I'm supposed to listen to every single instrument within a mixture of instruments. And somehow evaluate every aspect of what I'm listening to and somehow all this is critical listening.
This is supposed to bring enjoyment?
I'm just listening for the Quality of what I'm listening to with all the instruments playing and how good they sound hopefully.
And I'm tired of answering that I'm not a robot all the time. That's being critical.
Individuals like me are perfect to answer this type of question because I'm an analytical listener by nature. Even when I listen for enjoyment, I still listen critically without even intending to. I'm listening deep into the music but I'm not trying to listen to every single note.
For instance, when listening to vocal, I listen deeply into the naturalness, the richness of the vocal. The slightest shift of pitch and tone and volume in each singing word. The transparency, the smoothness. The angelic voice. It's incredible.
The term "critical listening" means different things to different people. For me it just means at that time, listening is the primary thing I am doing. I'm not talking on the phone, reading a book, watching the TV, doing chores, etc. Just listening. I don't have to be "critical" about what I'm hearing, nor do I have to hear every small detail. But I am intent on connecting with the music.
Critical listening means optimizing the setup and listening closely to what the system is doing. I use it when evaluating changes. Otherwise, I just turn it on and listen more casually to the music.
If critical listening used as a tool makes my system better, then yes, it does bring some enjoyment.
Listening critically also gets easier with time / experience for a few reasons. It takes time to build the experience of what a realistic presentation sounds like - tonally, spatially, and effortlessly. And the better one’s source material, room, system, and hearing (or at least awareness of their personal hearing capabilities) are, the easier it is to understand the performance of any of the variables listed so that we may be able to critique what is contributing to what, or what is falling short.
Yes, it can be truly exhausting at times if you overdo it, but it’s a journey, not a destination, and one that, should you choose to accept its mission, you should traverse at your own pace. The key to success lies in motivation and the means to improve the variables for further fulfillment / enjoyment. Once either of those start to wane, it’s time to take a step back and stop taking it so seriously, and just try to enjoy the music. If you can’t do that, you’ll at least either have the motivation to find the variable that needs improvement so you can find more fulfillment, or you just need a time out from listening to music for a while.
Your question is surprising, given how many times I’ve seen you on the forum. You express a common misconception about critical listening. It’s not about habitually listening in a way that is always dissecting every single instrument or constantly evaluating every sonic aspect. That would indeed be exhausting and detract from enjoyment.
Critical listening is best understood as "listening with a specific, often temporary, goal in mind for system improvement." Think of it like this:
Imagine your audio system is a garage. You don't reorganize it all the time; you do it when you need to. At the beginning; when you've added a lot more stuff to it; when you've changed things around in it or have different priorities. You don't reorganize a garage most of the time. You just use it for other purposes.
Same with an audio system: sometimes, you need to "critically listen" to set it up or re-organize it. You might focus on a particular section (e.g., the bass response), identify what’s out of place (e.g., boomy bass), and make adjustments (e.g., move the subwoofer). This is a focused task with an end goal: a better-organized garage.
Once your "garage" (your audio system) is optimized to your satisfaction – perhaps the bass is now tight and well-defined, or the vocals are clear and present – you don’t need to keep "re-organizing" it. You simply enjoy the improved space.
Who does critical listening? Well, anyone seeking to improve their audio experience. This could be audiophiles, audio engineers, or even casual listeners who notice something isn’t quite right and want to fix it.
Does it bring enjoyment? Some enjoy the process of analysis. Others -- it sounds like you -- find thinking analytically to be irritating or difficult and not pleasurable at all. To each their own. But in either case the *outcome* is a more satisfying listening experience. Once you’ve addressed the issues, you simply relax and enjoy the music without your brain nagging you about imperfections. It’s about getting to a point where the "quality of what you’re listening to" sounds good enough so you can stop being critical and just appreciate the music.
majority of folks I have noticed audition gear and trade alot to other brands chasing that nirvana, I think its more hobby to them than to enjoy and listen. I bought what I consider the best and I like to sit down and listen to the most accurate sound I can, imagine want imaging to be the best it can and I want voices and instruments to be as natural as possible, I look for resolution, dynamics and control
Critical listening is necessary if one is to progress, also necessary to have a knowledge base/listening encyclopedia in order to obtain a reference or references as a goal. I spent far larger percentage of listening time in critical listening mode to my systems and others in early years, decades. Over time as I've come closer to my goals, far less time spent in this mode, mostly I admire the sound if I do go into this mode.
