+1 Almarg
The only reason you could ever need better fuses or better power cords is if your equipment is totally inadequately designed and badly built to begin with!
Well designed and well built Components will maximize the accuracy of the source signal and totally minimize all other extraneous factors like interconnects, cables and power cords - all to inaudible levels.
If you hear a difference from changing an extraneous factor like a power cord then there is something seriously wrong with your equipment or set up to begin with. It may happen but it is really not acceptable for audio equipment to be so unreliable.
|
Geoff,
Pick up any of hundreds of books on audio amplifier or speaker design. You will find ample proof that equipment is designed to minimize extraneous noise from the power supply (that is where you will find the fuse). You will find a low output impedance and a high input impedance is recommended in order to minimize interconnection effects.
I dont know know why any of you would think well designed audio equipment should magnify things that we definitely do not want to hear. If this is not self apparent then you are in the wrong hobby because listening to music means a focus on the music (source signal) and not the fuse in the power supply.
|
If a mere fuse makes a huge difference in sound then that should tell you the condition of your equipment is piss poor.
The power supply is supposed to be designed to entirely isolate the interference of slight differences in power input from the audio signal. If a mere fuse makes a difference then pretty much anything will make your setup sound different. A system that can't handle such minute differences will never sound the same from minute to minute, day to day. Power is varying ALL the time - a fact of life given that stuff in your house and street go on and off all day long.
I would immediately get rid of any equipment that was so unstable and inaccurate that minute differences in power input have large effects on what I hear.
Surely it is self evident that we are trying to listen to the source music with the least interference or coloration from extraneous factors and it makes sense to buy equipment that achieves this. |
No I am not kidding. I do not want equipment that magnifies minute variations in the power supplied to the amplifier power supply which is supposed to filter and protect amplifier circuits from power variations. Why would I want to hear differences in fuses or the small effects of my neighbour down the street when they turn on an appliance and the small effect it has on the power my home receives. It makes no sense to build audio gear that magnifies such things - if you hear such things then either the equipment is faulty or the design of the power supply is atrocious. |
Frank,
Are you actually saying that the highest resolution systems magnify everything including power supply variations and everything else unrelated to the source?
Have you not considered that a system that magnifies the impacts of a fuse is likely obscuring what is coming from the source?
I regard audible effects from extraneous factors such as fuses to be distortion. I do not want equipment that magnifies distortion.
Geoff or Nyame,
No Strawman ( or are you claiming the fuse is not integral to the point where power comes in). No Sadness from me only the reality that in some crazy threads here ( fortunately the minority) there is clearly a complete lack of common sense and the emperor has no clothes. Please note that ad hominem attacks simply mean you are at a loss for a counter argument as to why you would support equipment that magnifies the fuse sound?
|
@knghifi.
Everything sounds the same?
Huh?
Not sure if you are kidding or have no experience.
Of course equipment makes a difference.
Clearly faulty or badly designed equipment is causing several audiophiles grief here. They are finding large audible differences when there should not be. Unfortunately their gear is adding distortion from minute differences in the fuse. |
@oregonpapa
I don't buy the purity argument. We are talking about modern electrical power to a modern power supply and not medieval alchemy.
I do buy many many of the tweaks you mention. Not so much power cords but I do believe power conditioners can help badly designed equipment perform better. So we agree on many things.
I also agree on Mel Torme and I have many of his albums in both vinyl and CD. Exceptional crooner!!! Possibly the best and better than Sinatra in many ways. |
These fuses are quite a bit more expensive. If you have not tried them then you don’t have an opinion. Logically this must be 1000’s of times better than the very small but quite effective SR fuses. https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/scientist-holding-large-fuse-11471106.jpgNotice that the audiophile in the photo has mounted his speaker wires on cable elevators - this guy is clearly an authority to be highly regarded. |
@oregonpapa
Quote
"
In addition, for your consideration, I would like to add category "C."
C) These are the ones who carry negative feelings throughout their entire narrow darkened little lives toward anyone who is more successful, more intelligent or better looking than they are.
There is a high probability of domestic violence perpetrated by them upon family members and/or friends either verbally, physically, or both somewhere in their history.
Frank
"
I think that is a bit OTT. It is even worse than saying "if you can't see the emperors beautiful new raiment then you must be stupid."
For myself I can only be saddened that some people put up with such poorly maintained or designed equipment that they have resorted to flipping fuses and even worse - a different fuse actually sounds different on their inadequate gear ! All this when a fuse is not even remotely in the signal path!! So sad that boutique gear can be that unreliable. I admit to having a preamp that was improved by a mains conditioner but from that day on I was looking to replace this inadequate preamp. A power supply is inadequate if it cannot filter out noise from the mains and tragically lacking if it is sensitive to a mere fuse. |
@mac48025
"...a fuse CAN'T effect (affect) sonics? Why not? Doesn't AC quality do so? Don't quality power cords do so? Why not the spot where all that AC current is condensed into a frail wire designed to disintegrate upon too much amperage? If that's not the weak link, what is?
