In a way going from a couple of hundred bucks a pop fuses to $3K for a power cord is a whole different ballgame.
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I have followed this thread from the beginning, and I am also considering ordering a couple of blacks, based on this thread, so I do not consider myself closed minded. But I see the logic of bondmanp's manufacturer comments above, and it makes me wonder how any fuse can actually improve the music. It seems that the fuse is not like a cable that has a signal flowing through it, we know that the cable metal conductor & covering can impact the signal?
It just seems a fuse can either allow more or less voltage to pass through, and/or somehow "filter" something bad out of the current passing through. Is the latter the case here, that the fuse is filtering out something bad from the current? I have read about the "special" properties of the fuses metal filament. I have read all the testamonials and am not disagreeing, just wondering what is the source of the improvements.
Thanks,
George |
You seem to have not acknowledged that we are having this discussion because a lot of people we respect on Agon have noted they had positive results with the fuse.
Some of us were just trying to figure out why and how. It seemed to be somewhat of a polite back and forth, until, as usual..........
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I don't know anything about electronics, but I feel like my rather simple question above was not addressed, except partially by Al. It is how can a fuse that voltage passes through, but not signal, impact or rather improve the sound of a system, unless it is acting as a filter and in some way removing impurities from the current? Not unlike a power conditioner?
Really just wondering. Also, Maplegrovemusic +1 |
mapman, you are such a gentleman.
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geoff, come on, actually Jipkait is very humorous. And if Map did "purchase a sense of humor", would it come with a 30 day money back guarantee?
nogoatsnoglory
George |
I believe knghifi has pinpointed a philosophical difference above that has lead to much of the discussions, back in forth, about the use of the fuses.
"Still no good, either don't like the changes or fuse identify a flaw in the system."
This implies that not liking the sound change a fuse imparts, or not hearing a change in the system, is because something is "wrong" with the system.
On the other hand, others might think that if your system needs a new fuse, any fuse, any price, to make it sound better, then that system is not sounding right to start with.
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Yes, the SR is much different, according to their website they do this:
Conditioned with a proprietary treatment that alters the conductor at the crystal structure and then treated with 2,000,000 volts of electricity which alters the conductor at the molecular level, the Synergistic Research Black Duplex is truly state-of-the-art. Materials include UEF Coatings and Graphene with 8-million times the conductive density of copper. Synergistic Research’s new UEF Black Quantum Duplex will revolutionize the way you plug in and tune out! |
Simple logic:
A person who likes the sound of their system leaves it alone.
A person who does not like the sound of their system continues to try to improve it.
No way around it. If your in the latter category, better to spend more and change components till you hit your preferred sound. |
No one mentioned the Greatful Dead - Anthem of the Sun |
I am the caveman here, I don't believe in wire directionality of bare wire, as it relates to carrying a signal. |
geoff, I work for an electric utility. There is no consideration given to wire directionality when putting up power lines. Is the assumption that wire directionality matters in some situations, such as fuses and carrying a sound signal, but not others? Just askin.
George |
Geoff, is it your basic premise that the drawing of the metal through a hole in a die or draw plate to form the wire imparts a directionality to it? Not sure how this works. |
Someone earlier asked where is David Pritchard, I am also wondering the same thing.
I could not relate to his devotion for anything SR.
However his sincerity really came through to me and I hope everything is OK in his world. |
Good to hear regarding David! |
I think there is something that should be mentioned. It's judgmental to talk negatively about people who may not think that buying 10 or 15 fuses is worth the sonic improvement and may experience "cognitive dissonance". Some people may have more important things they value than to spend their hard earned on fuses.
And lets be real, soon there will be a SR platinum that "blows away" the SR blacks that "blows away" the SR reds that "blows away" whatever the one was before it.