Critical listening mode shouldn't always be seen in a negative light, it is a necessary tool in the audiophile tool bag.
Critical listening means optimizing the setup and listening closely to what the system is doing.
The MORE effective critical listening must happen in more understanding of audio sounds because our ears trick us. All audio systems (incl. million $ systems) sound/behave veiled & distorted like speakers below.
Maybe it’s like going to a museum and looking at a painting done by a master. For many just visually looking at it, it achieves lots of enjoyment. And then for others, they understand all the work related to color choices, brushing techniques, contrasting, depth perception - they put a lot of thought in looking at the Picture because they understand what it’s all about. Most mere mortals have no clue.
Many of us mere mortals may wish we better understood all that goes into the picture which no doubt would allow a better appreciation for all it took to achieve it.
There are some remarkable paintings in this world and I wish I would’ve taken some art classes in college.
There are different types of "critical listening" for different purposes. In audiophile land, I think it is often meant to describe listening for shortcomings in the presentation of a system or given component. But it can also involve listening to compare different pressings of the same record, to evaluate their respective merits. In musicology, there are also different types of critical listening- one might be to analyze motifs or how it fits into the overall body of that composer's work, its influences, historical context, etc. Forensic musicology often involves picking out allegedly infringing phrases or elements and finding historical precedent for their common usage as building blocks by other authors. I think you need to provide context to afford more meaning to the term. To me, I most often associate it in home audio reproduction with listening to where a system or component reveals its shortcomings.
Correct, critical doesn't necessarily involve judgement. I mentioned in another thread how in recent years more focus on qualities of the recording itself. Producers/engineers play a major role in bringing us these works of arts, I've learned to turn off the judgment cap, just let the recording come to me, much more satisfying listening sessions with this. You still the warts, they become curiosities rather than irritants.
I define critical listening as focusing only on the music-maybe not the precisely correct meaning. Lots of people-my daughters for example-always have music on, but its in the background, while they are doing other things. I bought them both a Morel Biggie to replace Alexa and they consider it high end.
When I listen critically, I try to devote at least an hour and try to clear my mind (with my mind, not a lot of deep thoughts to get out of the way). I'll admit that I enjoy the music, but also enjoy judging how its reproduced both in terms of the engineering, and by my equipment. For me, the performance of the gear is an integral part of the experience. I realize I could be voted off Audiophile Island for that damning admission.
Interesting question! After some thought I think I have something worthy to add here... I think there are different types of "listening".
One type is analytical. This is where the listener/audiophile is actively searching for different qualities being reproduced by their system. Is the bass right? Is there enough detail? Are the highs too strident? How's the soundstage? All these things and more are being actively examined for satisfactory performance. Changes, if necessary, are made. Equipment purchased/swapped out. Speakers moved. Room treatments installed, etc. This is where I think many audiophile get trapped and don't get to move onto the next kind of listening.
This second type of listening is the "appreciation" kind. This is where the listener is not listening to the performance of their system but to the performance of the artists. They are listening to become involved in the music. Be it Vivaldi or Floyd, Fusion or Baroque, they are allowing their minds to delve into the art and relish the emotions being generated.
Is one more important than the other? I would suggest that the former, once satisfied, helps promote the ease into which the listener can fall into the latter. That said, it's not a straightline progression. After some time of appreciating, the analytical might creep back in when some recording or other somehow doesn't satisfy as it might. Then the mind asks "Why?" and we start the cycle again.
It might be analagous to the way an artist changes the way they perform a particular piece. Maybe they do another arrangement or place different emphasis on different notes or passages. Conductors have different interpretations of orchestral pieces. And once satisfied, they perform their art in the way that suits them... Until next time they feel something isn't quite right and the mind asks "Why?".
Thus it's my belief that Critical Listening is not just a reviewing tool for analysis but can also be the means that keeps an artist's work in flux as well.
Or maybe another aspect of critical listening is criticizing Rachmaninoff for use of French horns when he should be using trumpets for a passage that clearly needs a emphasized crescendo. And at times limiting use of violins in the background.
And sometimes the tympany is just too overwhelming don’t you think
Yeah...those damn tympany players need to be reigned in...the good news for me is there are close to zero of them in my normal listening...small jazz combos, shoe gaze banjo, mope metal, mope mope, no mope, etc.