You all miss the point - including Wolf. Anything could indeed affect sonics if equipment is badly designed or poorly maintained or malfunctioning.
A power supply is supposed to be designed to provide clean power to the audio line signal and amplification and processing circuits. A great power supply design should NOT be affected by simple differences in a fuse under normal operating conditions and if said fuses are both adequately specified.
Audio equipment should be designed to amplify and preserve the detail quality of the AUDIO signal (low S/N, low distortion etc.) under normal operating conditions (includes significant variations in A/C power during the day as well as from location to location). This includes replacing the fuse!
Audio equipment should NOT be designed to amplify minuscule differences in a fuse or an infinite number of other extraneous factors (room temperature, humidity, vibration etc.) Just look at all the isolation and various designs to minimize vibration pick up and rumble from a turntable!!! A great turntable minimizes distortion from the pick up of extraneous vibration a poorly designed or malfunctioning turntable picks up too much vibrations.
Faulty or poorly designed equipment or poorly executed equipment setups are the reason a mere fuse can make a huge difference.
So there is No Can't - anything is possible in this crazy boutique world of high end audio - only there should Not be big differences in fuses on excellent equipment.
|
Homage to Duke by Dave Grusin is a fantastic recording.
BTW - since when did this thread become about Jazz recordings? Did I miss something in the way fuser’s logic is fused? Like the way fuser's think that extreme sensitivity to fuses and possibly other extraneous factors means their equipment performance is exceptionally good? |
Burning in electronics without playing music is like breaking in a car on cruise control - not recommended. All the gears and moving parts in your electronics are not getting a varied enough workout. Like with oil in the car it is a good precaution to change all the electrons after break in. I check electron levels in my electronics every time before starting - nothing worse with regard to wear and tear than running an amp without enough electrons or dirty electrons. Fuses are akin to oil filters - they should be changed regularly or face the cosequences when your amp seizes up.
|
@charles1dad
+1 You and Don are right. This thread is so diverse - thanks to all the wisdom displayed here and some great contributions.
Perhaps the thread could be expanded even further!
How about My Little Pony? Anyone have a favorite from a audiophile perspective? I quite like Applejack. I usually place her on the left speaker. It really adds to the imaging within the soundstage (more so than cables). I find Pinkie Pie adds depth and I usually place her on top of the DAC.
|
@oregonpapa
No Worries. Back in the day my dad did two open hearts a day - that was tough and recovery for patients was lengthy. These days with modern techniques it is a walk in the park. |
+1 @almarg
@aeoluskratos
As some have stated, on badly designed equipment with under-rated fuses the fuse can be stressed on power up and resistance may rise leading to eventual failure. This used to happen in the past with Zinc based fuses. This should not happen with modern copper or silver based fuses in proper modern well designsed equipment. Should you experience an improvement it suggests that the original fuse was faulty. That you hear no directionality is correct - there isn’t any.
|
"Anyone who is building “high-end” products that are limited by power supply performance should find a different business."
Quote above from reputable audio equipment manufacturer
For audiophiles that need special power cords or fuses, the above statement can be adapted to;
"Anyone who is buying “high-end” products that are limited by power supply performance should find a different product."
|
iQSE.....Yes Jack Bybee has discovered entire new branches of physics. He has an Active Room Neutralizer that plugs into the AC power and resonates the air molecules in the room such that it allows the transmission of sound without the usual time misalignment of frequencies.
Good Grief.
The only passive thing that can have an effect from a distance stuck on the inside of a steel chassis is probably made from a high permeability material like mu metal. Nothing magical as this very high permeability metal will alter transformer generated magnetic fields from the power supply and will act as a shield from stray fields.
Alternatvely some form of vibration damping may help with microphonic equipment (poor design to begin with as electronic equipment can be easily designed that is NOT microphonic).
Of course a well designed power supply and carefully designed component should not need a band aid like this.
|
Lol. Quantum mechanics is real and so are many mind boggling things like black holes. Naysayers do not deny them. Quantum mechanics plays a role in junctions in transistors.
However, there is absolutely no evidence that these things play any meaningful role with regard to sound when a so-called "quantum mechanical" device is stuck to the inner chassis.
It is the same as saying you don’t need a special device to prevent the audio interference of black holes and having someone say you are a naysayer because you deny black holes exist (The existence of black holes does not mean black holes affect audio or their effect can be mitigated.)
|
My point is that not everything that exists or existed will affect the audio signal in a meaningful way. Simple existence of acid rain does not mean we need to be concerned about it for audio reproduction of music. |
@geoffkait
Why a supermassive black hole in the centre of our galaxy?
Because the supreme creator speaks to us through music! We may be made in the creators image but the galaxy is made in the image of a giant turntable with a black hole at the center and Earth being in the grooviest place. |
