Is there any problem with this if the cables are in the same ballpark in quality (or price)? Do cables have such different sound signatures that things get muddied or cancelled out?
Forgive my ignorance. This is my first venture into the topic. I'm talking about under $100 gear for a meter length..
@m669326 I have to blame a close friend who loaned me a TOTL pair of interconnects once 20+ years ago, they were $100 more cost (used/demo) than the special edition CD player I had at the time. Yes, more $ than the CD player itself. Once I heard the difference, I could not afford it but could not deny the difference. Had those cables for 20yrs, and sold them for what I paid for them to a Pass Labs amp owner, and should have kept them. The OCD obsession started there, to a ridiculous degree I'll admit. Would have never believed it myself had I not tried it.
Really-really good interconnects can tend to hold a high % of value if you select well and keep them in really good condition with papers, certs, boxes. Some new-version interconnects are not always better than their prior versions depending on what sound you are looking for.
Thanks, decooney. I really appreciate your feedback, along with everyone else’s, too. You have to be in a certain position in life to be able to experiment freely with cables, especially high end cables, and this is not my circumstance. I took the first step and replaced the super cheapo cable from my DAC to my integrated and the results are drastically better. Clearly, that was a very good decision. Onward to the next steps.
OP, Yes, you can intermix and I’ve concluded the change and benefit realized is less noticeable with cables in the $100 range as you’ve noted. I’ve tested a lot of interconnects past 25yrs as a geek / nerd / hobby.
Works well with Higher End Cables Too: Now re-testing again with a full loom of Cardas (older signature Golden Reference) and full loom of Analysis Plus (OCC Crystal), while liking both brands for different reasons with the same brand end-to-end, I’m now going back and intermixing the two brands/models and noticing intriguing sound results with sort of a "hybrid" tone and texture. Thus, maintaining some of the plushness and tone of the CGR cables and speed and clarity of the AP OCC Crystals. The source cable tends to dictate the leading tone and texture vs. the cable between the preamplifier to amplifier. Can produce different results swapping source and preamp too for more or less of a plush or more clear sound.
Having tried it several times in all combinations, I’m not a firm believer that you must run the same brand/type cable end-to-end in a system. In some cases it can be worse or too much of one type of sound. All Salt -or- all Pepper (no), Salt -and- Pepper, both (yes) please.
I now have a low level buzzing coming out of my tweeters even when i am in mute. It happens even with the amp on and preamp off never had this before. Any suggestions would be great. Thanks in advance. [in
Low level buzzing coming from tweeters. | Audiogon Discussion Forum]
and then said
Got balanced cables as i now have a balanced preamp Purist made my single ended cables balanced buzzing is now gone. I will now used balanced always and use Purist always. Thanks!!!!
Reading between the lines, one could conclude ebm is not an engineer...
@genez “If you have yet to learn what you are specifically looking for?” This is very true. At first I wanted bass, then the magic of electrostatic, then more accurate and natural, finally musical. So, what I wanted changed over the decades.
If you have yet to learn what you are specifically looking for? (that can take years).. Enjoy. Its like using two different coffee beans when grinding to make coffee.
It depends is always the right answer. But as my equipmemt got better and better I zeroed in on a brand that consistently performed the best for me (Transparent). I have always suspected that combining a warm interconnect and a cold / detailed one serially would act as a filter... so that in the limit it would be a bad idea. .
Also, comparisons take time and after hundreds of hours of comparisons over decades... I really want to enjoy listening to music, not listening to my system. So, now I have a trusted brand that I know complements my equipment (ARC, Sonus Faber, and Transperant is a known compliment which I discovered independently) and and only requires a decision by me on how much to pay.
@stringreen My experience with Cardas products are that they are warm and if you have a hot, trebly system with noice, they can help hide it. The higher up the chain you go, the less warm, but if your system is balanced and quiet, then they obfuscate the details. For my early systems, that was exactly what I needed. Since then not so much.
What makes matters more complicated is that cable sounds different in different systems...depends what it connects. I had Cardas in my system which was recommended by my amp manufacturer, and it sounded awful. Colleen Cardas convinced me that their better cables would be more appropriate....ultimately tried their whole line....they all had a sound that I found unacceptable. I’m sure they sound great connected to different components....but that what this hobby is about.