Nice comment. I guess when you reach a point your completely confident with your system you become less critical of it and just sit back and appreciate what you’re listening to knowing can’t get too much better, ie after allowing for recording quality which is always a wildcard.
I love your System with all the audio research and cj vintage stuff. smooth sounding I’m sure very nice for classical. Vintage stuff can be quite nice.
Critical listening is what reviewers do when a component is being evaluated. It involves knowing specific reference recordings, but it also requires some familiarity with acoustic instruments (for reviewers). A reviewer has to know how close to the ’real thing’ a component comes. And it is usually acoustic because the harmonics of such instruments are assumed to be known to most people. And that’s the problem.
A very large cross-section of people - nowadays - listen to mostly electronic music and otherwise "processed" music, something with no analogue in real life. Additionally, it seems that the last two (American) generations of students have had to take very little training in music (classes/band practice, you name it), and consequently, when people get into audio with no knowledge of how instruments sound, it is hard for them to do any ’critical listening.’ What are they basing their assessment on? A Hammond B-52?? One could base an assessment on that, but only if other instruments are also involved so that one can arrive at the best conclusion as to the traits of the component under review.
And while it doesn’t have to be acoustic, people are more familiar with say, a guitar than they are a synthesizer of whatever other electronic instruments there are.
So, critical listening is how you determine the traits of a component. Does it only play loud, or can it play soft, softer and softest and conversely loud, louder, loudest? Do you notice whether or not it is tonally right or is it ’off’ a bit? Does it have dynamics only in the upper midrange, or does it have dynamic expansion in all the other frequencies as well?
After weeks of carefully listening while setting up my new speakers, (critical listening) Now I spend most of the time reading while I listen. Sometimes, I’ll listen with my eyes closed and try to pick out locations of voices and instruments, so I guess that’s critical listening. But as an example, when the Eagles Hell Freezes Over album came out I started listening to it and stopped dead when California started. I cranked up the volume and started the song again. I listened to it 4-5 times taking in every nuance of the song before I listened to the rest of the album.
the concept of doing ’critical listening’ is simply listening with some sort of specific discovery in mind. as opposed to listening just to listen and enjoy the music, enjoy the musical journey, and having your mind free of the need to discover something. this to me brings the highest level of musical experience from my system.
some of this comes down to semantics. if you are comparing performances, or maybe drum solos, or vocalists, in some ways that is critical listening. OTOH my viewpoint is that is more non critical listening in an audiophile sense.
OTOH if you are listening for some aspect of the sound, or how gear performs, or how the room sounds, those type objectives push it to critical listening. and this type listening can become fatiguing and is less pleasurable. not to say that i don’t still enjoy intense critical listening. it can be fun especially if i get a question answered about something significant. so it’s useful to know how to do that too.
while listening our minds are going to wander and all sorts of musical or sonic things might come to mind. but my viewpoint is that if we start our session without an agenda, and just let the music happen, that is non critical listening and the place i want to be most of the time. and non critical listening ends up revealing the most truth about my system since my mind is the most open to what the music is really doing.
I thankfully don't engage in audiophile nonsense such as "critical" listening. that is such BS it is funny. As if we were in the studio when the recording was taking place. the self fellation that occurs in these circles is comical
Suppose I want to compare the sound of the same radio program via streamer/DAC vs. broadcast (FM tuner). I simply switch between input X and input Y on the preamp. That's an example of critical listening, and it's neither nonsense nor self-flattery. Or I want to compare the sound of preamp A vs. preamp B into the same amp (one on balanced, the other on RCA). Just switch between the two inputs by pushing button on front panel of amp. That's another example of critical listening, and a useful one. The list of potential listening tests is pretty much limitless, but of course, once satisfied, we lean back and enjoy until some other aspect of the system warrants our critical attention.
To me critical listening is focusing on things like sound staging, pinpoint image location, and all the other esoteric things that a typical audiophile cares about. Casual listening is not focusing on that but more so just enjoying the music.
Critical listening is done in order to attempt to get the sound of your system to sound as good as possible to your ears. Once you're done with the room soundproofing and acoustic treatments, then come the equipment upgrades and only then you finalize it with subtle sound changes with various cables, fuses and isolation products. Each one of those changes will easily be noticeable and that's when critical listening is absolutely necessary. The hope is that eventually you never need any more critical listening. Audio nirvana. Am I there? No. Am I close? Definitely. It's a journey, just like the spiritual one.