I have been member of A'gon for longer than most, and have found this thread fascinating, thanks oregonpapa. In the end, it is the believers versus the non believers. The believers are well respected, but the non believers think they are perhaps experiencing at the worst mass hallucinations or at best the effects of cleaning their fuse holders. While among the non believers are some of the most technically respected on this site, it is obvious to the believers that their systems are not resolving enough or their hearing not up to par to appreciate the improvements the fuses make. And of course some of the more socially polite non believers whose name we will not mention (ALMARG) are allowed to present their cases with diplomatic immunity, others of not as polite stuture have been cast off the island.
May we all be happy and healthy in the New Year! |
I don't see any flaw in Al's discussion points. None whatsoever. |
Exactly! 😀
Hah!
You mean the "In fact, I'd go so far as to say your arguments would probably sway almost anyone, especially a newbie, who has not already heard directionality for himself."
You big bully! Even throwing in an unhappy Emoticon. Really though, other than in this fuse thread, directionality has not been often discussed (relatively speaking) except regarding what direction the arrows on cables that have them should be pointed.
I wonder, again other than pertaining to this fuse thread, how many people have actually heard a directionality difference? One in 5, one in 10, one in 500, two in 100,000?
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Thank you Charles, its good to know there wasn't something simple and big picture I was missing.
And I wasn't checking to see if Geoff might have exaggerated his facts a little to make a point, I know he would never do that.
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Hi Charles and anyone who cares to chime in,
This may be the wrong place for me to post this, but since this tread has also become partly a directionality discussion pardon me if I do, and its short.
I have not tried the fuses, admittedly because my system is not resolving enough to discern the differences. And if you could see my set up what a hassle to get into my components. First you move the component cabinet and to move that take down the new large screen tv, then all the interconnects are removed from the preamp, not done lightly.
My question is, other than with these fuses, have you heard the directionality with cables with the frequency that Geoff implies?
Thanks,
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Knowledge Expert definition - For my way of looking at things they are Al and Ralph - Although I probably should not inject my interpretation of their discussions, which is what I have done. So Al and Ralph, sorry if I have misinterpreted your thoughts.
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tommy, no mater what side of the fence you are on, I think the reason non fusers keep coming back to this thread is the curiosity of reading about people hearing differences that knowledge experts have explained are not possible. |
Not directed towards anyone, just a general comment.
I'm still old school and believe that when someone has the need to repeatedly (emphasized) change interconnects, speaker cables, power cables, fuses, power outlets, power supplies, etc. its not refinement they need, but a major change in the overall sound of their system. A change that can only be achieved by changing components. At a certain point saying how much you love your sound and then doing anything to change it under the guise of refinement seems disingenuous and bound to fail. IMHO
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Hi Frank, Thank you for that very clear explanation. I have often read about your new music discoveries and your love of music does come through your posts. On your and Charles' suggestion I have gone to utube and watched/listened to a number of the tunes presented in this thread. I do hope that there are not too many people who read these threads who are getting caught up in an endless upgrade cycle because they think it is the only way to audio nirvana. A number of posters (not necessarily on this thread) have not so subtly insinuated that if you haven't owned countless pieces of costly equipment you cannot have the knowledge to know if you have a good system. Lets face it, good equipment is astronomically priced compared to when we were younger. The greatest tweak of all is to be able to be satisfied with what you have and as you said, enjoy the music. George
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Actually, and please feel free to correct me if I am wrong, but I believe there were two problems, the smallest was that the results were not measurable, but the largest was that it is not possible for an object not in the music signal path to impact the music signal (sound). Other than the possible impact of allowing more or less power to the unit than the stock fuse. I could have it all wrong though, and don't want to rock the boat (titanic). |
Again, this thread is like a bunch of like minded guys sitting around the local bar discussing a common interest. Every once in a while "someone" has a little too much amber liquid and gets out of hand. Once sobered up, we all hope "he" comes back at a later date and will be civil. So far ... no luck ... Yea, but Frank, its your turn to finally pick up the tab. |
Hi fleschler,
If you have the time, I would love to see a picture/pictures of what it looks like to have 42,000 records and CDs. I can't even imagine.