As with most things in life, I believe in getting the best that I can afford. Most folks don't have unlimited budgets. If someone can only afford $100 set of cables,that's the budget. There are plenty of choices in that range. My personal opinion,is buy used. That's what I do 99% of the time.
"Under $100.00 sounds like cheap cable pretend it sounds good." The OP, who obviously doesn't have the type of disposable income as some members here, asks for help with a legitimate question. What he gets is a pompous, snotty comment meant to demean him instead of provide help. Can you imagine raising children with this type of attitude.
Between my analog and digital cables I have products from 8 different companies, with 2 different "series" from Kimber. Everything has it's own sound. So it's not an issues and probably better to mix and match. See (hear) what sounds best with individual components. I don't think there is a one size fits all brand of anything out there.Also the law of diminishing returns. There is a point were you are paying for a difference that only your dog or a bat is going to notice. I have many "value" cables that sound great and some expensive ones that sound really great, and have returned some expensive ones that didn't cut it. Didn't mean they were no good, just not the right fit for the component/ system. I have gotten to the point now where I'm happy with my choices. Fine tuning the sound is part of the process and can be fun and not necessarily expensive.
I was a mix and match sort of guy. However when I placed a pair of Cardas Golden Reference in place of Golden Presence between my CD player and preamp to match the pre - power connection everything just clicked into place and the improvement was very evident. I was quite surprised at the magnitude of improvement as they are both from the same series, same materials, almost identical construction, and when compared in isolation quite close in performance.
Now I’m not so sure. I’ll bet there are some great combinations out there; however it was an interesting learning experience.
I run different brands of cables in both my systems. To my ears both systems put a smile on my face. I know some folks stick with one brand for everything. I see both ways as being acceptable. I believe it comes down to synergy.
I would imagine if you did a blind test you would not be able to detect a difference. Someone should do this with twenty people present,
It's been done countless times.
I ran a blind speaker cable test @ AES in the 80s. After a few days running the test, I wrote on my page "Too tired to tell." Up to that point, I had 84% correct. At the end of the test, barely better than 50% correct. Ditto others in other tests [Tube v SS and Absolute Polarity]. Those that did well in one test usually did well in the others.
Note the tests were just rooms in [convention center? / hotel?] with poor sonics, moderate ambient noise and random interruptions.
An interesting side note is that towards the end of the test several listeners wrote C or N or ? for their choice in some tests. When we examined the tests, the non A/B choices correlated fairly well. We later determined the DAT error correction was messing up on the tape which had been played 100's of times. Sometimes the test is faulty. Any showroom comparison is certainly invariably so to determine suitability for your system unless it has the same equipment and room as yourself.
Some people can tell almost all the time, some about half and some never. That so many got it right in such abysmal conditions strongly endorses for audibility.
The AES committee running the tests concluded there was no difference.
When I ran an analog design team, we had some brilliant engineers. Some had great hearing and others not so much. We did completely blind testing in our sound lab. The candidate sat in the listening position and had to identify changes. The candidate had no communication with the test personnel as one could not see nor hear the other. They got to hear A and B as often as required. Then they had to choose A or B from 20 random playings. Guessing was not permitted. Acceptable choices were A B or ? for can't tell. Some did consistently well and some not.
Note that in some systems, a part / cable / component will be identifiable by some ALL of the time and in another system NONE.
I once participated in an evaluation of a new digital console for one of the major Japanese manufacturers against the competition. After the first play of each, I got up and left the room. The manufacturer's representative came out and asked me why I left after only 1 play. I told him that was all that was necessary. I re-entered the room when the blind testing started and got it correct 100% of the time as did a few others. Like any such test with a random selection of participants, there were some who could detect no difference.
Some will say but "There's a big difference between an amp / DAC / digital console and a mere wire." All are moving energy from one place to another, so if one device can impart a flavor why then can't all.
Those who can tell freely admit there are those that can't. If only the reverse were true.
