Synergistic Red Fuse ...
Wolf,I'm with you about the Synergistic Red Fuse and Synergistic Quantum Black Fuse products. ." This may be off topic, but I was just thinking about how hard it must be for the people who manufacture and sell actual snake oil." I also think psychiatric help will one day be in order when their minds become clouded by their own web..." Oh, what a tangled web we weave..when first we practice to deceive." Walter Scott. |
"I suspect that having thousands of happy customers, you know, real audiophiles, is more of a heavenly thing." I can only assume that geoffkait is implying that snake oil is fine for thousands of happy "real audiophile" customers, and that is something I actually agree with. I even used his "copy whatever was said before your latest comment" technique…man…I'm turning into geoffkait…where are my bags of magic stones! NURSE! |
I get suspicious and a little anxious when people start trying to separate the "real audiophiles" from the "not-real (fake?) audiophiles." What if I don’t make the cut? Will I need a new uniform? Will I be forced to start listening to my music on a portable player.....or Walkman? Yikes! Is there a "real audiophile" refresher course? Do "real audiophiles" need to meet an annual quota of PDHs to maintain eligibility? Can "real audiophiles" maintain their status by purchasing one tweak per year...per quarter...who has the rule book? |
+1 Wolf and PTSS. It's just a hand full of these shills that are conning the gullible to spend >$100 on a 50c mains fuse. None of these shills have yet been able to post a link to the manufactures of these ($$) fuses, that states the "unbelievable voodoo improvements" that can be achieved that they say their getting. Let alone the directional ability they also say they have. The gullible also have to ask themselves, why don't the top equipment manufactures use these $$ fuses if they're so good, and advertise they do for even better sound of their mega dollar audio equipment. Then there's the technical proof, that can't be pointed to to say otherwise. Cheers George |
George, to answer your question; Here are just a couple of site quotes from fuse manufactures. Yes they obviously sell these, market these, based on delivering better sound. They don’t try to hide it and push better sound as the big benefit. This is not news? This builder ( Audio Horizons) also puts the fuse in his amps and preamps touting better sound. No secret or hiding of what they feel is the big benefit. Fine sounding gear as an FYI. "What Makes the Platinum Reference “More Than a Fuse" So Fine? Without betraying proprietary information, let me note that the More Than a Fuse dramatically increases the impedance from 0.2 ohms to 10 ohms at 10 MHz, thus increasing high frequency noise-rejection fifty fold over that of a conventional fuse. As a result of this increased noise rejection, one can hear delicate extended high frequencies formerly swallowed up in noise." "And because the Platinum Reference “More Than a Fuse” also reduces ultra high frequency noise by up to 46 dB or more, a ratio 200 times that of a typical fuse, high frequency harmonic texture is heard against a dead quiet background with a level of detail and refinement so sweet, delicate, and with such presence and immediacy—well, it will make you smile." " Synergistic Research RED Fuses feature proprietary alloy burn wires and end caps encased in anti-resonant ceramic bodies. RED fuses are then treated with 2,000,000 volts of electricity in a process we call Quantum Tunneling that alters the conductor at a molecular level for optimum performance. Unique to SR RED Fuses is a new treatment process applied exclusively to SR RED Fuses that realigns the crystal structure of both the burn wire and the end caps for a refinement in high frequency characteristics and improved timbre linearity. All told SR RED fuses significantly outperform every other high-end fuse on the market and are the only fuses guaranteed to deliver a significant increase in system performance or your money back. When compared to our award winning SR20 Quantum Fuses, SR RED Fuses sound more refined with smoother highs and more linear frequency extension from the deepest bass to the highest highs; no small feat given the remarkable " "Synergistic Research Quantum Fuses employ a custom alloy treated with 2,000,000 volts of electricity! SR Quantum Fuses significantly outperform all other high-end fuses on the market and are guaranteed to deliver a noticeable increase in sound staging, resolution and air thanks to a lower noise floor and blacker backgrounds. SR Quantum Fuses are available with a 30-day no risk money back guarantee so you can directly compare them to other high-end fuses on the market including Hi Fi Tuning Supreme, Furutech, and Audio Magic. With over 60 values to choose from, you’re sure to find the perfect value for your system’s components." |