@mapman+1 This is more what critical listening means for me, critical listening is listening with great intention, again, critical doesn't mean judgement. On the other hand, analytical listening mode is intentionally judgemental, you are listening specifically for qualities of sound rather than sound quality. Critical listening should bring about appreciation for sound quality, I go into virtually every listening session with great intention for appreciation of sound quality, I donj't listen to my main system casually. Now sometimes during these critical listening sessions I may hear something in certain recordings that is salient to the point it brings about an intention to analyze.
After decades of practice/experience I'm always aware of the listening mode I'm in. Critical mode is my favorite mode, again, this is not a judgemental mode. At this point in my audio journey I'm never in pure music appreciation mode when I listen to my audiophile system. Per the above I'm mostly in critical listening mode, this is intentionally an appreciation for both the sound quality of my system and the performance of the musicians. And this is also necessarily an appreciation for the engineering/production values of the recording, something that seems to be completely forgotten in this discussion. The kind of appreciation I'm speaking of here is non judgmental so that recordings with flaws can be enjoyable.
Bottom line, I'd find this entire endeavor intolerable if I couldn't listen with great intent and non judgment to the musical performance, sound quality of both my system and the recording, perfection rarely if ever exists, flaws are ever existent I submit the entire reason I got into this was to have appreciation of all three of these aspects of listening to recordings on an audiophile system. If I'm only seeking musical enjoyment I can find that easily enough with relatively low end systems such as in my cars or work system, with these systems I care little about system and recording sound quality. My take is if you're not listening to your system critically, something in the system isn't aligned with your sound preferences and/or pales in comparison to some reference system you heard or have illusions about.
Why are so many caught up in this insecure narrative that if you critically listen to music your not enjoying it. Do these people "critically" hear themselves lmao. Ok to demonstrate the ironic doofury it takes of such claims, the following must be true of these music purists. They still own a black and white TV, because obviously you wouldn't want to let an awesome modern picture distract you from enjoying your movie, or wait, they still use a flip phone because I mean who wants to hear the person on the other line with all the noise canceling technology to take away from the conversation 🤣, or how about those photos that captures an entire landscape as if you were a professional photographer, I mean how distracting from the enjoyment of experiencing a blurry photo. Why people bother to make this an issue reminds me of a bunch of grandma's in a knitting convention complaining about kids these days. Seriously everyone accepts and oodles over technology in every other field but someone made half the people so insecure about the word audiophile and what that must say about them, almost as if they are afraid it would be followed by "hipster". Anyways hope this helps put things in perspective for the self inflicted victim crowd.
@bolong...*G* Probably one of the ’enhancements’ one can apply that costs the least but shifts the ’eq’ within one’s head without redlining a credit card, tensing up over the potential damage of a shipped used component, or the cost of the ’X v Y’ of a new to you device....
I can admit to not having the budget to amuse self with esoterica; my ears absolutely require the aids I insert into my canals every AM...
If I’ve spent the equivalent of a Mac anything into that pursuit, it’s down to having my daily routines achieve some sort of bliss over hearing the bird song of that finch trying his best to find a mate. I missed that way too long over just having to fill the gaps of what was missed listening to a LP or a streamcast....
"Heaven is in your mind." If if only on a conceptual level, since an afterlife seems like a wish while whistling when walking pass the graveyards.
Does your $100K setup sound better than my $2K pile of various ’n sundry?
Oh, perhaps. Since it’s unlikely neither of us will have to enjoy/tolerate each others’ collection, it hardly matters in the long run.
Run what you’ve brung, and enjoy....or not.
I’ve better things to do than lose sleep over it....
It's just OCD man, pure and simple. Enjoy what you like and forget the rest.
Right, and don't think critically about anything else -- diet, medical care, car purchases, choice of friends, or anything being done in society. That's all "OCD," too. Just melt into a puddle of knownothingism and ride the wave of blissful ignorance.
I thankfully don't engage in audiophile nonsense such as "critical" listening. that is such BS it is funny. As if we were in the studio when the recording was taking place. the self fellation that occurs in these circles is comical
Yeah, we get it. You are so much better than all the "audiophiles" you have to share the forum with. Being superior, how do you cope with all the minions? Must be pretty tough.
Critical listening is when you listen after you put the distractions away–the phone, the laptop, the book, the Stereophile mag, the rollups, and the whiskey.
