I have see several recommendations against tube amps powering certain speakers. But which speakers are known to really like time amps, especially high powered tube amps?
So who’s doing this ? People have rightly posted that speaker impedance and phase angle characteristics are factors that require awareness and consideration. This is true as they greatly influence how successfully a tube amplifier will pair with them.
If you rad through the responses, you can see what I am saying. I do not want to call anyone out so I left my comment as such.
As far as impedance and phase angle, maybe matching a95-99db speaker has benefits but overall unless you are using 100-200wpc tube amp on one of these speakers, a good designed tube amp will do what it takes. But I am taking class A designed tube amps. We have a few AB designed tube amps from well know manufacturers in our Listening Room and that is what most people have experience with. Out 40wpc mono blocks drove the YG Acoustic Carmel speakers with ease and outperformed the $16K Class D amps no contest.
@noske Rogue Audio for one. Tube amps aren’t going to double power like you suspect, they are not the same as a solid state amp. Power is going to nominally the same at each tap but the output voltage will change. Of course, it’s best to consult the amp manufacturer for their opinion but I’ve had zero issues driving <8ohm loads on my 8 ohm transformer taps on my tube amp.
@carlsbad Those electrostatics are pictured under the definition of "listening fatigue" in the dictionary, I think. Still, a step up from any box.
As for Maggies, do what I did with my customers back in the day. Have your dealer bring a pair out, set them up properly IN YOUR ROOM, which is the most important part of any system, and see if you feel you have the best possible reproduction of what the source provides, which may or may not be very good.
If you don’t like them, buy what YOU LIKE. You asked what speakers were good with tube amps. I answered as honestly as I could. Since no one else seems to have suggested Maggies--OK, I didn’t read EVERY post--I did. I don’t see how this makes this a "Magneplaner thread," but if you feel that way, then I guess it is.
@hilde45Sorry, I don’t know those speakers as well as I know Maggies. OP should have his dealer bring out one of each until he finds WHAT HE LIKES best.
Out 40wpc mono blocks drove the YG Acoustic Carmel speakers with ease and outperformed the $16K Class D amps no contest.
I do not doubt your outcome. I’m a very firm believer in the sonic attributes of high quality class A amplifiers. Not to everyone’s approval these days given the “Green” mindset prevalent in these times. I suspect that your class A tube amplifier sounds fantastic!
@tubeguy76 I am still trying to figure out Ralph's paper on the issue, and other sources - I am happy to stand corrected.
When I bought my EL34 push-pull Class A tube amp from the bloke who made it he specifically asked what ohms my speakers were. I said rated at 8, with a brief dip to 6 somewhere.
That's fine, it won't stress anything.
Because he also included a 4 ohm tap in tediously hand-winding the transformers.
In the foreseeable future I may consult with him about making a tube pre-amp, and I'll be much more prepared to ask him difficult questions and actually discuss issues.
I bought a tube amp that had 4 ohm taps and speakers that were 6 ohm nom. Speakers had an impedance dip into the 3 ohm range. Ran them for the first year on the 4 ohm taps and they sounded fine. Then for kicks, tried the 8 ohm taps and never went back.T
...Until I bought Tannoys. Much better match for my amp.
Consider a high quality single driver speaker like Voxativ, if you’re searching for musical speed and detail — especially with 300B driven SET. Zu audio can be driven nicely with a low power amplifier but offers more bass with its powered woofer.
All the “classic” Klispch speakers, some Altec Lancing horn speakers and some of the older JBL horn speakers. I’m not familiar with the newer ones. But like others have said, it’s not all about the watts.
Well considering the OP has a pair of 350 wpc monoblocks I daresay he can pair just about any speaker he likes with them. Obviously some speakers are more tube friendly than others but that's a lot of power to throw at them. @lewl28If you truly like your Sopra's just enjoy them.
Considering they are McIntosh they would probably match best with some highly resolving speakers. I find McIntosh to be very heavy on the bass and midrange and very shy on details… the choice in speakers is really important to get the most out of what the signal chain can provide.
Thanks for the replies. I have Focal Scala Utopia Evos. They sound really good. I wished that I had bumped up to the Maestros though. I just didn’t know if there was a general type of speaker to steer toward. Magico S5 and M2s sounded good. So did Harbeth SLH5+HDs. I didn’t think that the Sonys Faber Serafino or Amati Traditions sounded that great with the C2700/MC3500 Mk2s surprisingly.
I love my Spatial Audio M3 Hologram loudspeakers. I power them with either a Carver 275, our 2011 Carver EL84 or my E.A.R. Yoshino V20. They sound great.
With high powered tube amps, I don't think there are many restrictions on what speakers can be used with the amp. The issue with low impedance speakers has to do with the interaction between the amp output impedance and the impedance of the speaker affecting the frequency response. It is NOT a safety issue because tube amps can safely run into very low impedances (even a dead short). If a 4 ohm rated speaker remained at 4 ohms across the entire frequency band, there would be no change in the frequency response resulting from the output impedance of the amp. But that is never the case, and the closer the output impedance of the amp is to the impedance of the speaker, the greater the interaction with respect to frequency response. Tube amps tend to have a higher output impedance than solid state amps meaning that there is more of a tendency to affect the frequency response. While it is generally better to avoid such interactions and the attendant frequency response changes, sometimes these changes can actually sound good. Hence, higher and flatter impedance curve speakers tend to be better for use with most tube amps.