... the More Than a Fuse dramatically increases the impedance from 0.2 ohms to 10 ohms at 10 MHz, thus increasing high frequency noise-rejection fifty fold over that of a conventional fuse.Bill, as a point of information an 8 inch length of medium gauge wire will have an impedance of about 10 ohms at 10 MHz. And of course an AC mains fuse will be in series with far greater lengths of wire than that, taking into account the AC wiring in the component, in the power transformer, and in the power cord. Also, the power transformer itself can be expected to have far too little bandwidth to pass frequencies that high. ...And because the Platinum Reference “More Than a Fuse” also reduces ultra high frequency noise by up to 46 dB or more, a ratio 200 times that of a typical fuse...46 db corresponds to a voltage ratio of 200 times, so this statement implies that a typical fuse provides zero noise rejection. I don’t doubt that :-) However, without a statement of what frequency the 46 db of noise rejection occurs at, and in what kind of circuit application, and without a basis upon which to determine if that unspecified frequency has any reasonable likelihood of having audible consequences in typical applications, the statement is meaningless. I would feel certain, however, that in the case of an AC mains fuse the associated AC wiring and especially the power transformer would provide far greater noise rejection than their fuse would. The bottom line: While I take no position on the efficacy of their fuses, these statements are misleading techno-babble. Regards, -- Al |
grannyringGeorge, to answer your question; That answered nothing, as I asked for fuse manufacturers links, who state the claims made that their fuses will improve the sound of your audio. I’ve seen you post links before, why do you not do them now? Is it that your just posting hearsay and not the words of the fuse manufacturer themselves? Cheers George |
I improved my system by about 20% of what the fuses have done by replacing the 6SN7 cathode follower tubes in my amps today. I had 1950s GE tubes which Andy of Vintage Tube Services stated they are mediocre at best. He told me to stick with RCA and Sylvania tubes. I purchased a pair of Sylvania 6SN7 GTB 1950s tubes. The manufacturer told me that the cathode follower tubes all sound the same. Wrong. The improvement was immediate. Superior ambience, greater micro-dynamics, clearer sound. Sounds a lot like the benefit of the fuses but not as dramatic (the bass, mids and macro dynamics sound about the same other than the enhanced clarity). As to comments about audiophile designations, I am probably only a borderline audiophile based on my having mostly decades old equipment, 10 year old CD players (EAR Acute), analog gear (VPI TNT VI, Benz Ruby 3 other than a modded SME IV arm from 1989), 15 year old custom amps, preamp, phono stage, 23 year old speakers (Legacy Focus & Sig IIIs), 50 year old 2nd system with highly modded Dynaco ST70 and 18 year old highly modded CD player. The only changes I’ve made in the past 10 years are to the tweaks, Hallographs, Stillpoints, Fuses, Duplex Outlets, Wiring and a Bryston 20 amp isolation transformer. I’m more concerned with the music than the sound which is why I have 42,000 records and CDs. I spend more time listening to music than watching TV despite having a 75" 4K 1 year old Sony with all the software, channels and Android apps one could want. |
Hi fleschler, Andy is a very knowledgeable and reliable source. I’ve bought from him in the past and was pleased with his tubes and service. As I’ve mentioned in this thread previously, the SR Black fuses were sonically more impactful than some tube swaps that I’ve done. As with you my music listening hours exceeds my television viewing. You certainly have an "enormous " (and I am sure wonderful sounding) library of recordings 😊. Charles |
George, first time I have ever posted these. Anyway these are direct quotes from manu sites and specifically answer your question perfectly. These are the actual quotes from manu sites on current and past products. I just did a 10 minute search and copy and pasted. You will find the very same quotes from the manufactures by doing the same search. I have never posted any other quotes on this matter, as far as I remember, as it really does not occupy much of my time or concern. I thought I would just help answer your question as I have seen it now a few times. Al, I am not saying these comments or quotes are true. Just sharing actual site quotes for George as he keeps asking a question which is very easy to answer by just looking at the manu sites current and past. That is all I did. I agree with your comments. George since you don't trust me here are the links for you read the same quotes I gave earlier; http://www.audio-horizons.com/pages/fuse.html http://www.synergisticresearch.com/new-category-synergistic-research-quantum-fuses-furutech-hifituni... http://www.synergisticresearch.com/synergistic-researchs-new-reference-red-fuse/ |