Wrong Larry, I did a blind test. 4 different sets of wires. I sat in the chair, listened to one minute of the same music, while the salesperson changed the wires out. Did it many times. I could easily hear the difference and was able to actually identify the names of the different wires.
I find that people that are nay-sayers usually have never ever tried anything. They just like to spout their opinions.
Some Good advice here. I was skeptical of the benefits of cables. I had purchased the entire gamut of BlueJeans Cable and thought I was done. But, I was testing out CD players and ended up bringing my entire system including speakers to compare and contrast players on My system. After trying 7 different CD players I chose a Cambridge.
But then, just for fun I tried 3 different Patch cords. I only changed one set, from the source, CD player into my Pre-amp. When I tried the AudioQuest Waters the change was HUGE. The sound opened up, I heard separation and clarity. I couldn't believe my ears. I didn't want to spend $500 for two wires. But it had to be done. And it was well worth it.
BUT! I should have stopped there? I went down the very expensive trail of wires. I have a Pre-Amp and two Amps. All of which take wires. The upgrade to all AQ' Waters made a difference. I then went to Earth's. Subtle, but a change. Speaker wires too. Oaks. Smoother. No one with ears could deny the changes. But... was it worth it on my system? Maybe. To do it again, I would definitely change the source wires to quality ( side by side test if you can ) Change the speaker wires and be done.
BlueJeans were a good upgrade and they sounded equal to the AQ Gibralters. But for me the sweet spot was the Waters. Your ears may vary. But don't let anyone tell you wires don't make a difference.
HiFi is probably the least rigorous hobby extant. BS abounds. Doubly so in cables. The complete system is what is matters. IGNORE ALL SPECIFIC RECOMMENDATIONS. Even if the opinion is accurate, it only applies locally.
The lack of evaluation rigor coupled with probably shot hearing and intoxicants invalidates some of the biggest bloviators.
@m669326: You will get as many recommendations here as there are people to make them. I’ve only been pursuing this hobby for a bit over a year, so I do not have the years of experience that many here do. Also, the total cost of my gear is only about $7,500 and others here might have systems costing $20,000 or more. So what matters to them doesn’t necessarily apply to me.
I started out a cable skeptic, going truly cheap. As people here I consider knowledgeable think cables are important, I looked to improve my cables, though I still didn’t want to spend a lot. The same people often think it best to stay with a given brand of cables. Some well-regarded cable brands make cables in a wide range of prices, so I looked mostly to the more affordable versions of Silnote and Audioquest brands. I have not purchased any Blue Jeans or Schmidt cable, but they are affordable and seem well thought-of. I think it is reasonable to stay within a budget and enjoy the music that gives you. Others here would likely disagree.
I still didn’t answer your question, but I thought I could provide a perspective as to how to approach quality audio on a budget.
The size of the wires matter more than anything else, as for the material copper is pretty good for sound next is gold after that light or mercury whatever you fancy. Most high end cables are just a gimmicks, remember that sound has reached its limits and all has been discovered so now companies have to make something up to make new big sales.
Please watch out for RCA cables that won’t be good for tube gears but they meant for SS. It happened to me! After my guru made a whole bunch of RCA cable for me with good seal of the cable itself and with good plugs it took care of all the interfered noise—gone yesterday...gone. Good luck!
It's not a problem, especially in your price range, unless you're talking about about mixing within the pair, e.g.: Brand X for the right channel, Brand Z for the left.
you'll get changes from one on vs slightly different changes form the other. it may all be complimentary as total stack of effects and considerations, or it may not be all complimentary.
No harm will be done and it certainly won't stop the tunes from flowing.
And there's not much else to say about it... try it and see kinda thing.
Good? bad? You're the guy with the cable...
no cables were harmed in the making of this comment.
I understand this is a charged topic and there have been a lot of debates already about it. To refocus us again, let me mention that my question is not about expense or the value of cables in general or anything along those lines. It’s just the mixing of different brands when you need to use more than one interconnect. I’ve received a lot of perspective on this and I appreciate it.
“ …. $100 is relatively inexpensive for interconnects. The correct answer is, “it depends” the better your components, the bigger the difference you are likely to hear. But if your components are under a couple thousand each, it is unlikely to be noticable…”
+ 1 ….
