IMO many OP's will start a silly thread then abandon it. It's a bit like crazy ridiculous conspiracy theories get started....like the one the rich twitter fart just started. These things are started to elicit a response, then abandoned. I guess each person or organization has it's motives???
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@wyoboy Yes I see this is your ranting. No I have absolutely 0 idea what you are trying to say. You are so vague, there is nothing to argue with. Use names, facts quotes, what you are rambling about is utter nonsense. About covid: there are stats that prove clearly what worked and what didn't, how many lives were saved or not by the vaccine and policies. I rely on facts, not feelings.
Back to B&W - of course it's up to the OP to decide, if it's worth the price. All we can say is what our experience has beeen |
@grislybutter "Facts" about what ? Whether B&W's are worth the expense? There are no facts--only opinion on that one, but if 2/3 of the responders said "yes" then the new "science" would say it's a fact that they are. I don't have time or inclination to provide examples of all the assumptions that have been called "science"--but you know know deep down it's true. Science is not science without hypothesis or theory, a methodology and data supporting or disproving the H/T. These days the hypothesis or theory is declared "science" long before there's enough data to support or disprove it--not always the case but when journalists get hold of something it becomes "science"--just look around at how the pandemic unfolded and all the fake science declared around masks, hand washing, surface cleaning and how a drug that reduced symptoms was declared a vaccine--which it ain't. But enough of this--we don't need to debate--nothing can really help the OP here--there are no facts to support or disprove whether B&W speakers are worth the price because that is purely a value judgement... |
@wyoboy yeah, you are proving my point: you provided zero facts, just baseless assumptions and accusations |
@2psyop -- Some of the planet correctly believes that the kind of pseudoscience that liberals apply is what's evil--most people have no idea what science or the scientific method is and the term is slung around like a frisbee. Maybe he meant to say "To pricey or not to pricey-that is the question" ? |
@2psyop half of our planet now believes science is an evil liberal plot and the US attacked Russia in Ukraine, if you ever want to lower your expectations, this is the time..... |
To be honest, if I didnt use my own money and ears to listen to speakers and simply asked strangers online for their opinion I’d be lost all day and forever. I currently own a pair of 802D4’s… theyre absolutely incredible speakers, both build wise and sonically. They did a fantastic job with them. Nothing harsh or off about them… give them a try. |
I've owned a pair of 802 Nautilus speakers for 20+ years. The problem with the speakers is they require a lot of electrical current, which many amplifiers cannot supply. For the 800 series speakers, it has nothing to do with the Watt rating and everything to do with the amount of current that can be delivered. If they are driven from amplifiers without an adequate power supply, the output section of the amplifier soon runs out of enough electrical current and the sound stage collapses, the bass is reduced, the mids become honkey, and you soon wonder why you paid all that money. They need a high-current amplifier with at least a 200 Watt per channel rating. I drive mine from individual 200 Watt amplifiers and they sound really good. Are there other speakers that sound just as good? Of course, there is always competing equipment that sounds equally as good - and today the speakers probably cost a lot less than B&W 800 series speakers. Shop around, or be prepared to put a sizable chunk of money into an amplifier (or amplifiers) that can drive the speakers. |
I agree completely that speakers have to be matched to gear, but why do so many dealers not do that? I listened to the 804 d4’s powered by all Mac gear and the first song they played was Lorde’s big hit from a few years ago and I knew immediately I didn’t like the high end. After about 15 minutes, I asked them how long they had this setup expecting them to say it was new and needed some break in, but no, that was not the case. |
B@W speakers are very amp dependent-not a strong amp will sound bad-the stronger the amp the better they will sound |
@blackbag20 thank you |
I have 803 Nautilus for quite some time now, upgrading to the D verions with the Diamond Tweeter should be better for sure, but it will come at a cost. I've found the B&W sound to be warm and netrual and not bright sounding. They are very detail with alot of music seperation with enough bass that I dont need a subwoofer. Given these were made in 1996, the speakers still sound so great and could be had for less than $3K, the D versions will cost double, and the newer D3 or D4 will cost as much to do a paver driveway. Demo and let your ears be the judge. |
I was where you are. Old Classe electronics, B/W 802N's. I bought Audionet Max Amps and Pre G2 Preamp (I had already gotten the Vega DAC). Wow. It Sounded like new speakers!!!! Really. So when i actually got new speakers, wow again!!! Everyone comes over and points to my speakers and says 'wow' those are amazing speakers. It is easily 50% electronics, and people don't think that way.. |
How many takeovers, buyouts, etc. etc. has B&W been subject to since they were actually Bowers & Wilkins down in deepest Sussex? Who owns them now? Whatever you think of them nowadays, for the list price of any of their models it would be easy to find many superior-performing speakers made by different brands. |
@pennpencil the witty posts are always short and memorable |
I was recently visiting a prominent High end shop in Denver looking a a Macintosh receiver and the sales person decided that the B&W 600 or 700 series bookshelf speakers would (SOMEHOW) equate to what I described my towers to be, in an audition of the MAC. |
I own the 804 D4 and power them with a Gryphon Diablo 300 using Transparent cabling, my source is a Lumin P1 and sometimes I go USB out via a Lampizator Baltic 3 DAC. I bought the speakers/amp/source and cabling from the same dealer where I auditioned multiple system combinations from the likes of McIntosh Classe Sonus Faber Totem Aurender etc. I agree with those above who said your amp won’t produce the sonic goods with ANY of the 800 D4 series speakers. I would stick with your Nautilus speakers and upgrade your amp OR if you really have specifically speaker upgraditis you might want to try the Spendor D series for a more neutral/warmer sonic character or stick with a more high resolution brand like Focal Kanta series that are easier to drive than B&W. |
Most here, in this thread, have.