http://www.audio-horizons.com/pages/fuse.html >$118 Not one word about it improving the sound, just a lot of voodoo on impedance at 10mHz, and leaving the sound of it up to the gullible buyer, by stating " the proof is in the listening." http://www.synergisticresearch.com/new-category-synergistic-research-quantum-fuses-furutech-hifituni... >$50 This statement has grounds for legal action, as it's impossible, unless the fuse has a 1st 2nd 3rd or 4th order HF filter inside it. "Fuses significantly outperform all other high-end fuses on the market and are "guaranteed to deliver a noticeable increase in sound staging", resolution and air thanks to a lower noise floor and blacker backgrounds." http://www.synergisticresearch.com/synergistic-researchs-new-reference-red-fuse/ Also grounds for legal action, I'm not a lawer but I think the first two words (All told) are the get out of jail free card. " All told SR RED fuses significantly outperform every other high-end fuse on the market and are the only fuses guaranteed to deliver a significant increase in system performance or your money back. When compared to our award winning SR20 Quantum Fuses, SR RED Fuses sound more refined with smoother highs and more linear frequency extension from the deepest bass to the highest highs; no small feat given the remarkable performance of our original SR20 Quantum Fuses. ." I've never come across such blatant B/S in all my years of audio, sorry yes I have, "Shun Mook Mpingo Discs" You guys should be ashamed of yourselves for preaching this rubbish, I hope your getting well compensated for it. Cheers George |
Georgelofi said, "I’m not a lawyer." Gee, no kidding? You probably don’t know that amps, speakers, whatever frequently don’t measure the same as the stated specifications when tested. Would you believe they never measure the same in different rooms? Who ya gonna call? Ghostbusters! Someone once did try to get the FCC on my case for the Teleportation Tweak, I will admit. I don’t think anyone has ever tried to measure Shun Mook discs but they’re quite effective in any case. In fact I’d go as far as to say they’re Super Duper. I actually have experience. Can you believe it? This all just substantiates my contention that this is a classic case of Advanced Audiophiles vs uh, let me choose my words carefully - the Opposite. |
George, the Audio Horizons site does talk about sound quality here; "with a level of detail and refinement so sweet, delicate, and with such presence and immediacy—well, it will make you smile." Come on now please be intellectually honest. Your question was answered and the companies do tout better sound. These are just what I found in 10 minutes! As to the truth of what they say on technical matters, you may be right and I am not smart enough to pick a dog in that debate. I do know they impact sound however. All you have to do is remove one and insert a copper slug or bypass one to know they certainly impact sound. I have done it and know the result. I have also heard one fuse sound different then another and one fuse increase my enjoyment of music more than another. In this regard I am like you in that I know the truth about fuses and no amount of prose on these threads really means anything as I have experienced the truth already. |
A couple of further comments regarding the statements at the AH site: 1)As I mentioned in my previous post, it follows from the second of the two statements I quoted that a "typical fuse" provides zero noise rejection. Which sounds right to me! Their first statement I quoted says that their fuse increases "high frequency noise-rejection fifty fold over that of a conventional fuse." It’s worth reflecting upon the fact that 50 times zero is still zero. 2)Regarding their statement about the 10 ohm impedance of their fuse at 10 MHz, a far more effective approach to attenuating 10 MHz noise, as well as noise at other similarly high frequencies, would be to put a suitably chosen ferrite clamp costing a few dollars around the power cord, near the IEC connector on the component. Which is not to say, though, that in a given application there would necessarily be any benefit from doing so. Personally, I would always much prefer to see a manufacturer say something along the lines of "frankly, we don’t know why it works but it does," than to provide misleading and specious technical explanations. Best regards, -- Al |