(1) Everything in this hobby is built to its price point. At a very modest budget strata price-point for cables at $100, it is generally distilled down to just pick one of the popular brands …. And buy them pre-owned.
(2) If the audio system as a whole is unable to provide the requisite resolution for using high-end cables, its a wasted and expensive exercise.
But we do have sh-tton of arguments going on, though.
If you want to hang around for the fists thrown and ideological soap box enabled ego chest thumping posing as self affected logic derivatives..... there will be lots of it going on in this thread in.. (looks at watch)... a short while.
Stick around for the comedy show, if you can take it.....
Why, this might turn out to be this Friday nights mosh pit! Never know!
As for two different cables, well, don’t cross the streams.
As long as the budget for cables make sense with respect to the entire system. If you spend $1000 for a interconnect but your entire system is at $1000, there is something wrong there.
I recommend you read a few of the many cable threads on this forum, to get an idea of the nature of the discussions.
As far as mix and match is concerned, some people believe in full loom (same brand for all interconnects, speaker cables, all power cables). Other people deliberately mix and match different brands to get the exact effect they're after.
If you have the patch cords that come in the box for free these are about as useless as the freebie rubber power cords and the twist ties and plastic bags they come in. I was in your position many years ago and wondering the same things and extremely skeptical too, but one listen to some $75 XLO and I was sold. The difference was night and day. I went in five minutes from thinking $75 was too much to realizing wire is equally as important a component as anything else.
This is the right way to think of it. But first do what I did. Take your freebie crap patch cord to a store and compare. What you have is so bad anything will sound a lot better. Then once you know this much try and do the same thing with other interconnects. Every store is different, and the way you approach it matters too. But all the dealers I tried this with were good with it. One I even brought my CDP in to compare, another one I lugged my monster Dynaco ST400! This was all many years ago. You got to start somewhere!
The advice to match to your components or spend proportionate is all baloney. What if your components are harsh and grainy and hyped on top? So you are gonna buy a syrupy smooth rolled off wire? That is not system matching, that is slapping a band aid on a wound that will never heal. Then when you upgrade the offending component(s) you wind up having to replace the syrupy smooth rolled off band aid. How smart was that?
So buy whatever is the best you can afford, and do that by reading reviews or listening to it if you can. But seriously, reviews about how it sounds are all you need. That is all I have done for going on 20 years now. Works great. I never ever buy a band aid. I shun system matching.
I say BS to proportional spending too. Because if you find a really good interconnect, maybe it costs more than the amp or CDP it is connected to. But it elevates the sound of your system like you can't believe. Clearly then it is cost-effective. You are gonna not get it simply because some random audio poster said don't spend that much? Seriously? This advice is just not very well thought through, not at all. Get whatever sounds the very best you can afford, period. You will be amazed how well this works.
Just because a cable company makes a great speaker cable it does not mean that their IC's will be great, with cables it's trial and error.
The better your equipment the more you will be able to tell differences between cables. When people say that they cannot tell differences between cables it's most likely that their equipment is not good enough to show what the cable is capable of. The further up the latter you go the more important each item becomes in the audio chain.
"...I'm trying to minimize having to fiddle around by getting it right in the first place..."
The secret is to know what your system needs and buying the right cable to make your system sound the way you want it. Experience with a lot of cables helps but you can also get a consensus from the web or call the manufacturer for recommendations. Example: If your system is too bright, you probably don't want to add a silver, or other bright sounding cable.
To be clear, do you mean I might or might not notice the difference between cheap and expensive cables, or I might not notice the difference between matched cables from two different companies?
$100 is relatively inexpensive for interconnects. The correct answer is, “it depends” the better your components, the bigger the difference you are likely to hear. But if your components are under a couple thousand each, it is unlikely to be noticable.
dweller: I won't have an opportunity to trust my ears until new cables show up, so I'm trying to minimize having to fiddle around by getting it right in the first place.
jond: Is this common knowledge--a consensus pt of view?
You must have a verified phone number and physical address in order to post in the Audiogon Forums. Please return to Audiogon.com and complete this step. If you have any questions please contact Support.