For my personal taste, I generally tend to like low-powered tube amps over high-powered tube amps. There are many high-powered tube amps that sound lean and brittle (hard) to my ears such that if I really required a lot of power, I would go with solid state (the sin of most solid state amps is that they sound dead and unengaging at low volume levels, but this is better than being hard). Hence, tube friendly, to me, means a speaker is both reasonably efficient and has a reasonably high impedance.
I have not heard your McIntosh amp and I am not familiar with the sound of EL509 tubes, so I can only offer very general advice. If you know the output impedance of your amp, that might help you decide whether it matters at all if a speaker is "tube friendly." It the impedance is under one ohm (equivalent to a damping factor of 8), it can probably work well with just about any speaker on the market. If it has a damping factor above 8, there is even less restrictions. Below 8, you may have meaningful frequency response swings with lower impedance speakers, such as those rated at 4 ohms.
@pinotnoir, greetings. I too have Soundlab speakers and have been waiting patiently for my pair of Atma-Sphere MA 2s for 6 months. We have a very special situation. Our speakers range from 30 ohms in the bass to less than 1 ohm at 20 kHz. The Atma-Spere amps put out the same power regardless of impedance, perfect for the Soundlabs. Most solid state amps are on their knees at 30 ohms. It takes a real SS bruiser to drive this load well, think 300 watts and up. These amps can really not be compared to "normal" tube amplifiers.
An amplifier is not supposed to have a "sound." In my experience the very best tube amplifiers and the very best SS amplifiers produce very similar performance with the appropriate load. Given that the speaker/room is the weakest link in just about all systems you choose the speaker that matches your room and your wife best then buy an amp that drives that particular load well. Buying speakers to match your amp is folly.
Give the Golden Ear Triton 1r a listen. They are 92 db sensitivity, relatively benign impedance curve, and each contain a 1600w amp to handle the bass which makes driving them with tubes very easy. I drive mine with a pair of 50w Cary monoblocks and couldn't be happier.
I drive my Wilson Maxx 2 with tubes because I prefer the sound to using a very good solid state amp. Tube amps tend to be lower output power so you need speakers with fairly high sensitivity.
Electrostatic speakers are wonderful if you like them, I have heard dozens driven with every type of amplification. Sorry I've not heard one I liked. It's purely personal I know however, as more than one HI fi expert and reviewer has observed, "choose which type of fake you like", nothing in your lounge room sounds like the real thing, good even great, particularly to you but still fake.
Any model by the long defunct Equation brand. Have some Equation 7 and honestly play better than MANY of the Harbeth, Spendor & Rogers speakers I've been used to. If you come across a set, buy'em.
If you like the sound of Maggies, but don't want or can't afford a 300 watt tube amp, look into the Eminent Technology LFT-8. Like Maggies, the LFT employs planar-magnetic drivers. Unlike the Maggies, the LFT is a tube-friendly loudspeaker, it's modulus of impedance 8 ohms and above. And if you bi-amp (two pair of binding posts are provided: one for the p-m drivers---180Hz up, another for the woofer), the impedance of the panels is 11 ohms, even better for tube amps.
Klipsch KG 4s are a winning hand with tube amps. I sold mine and do miss them now even though I have a set of Klipsch Fortes I and its little brother the Quartets.
Don’t listen to folks who haven’t tried any given combination. I ran my ATC SCM40 V2’s with a Line Magnetic 805ia and it was bliss—sounded convincingly like ATC’s own P2 which I also owned. There are class a high current tube amps that will drive many of the 6-8 ohm speakers out there easily.
The only thing with tubes is that they tend to lead you down the high efficiency speaker path at some point. I drive my Tannoy Turnberry GR’s with a 14 watt Line Magnetic and my Pure Audio Project Duets with a 1.5 watt SET amp.
I would just say that tube amps easier drive speakers than SS ones. I was first surprised how my well my 5 watts SET amp drives my Thiel CS6 speakers, 87db, 4 ohms, no issues at all.
It does not have so be 8 ohms or above. My speakers are 4 ohm, but they are very, very flat and very well designed. I bought them to use with an ss amp. The first time I heard them with a tube amp, I promptly sold the ss amp.
The statement with emphasis added is false. If you want the most out of your tube investment dollar, stay well away from speakers that are 4 Ohms or less, even if they have a flat impedance curve.
To drive a 4 Ohm speaker you need a 4-Ohm tap on the output transformer. When you use that tap, the amp will make slightly less power and may well lose an octave of bass. Distortion will be higher too.
Even if you have solid state amps, if high fidelity is your goal, 4 Ohm speakers are a bad idea, simply because all amplifiers, tube or solid state, make more distortion into lower impedances.
As a special rule of thumb, if you are looking at an '8 Ohm' speaker that employs dual woofers, ask the manufacturer if the woofer array is also 8 Ohms. Its quite common for speaker designers to put two 8 Ohm woofers in parallel, producing a 4 Ohm load in the bass, while the rest of the speaker is 8 Ohms, and then say the speaker is '8 Ohm compatible' or some such nonsense.
If in doubt, avoid speakers with dual woofers unless you get a very good audition in your home.
there are many many, in actuality, if one goes beyond the super high efficiency speakers made to be powered by flea watt tube amps
but my favorite dynamic speaker make is proac, especially the larger response series and their more recent descendants - stewart tyler (rip) famously voiced his groundbreaking response series models with audio research tube amps
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