Actually, and I apologize for repeating myself for the umpteenth time, but there are already enough perfectly good reasons why aftermarket fuses work better than ordinary fuses without having to go down rabbit holes like noise rejection and how many dB dance on the head of a pin. Furthermore why would anyone say, "We don't know how it works, we just know it does? That would be ignorant and not serve any purpose. If I can be so bold, the only ones here who are claiming they don't know how aftermarket fuses work are the pseudo skeptics. No offense intended. |
+1 Almarg The only reason you could ever need better fuses or better power cords is if your equipment is totally inadequately designed and badly built to begin with! Well designed and well built Components will maximize the accuracy of the source signal and totally minimize all other extraneous factors like interconnects, cables and power cords - all to inaudible levels. If you hear a difference from changing an extraneous factor like a power cord then there is something seriously wrong with your equipment or set up to begin with. It may happen but it is really not acceptable for audio equipment to be so unreliable. |
Actually Geoff, George said ,"I am a not a lawer". Accuracy is important when discussing fuses. Lawers are a new form of pseudo-lawyers that that have no legal training nor other qualifications but exist to warn us that there is a potential lawsuit. Like the LifeLock commercials where the guy in uniform in the bank says, "There’s a robbery". George was just being modest as he has demonstrated every attribute of a full-blown lawer, so please give him the respect that he so rightfully deserves. I think we should all chip in and get him that uniform. It’s the least we can do in my opinion. Lawers, whether admittedly so or not, are very valuable and should be thanked for their selflessness and service to protect the common good. Dave |
shadowman wrote, "The only reason you could ever need better fuses or better power cords is if your equipment is totally inadequately designed and badly built to begin with! Well designed and well built Components will maximize the accuracy of the source signal and totally minimize all other extraneous factors like interconnects, cables and power cords - all to inaudible levels. If you hear a difference from changing an extraneous factor like a power cord then there is something seriously wrong with your equipment or set up to begin with. It may happen but it is really not acceptable for audio equipment to be so unreliable." Do you have anything to support ANY your statements? Anything at all? It sounds like you're just huffing and puffing. No offense to you personally. |
Shadorne a fuse is an internal part along with caps, diodes, resistors, wire, trannys etc.... all these internal parts do impact the sound assuming the unit is designed properly as you say. A properly designed tube amp does benifit sonically when higher quality parts are used like Duelund caps, Vishay nude resistors, film caps in the power supply, silver wire trannys, and a better quality fuse. It’s all in the soup. This also holds true for any piece of gear. Parts matter beyond just hitting spec. So in the end any well and properly designed piece of gear can sound good and even very good without upgraded caps, resistors, trannys, and fuses. No need for these boutique parts in well designed gear unless one wants that next level of improved fidelity. Power cords do the same thing as boutique parts often times. You are most happy without the boutique parts and that is most understandable. Nevertheless, these parts including fuses, wire, and cords do often improve fidelity. If not, then buy one of the many pro sound amps which are properly designed for $300 and that would be as good as it gets and this whole site/hobby is really useless. I know it is useless for many perhaps including yourself which again is perfectly reasonable and understandable. However, others have the need and appreciate what is possible which is also understandable. |
So if every amp maker, regardless of type, were to make their amps to some same exacting spec, to the point where a fuse or cable wouldn't make a lick of difference, then all amps would sound the same. Wouldn't they? If so, then we could all go to Best Buy to buy our gear and it would be even easier since there would be no need to have more than one make or brand. Welcome, comrades, to the new order. Now we can do away with sites like this since there'd be no need for discussion. Just a music section where we could all argue about music, unless it can be determined that all music, properly written and scored, sounds alike and then we can all have just one song to listen to. Simplicity at it's best. No need for satire either, since there wouldn't be any mistakes being made, no advances or trials to further anything that needs to be derided and pooh-poohed. Life without choices or diversity. Can't wait. All the best, Nonoise |