Good point, but- It`s either you move on to a more satisfying speaker, or you spend more money on the components, upstream, to match them. I did this. I have a SS amp paired with a tubed preamp. My B&W`s don`t sound bright, as they once had, but wonderful. |
@lalitk i had heard them, in my home. I didn't like them. Other people love them. That's exactly how it works, we find that there is no ultimate list, we all have different favorites. |
This has become so typical of posters here, most detractors never even heard the speakers or brands they often criticize in their home. Those complaining about B&W being bright and so on, please tell me which speaker doesn’t require careful matching with upstream electronics to sound its very best…… |
So, I got to hear the Joseph Audio Pulsars (original version) in the same system with the 804D3. IMHO the Pulsars did everything better than the 804s. I could respect what the 804s did, but they sounded sterile versus the musicality, imaging, and 3D soundstage of the Pulsars. My advice, you could get a very nice pair of used Pulsars for about $3500 or, even better, get a pair of Perspectives. IME they’re not even in the same league. FWIW. |
I auditioned the new D4 (803/804) powered by Classe Audio and I didn’t like either of them but it could be the amplifications and the speakers were merely broken-in (I used to own N802 and love it!) IMHO you may want to consider upgrading the NAD amp which should give you much better sounding than going from N804 to 804D4 |
In this current climate is better to go with pro speakers and looks for speakers made from wood and not break the bank. Also to build your own speaker is quite easy today and the material is a little expensive but you can make it so much better for a few thousand on a custom speaker is nearly better than a 20000 speaker just saying also diminishing returns is a real thing |
+1 @johnto...The Nautilus are also awesome. Many geezers are selling theirs now (think Florida). I would put the extra $ into the electronics. The NAD is not up to the abilities of any of the B and W 800 series speakers IMHO.
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To further my question its the newest models the 804d4 or 803d4 using NAD M25 amp have been running 804 Nautilus for almost 20 yrs paid 3500 USD considering inflation today Listen Up wants 14000 for 804 d4s and 23000 for 803d4s the speaker will only be 10ft from me just dont want to spend that kind of money for a latteral move any other brands to consider? |
No not to me. B&W are well made (800 series) and detailed but they get the fundamentals of frequency response wrong which is far more important than fancy materials. I had a private demo of the of the 802D4 on McIntosh MC611 mono amps and 2700 preamp ($70k worth of gear) came home and listened to my “budget” $25,000 stereo (picture in my profile) and mine was simply better. Perceived details were just as good and the frequency response was much smoother. I had bass slam with duel subs the 802D4 simply could not touch. Don’t get me wrong the 802D4 have good enough bass but near the same league as well integrated subs. the 802D4 and every other B&W for that matter (I have owned a few) have peaky mids with peaky highs. The 802D4 specifically makes male singers sound thin and seems to collapse to the mid driver. The highs are good/fun but play it loud for 45 minutes, it will be less fun. For me this speaker is only for someone older who has some hearing loss in. That is not meant to be negative. We are all at different stages in age/hearing. Anyway B&W are not terrible speakers. They look nice and are super detailed. Just comes down to if you can put up with the peaks in the upper mids and highs. The smaller models have crap bass. I have not heard the 804D4 but the measurements give me a moment of pause. They make that nice quality box then tune in a giant port noise peak?!?, crazy. |