Thanks,
George
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Just another step on road to Tru-Fi. |
Did my ex wife start posting here? |
ebm, you have tried them and they improved the sound of your excellent system? |
There ain't nothing scarier than a fuser lynch mob getting all riled up. |
Its also important to have the fuse installed by a virgin with no impure thoughts. |
Actually, nyame, I find Wolf quite an interesting person whose experience in the music world and with equipment I like to hear about. So maybe you can read between the lines. |
Hi fleschler, would you mind expanding on what you mean by your Dynaco ST70 is not a conventional amp? I have a couple and was wondering if you replaced the fuse in it and if so which rating did you use? If so, was there much of an impact?
Thanks
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Thanks fleschler for your response. I agree with you that so far the Mullard EL34s are the way to go for my amps. I would assume that you are referring to the old production Mullards. |
Thank you Geoff, it is a solon's highest honor to serve. |
Oregonpapa,
I have found this to be the most interesting thread in the 16 years of my reading A'gon. It has had it all.
1. People accusing others of being shills for SR.
2. The only person who I really thought might be a shill ended up being a doctor, who really loves his mom. And I still wonder about him shill wise.
3. Tons of audiophiles claiming the fuses improve their systems beyond belief without having a clue why.
4. Lots of people wondering if in fact the audiophiles in number 3 above want to be part of something so much that they are imagining changes.
5. The bad bad guy George
6. The medium bad guy who is no longer to be seen here mapman.
7. The really good bad guy Al.
8. The affable ex salesman who started it all (mr papa).
9. An ex NASA guy whose main role other than to discuss wire directionality is not exactly clear.
10. Bees vs graphene.
11. Highly resolving systems costing megabucks that can make the difference clear versus the obviously cheap systems that cannot.
12. The oft quoted mantra that with the 30 day return policy what do you have to lose. The antagonist stating that having to go up in fuse amp ratings you probably will lose your house when it burns down.
I hate to say this, but I have to agree with Geoff, it was the back and forth that has made this so interesting. It is likely that without the dissenters this thread would have dried up long ago. That is not meant to diminish this excellent thread at all, just that you can only say how great a fuse is so many times in so many ways.
Thanks again Oregonpapa and I hope you see the humor in it.
George
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Hey wolf, totally an oversight I forgot to mention:
"And the bad bad guy with tons of experience in the real world, who tried to keep it real, wolf." |
Charles, you have been and are the solid and reasonable rock for this thread. Very nice to have met you sir. |
Thanks for the nice comments. |
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Saw john with catfish hunter many years ago in NY in basically an old warehouse where you sat on the ground. Very hot summer day, of course not air conditioned, they strolled out and sat on the stage floor with nothing but a large bottle of whiskey and ice bucket. They just drank and talked, and whatever they were talking about (those were the days) Belushi would periodically ask if there were any questions. He then would throw handfuls of ice at anyone that tried to ask a question. |
geoff "You may not remember but I am someone who likes to stick to the facts of the case and avoid personalities." Captain, fire the photon torpedos, this cannot be our Earth, we must be in an alternate universe and need to blast our way home through the space time continuum. Jitter
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You know, now that I am thinking about it, there are a lot of at least as bright as the average lightbulb people here. It would be something if we had an actual working scientist in a lab among us who could add a real analysis of what the physical properties are of some of the items we kick back and forth. Fuses, cables, receptacles. Kind of get past the physical aspect hurdle up front. |
Maybe an electron microscope would help? |
^^^ A very good suggestion. However, I believe in another thread someone posted links to pictures of SR black receptacles that were identical visually to those sold at Lowes, but the SRs were treated with 2,000,000 volts and a graphene coating. Which is just to say there might not be a visual difference, |
We're not ADHD all the time. Maybe... |
Is it that the wire drawing process results in crystals with edges that snag and slow the photons when the wire is inserted in the wrong direction? |
The only way to assure 100% break in of a fuse is to play Helter Skelter backwards. |
O'papa, I would wish you luck but you are not going to need it. You'll be asking for your laptop to see what going on at the A'gon before you know it.
George |