almargYes that would be a more honest approach, and to get rid of face saving comments like " the proof is in the listening." Cheers George |
Georgelofi almarg Personally, I would always much prefer to see a manufacturer say something along the lines of "frankly, we don’t know why it works but it does," than to provide misleading and specious technical explanations. Best regards, -- Al Yes that would be a more honest approach, and to get rid of face saving comments like " the proof is in the listening." Cheers George Thanks, George, that’s just the pick-me-up I needed for a slow Sunday afternoon. I hate to be the one to point this out but saying, "the proof is in the listening" is the SAME as saying, "we don’t know why it works but it does." Have you been nodding out on us? Hel-loo! have a nice afternoon |
Your car drives better after you wash it…everybody knows that. Your hifi rig sounds better after you stick expensive fuses in it, or it should sound a LOT better based on the opinions of Real Audiophiles because if it doesn't, you're gonna feel like an idiot. Nobody wants that…you need to feel good about your tweaks because you're smart, you're a sensitive music listener, and darn it, people LIKE you. |
grannyring 01-29-17 Thank you for publishing a link to the Audio Horizon's website, which provides an insight into the reasoning involved in the manufacture of their "platinum reference more than a fuse." I found it very interesting. Moreover what a manufacturer say about its products is always worthy reading. |
This just in! Audio Magic checks in with Nano liquid filled fuses. Liquid filling...yum! from the Audio Magic website, Audio Magic is known for having the quietest, best sounding fuses on the market today. When it comes to innovative fuse design we accomplish this by stopping noise in a variety of ways that no one else does. a. Stop the element from vibrating at 50/60 hz which is a huge noise component. We accomplish this by injecting the fuse with a proprietary liquid anti vibration material that stops the vibrating element in it's tracks. b. Injecting the fuse with our Black Out mixture which gobbles up internal and external EMI and RF. c. Treat the fuse with our Nano Streaming process which brings the crystalline structure of any metal in the fuse closer together thus removing static discharge in the fuse as well as making all metal parts better conductors. d. Incorporating our exclusive i Core Technology in the Premier line, this process allows for the energy going through the fuse to do so in a very uniform manner thus increasing efficiency. Nano Premium Liquid Fuse This is our entry level fuse which incorporates a mixture of our anti-vibration fluid and Black Out material blended together. Super Fuse This fuse is filled with a 1/3 anti-vibration material and 2/3 Super Black Out mixture for even better EMI and RF control. Premiere Super Fuse This fuse is just like the standard Super Fuse, only we've add our NEW i Core Technology to the fuse. Premier Bees wax Super Fuse This fuse is identical to the Premier Super Fuse only we've replaced the standard anti-vibration material with Bees Wax [ a very intense process ]. This fuse gives all the great attributes of the Standard Premier with a very organic flavor. All Audio Magic fuses have had extensive testing done to make sure the fuses blow at the ratings the manufacturer intended, and, no, they will not leak as the fluid solidifies after about an hour of being in. |
Shadorne is of course correct. Hearing sonic differences, especially improvement, from aftermarket fuses and power cords is the best way to identify inferior equipment. I had it backwards all this time, thinking that the best equipment would be revealing of improvements in the quality of power they are fed. Wrong thinking! Based on his superbly-vetted advice, I have decided to finally accept reality and sell off my Ayre, Krell, Classe’, and ModWright equipment as soon as possible. I am still testing my VPI turntable to see if it sounds different or better with an aftermarket power cord attached to the SDS controller. If so, it’s outta here too. I plan to keep my aftermarket power cords and fuses temporarily for use when carefully auditioning the replacement equipment to ensure