Thanks for your nice words. I got the Loki more out of curiosity than need. When hooked to my various digital sources, I quickly realized I hardly ever felt the need to use it as each has reached a quality of sound to my ears that really doesn't need equalizing. Except for some old poorly recorded CDs which I simply don't listen to anymore anyway. And for poorly mastered vinyl, I play them on my second TT hooked up to the Parks Audio Waxwing phono pre and the equalizing is plenty sufficient. In the end, I found the perfect use for the Loki, between my TV and blue ray player (all running through the main system), as it's lower sound quality can really benefit from the Loki. Now I can enjoy DVD concerts and you tube concerts without much of a drop in sound quality. And yes, diffusers in my room were badly needed. The ones at first reflection points made a huge leap in clarity and extending the soundstage.
This is hard to define, as everyone has different goals.
For me, critical listening has a few steps.
1. How quiet the soft passages are the dark space
2. How different the soft from loud parts are, can a cymbal crash make me jump or surprise me?
3. Does each instrument have it's own space? Is it wide or narrow, are they crashed together or have their own space? Can I tell the difference between a bass drum and bass guitar?
4. Decay, does a bass drum roll off, does a cymbal crash linger?
5. Vocals, are they up front? present, "on stage" so to speak.
6. Balance, is everything in balance? Does anything take over or is it smooth from bottom to top?
@emergingsoul Thank you for the compliment regarding my system!
True it's mostly vintage with the exception of the digital front end however, it continues to please me quite thoroughly!
I've listened to newer gear of course but aside from a new cartridge or the Bluesound/Border Patrol combo, I haven't been compelled enough to invest in newer equipment.
For me critical listening is simply paying attention to the music and the recording quality with eyes closed and not doing anything else, just enjoying the music with no other distractions.
we have a large degree of semantic disagreement on this thread.
my viewpoint.....
critical listening = listening with some sort of discovery in mind.
non-critical listening = focused listening without distractions.
i think the cautionary aspect of being in a critical listening headspace is simply that our conscious mind is basically distracted by the processing going on, and the sensory reaction to the music is restricted. and expectation bias is very real.
so it’s important to understand the difference for finding the highest truth about our systems.
i know for myself personally i find the deepest most meaningful feedback about where my system is from non-critical listening.....where i am just listening without any specific agenda. it’s when the full wonder of the music seems to happen. where the music is driving my mind, not any mental baggage i’ve brought to the session.
how is the music making me feel?
sometimes what can start as critical listening evolves into non critical listening as i get caught up in the music, but other times hard to free up my mind. better to start away from those agendas. if i get a new piece of gear i’m curious about it might take a few days or a week to escape the gear focus. but i know it’s important to get there.
I think non-critical listening is what most people do with blue tooth speakers on the patio, Spotify on the soundbar while they are cleaning, and listening to music in the car. Although that last one can be both critical and high quality, but not in most cases.
It is Your Listening Space, Your System, Your Choices that Forms the End Sound.
If you want to put yourself in the Listening Space Power On the System and Assess the End Sound being Produced with the focus from yourself on fault finding, then if that is your thing carry on.
If you want to put yourself in the Listening Space Power On the System and Assess the End Sound being Produced with the focus from yourself on being grateful for the Opportunity to experience Enjoyed Music, as a encounter with music well known to you or new, then if that is your thing carry on.
If you want to put yourself in the Listening Space Power On the System and Assess the End Sound being Produced with the focus from yourself on being something in between the above, then if that is your thing carry on.
Sound created through a Audio System can have a Structure, Shaping, and Form, all able to be perceived to the point of being believable. All this to be discovered within the Sound is the result of how the recorded data is able to be extracted, then data being sent, then data being converted and amplified, then the amplified being divided to become a energy of differing frequencies merged within a Space that is detected to the system user as sound.
If one owns a 'anything', there are certain 'anything's', that the capabilities of the 'anything' will be investigated. Sometimes the discovery might not be as expected, but is quickly moved on from and become a non issue.
With Audio Equipment, the moved on from quickly to become a non issue is a real struggle for many many people.
There is restlessness and underlying discontent, there is difficulty being accepting as a result of not being thoroughly satisfied and the sensing the experiencing chosen audio equipment's end sound has not delivered to a particular standard. Across many many people such baggage carried causes various levels of mental unease, or alternatively an unyielding Search for the next Band Aid to cover the Gaping Wound.
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