system recommendations based on what’s out there. That would be so helpful! |
@jl35 agree on the Gato Amp 150. Have it and love it. Though I would love if a DAC was also included. @akg_ca agree. My own recommendation would be much cheaper than all here - Vincent Audio SV200. A small/petite hybrid amp. Its size and power ratings do not represent what it can do. It runs 3 of my massive speakers superbly- Qualio IQ, Axxess L3 and Omega Junior 8 XRS. |
Sugden makes good products. For me, it was Accuphase E-650 that pretty much ended my desire to consider any other brands out there. The synergy with your speakers is critical when selecting an Integrated. I have tried other Integrated’s costing 3 or 4 times more but they weren’t a good match. So, IMHO cost of an equipment is a secondary consideration. |