that I can hear no differences between the perfectly good cords and fuses that come with the new equipment and these aftermarket voodoo products. I could use some help from those following this thread and elsewhere identifying equipment to avoid as I move forward. Please post the makes of your equipment if you hear any differences when using aftermarket cords and fuses in order to help me avoid these products. For this assistance I will be forever grateful, but not nearly as much so as to shadorne for making me see the light. I also plan to test my car to see if it performs better with expensive non-OEM tires. If so, it’s outta here too. The factory knows what works best. Cost is never a consideration. The nonsense saying that better constructed tires make a car handle better is also marketing hype to deceive the weak minded into giving the fraudulent high-performance tire makers money. Don’t believe it! Dave |
George Jetter, I have a dedicated music room 25’ X 23’ X 12.6’ high with too many records on the floor but mostly in custom wall shelving. Also about 5,000 of the 7,000 CDs are in metal drawer cases. The records and CDs which are put away on walls and cases are filed in my computer; unfortunately, I’m too busy to list about 8,000 of them (arrivals in the past 10 years). I will attempt to post photos in the future.maybe through a URL? I had no damage from the 1994 earthquake due to the shelving, 6" concrete floor with tied 1/2" rebar and 8" to 12" thick exterior walls. |
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+5 again Dlcockrum. Does anybody here know why a 1987 Saab 900 was my favorite car to drive around in? I doubt it. I can't say for sure. I doubt it could be measured, if it could it would not be easily I'm thinking. But it is. Now here is the tale, should anybody care? Dlcockrum. I thought an honorable Lawer in southern speak means 'lower'. So George being a 'lower' means he is as you imply is in the humble service of others. I think most will agree we can attest to George being just like that. I think he deserves a pre paid magazine subscription to 'good manners' and 'how to make friends' to help him keep his cheery personality. This thread would be worse off if he ever loses that. |
Small silk bags containing multi-color quartz aquarium rocks, with a minimum of two audiophile fuses per bag, are incredibly effective in taming runaway hi-fi systems, especially after being frozen for at least 48 hours. Bags should be placed atop speakers and electronic components. The optimum number of bags is system-dependent. Drawstrings on the bags should be woven from hemp for best performance. YMMV |
They say all these SR fuses sound even better if you freeze them overnight, trouble is you only get 15mins of even more blissful music before they thaw out. To counter this, one should have a stash of them in the freezer that way you have it covered for a couple of hours. Then use them for the second time in the opposite direction to counter them getting polarised. Cheers George |
The thing I really like about the fuses, is I can forget about them. After investing the time to determine the best sounding direction (didn't take long at all, in my case), and get through the break in period, I don't have to fiddle with, readjust, tune, or reapply anything. I can just just sit back and enjoy the music. I did my research, and decided to go with higher values than the stock fuses, so no worries about them blowing; unless something happens where they should blow. |
ps Small silk bags containing multi-color quartz aquarium rocks, with a minimum of two audiophile fuses per bag, are incredibly effective in taming runaway hi-fi systems, especially after being frozen for at least 48 hours. Bags should be placed atop speakers and electronic components. The optimum number of bags is system-dependent. Drawstrings on the bags should be woven from hemp for best performance. YMMV Lots of yuks, but seriously, folks, there are many ways to improve the performance of any fuse, even super duper aftermarket fuses. To whit, 1. Cryo the fuse or use the trusty home freezer. 2. Apply a contact enhancer such as Quicksilver Gold to the fuse end caps prior to installation. 3. Apply a teeny weeny WA Quantum Chip for Fuses to the fuse in situ. 4. Apply some sort of anti vibration material to the fuse holder. 5. Surround the fuse with a mu metal "tent" to shield it from magnetic fields, especially if there happens to be a large transformer anywhere nearby. As mu metal is conductive ensure mu metal doesn’t contact the fuse end caps. 6. Paint the end caps violet/purple using permanent marker. This can be accomplished in situ. geoff kait machina dynamica no goats, no glory |
