A bit of a delayed follow up to my original post...
Thank you all for your kindness and generosity to share your experiences and insight!
Sometimes things take a different route than anticipated. I was offered a generous trade-in opportunity for the Luxman L-509X from Dedicated Audio toward the purchase of a new, factory sealed, Hegel H600 integrated amp. This is Hegel's new top-of-the-line reference integrated amp. It pairs with my Dynaudio Confidence speakers really well.
I have been enjoying many albums for a couple of weeks now through it, and am very impressed. It is also allowing me to simplify my system a bit and sell my streamer and DAC due to it's outstanding built-in capabilities.
So for now, I am sticking with an integrated amp.
So many choices and opportunities with this hobby, it's fun to try new things.
Thanks everyone!
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Too many unwanted puppies in the world, already.
Why support breeding more?
Adopt!!!
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What's the sensitivity of the speakers you have? If I had to do it again I would pick a tube amplifier that can run on low wattage with speakers that are higher sensitivity. There are a lot of very high-quality tube amplifiers that use just a few tubes, operate with a lot less watts, which are worthy of a lot of attention. I have speakers that require a lot of power and I biamp with a McIntosh 901 and that's an ideal configuration.
And if all else fails I would buy a puppy.
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@jpipes
No disrespect to not being able to answer your question directly. I have not had any of those specific amps but did use older Parasound for several years. I had the HCA 2200ii and then the HCA3500. All being John Curl designs may mean the older ones have similar sound characteristics to the JC5. I was always curious about tubes and chose Audio Research and fell in love immediately compared to the Parasound. Since then I have compared a CODA and McIntosh to the REF 75 and the REF 75 was more detailed, musical and natural sounding. If the JC5 is similar to the others, I think you owe it to yourself to check out an ARC REF 75. The non-SE seem to be around $4000 and the SE $5000. They are still very well respected amps with solid resale value. If the sound wasn't for you then you would sell it and move on. The REF 75 are fairly simple to maintain and with only 6 tubes total aren't too expensive to retube either. Whether it is to try something completely different like this or not, following that used strategy with patience to possibly resell will hopefully find you what you are looking for.
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The new mcintosh class d amp is not bad either 500wpc in 8 and 1 k I. 4 ohms mi1502. I bought b stock 3200$
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I loved my Moon audio amp; it had a beautiful sound.
I've also owned Bryston, however currently love and recommend the Parasound JC 5, 100% can't go wrong, awesome music, and amazing craftsmanship. Holds its value in case you upgrade or change your mind.
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Good info @jpipes . The only McIntosh piece I have had in my home was the C2700 preamp, and I found it veiled. I will keep a more open mind about their amps!
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I am Dynaudio customer with C2's. I have long been a Krell fan and listened to the latest SimAudio amplifiers at AXPONA and they are very nice. I do NOT believe they are any better than the latest Krell series. If you can find a nominally used Krell 300XD (and I believe you CAN) you will save yourself multiple thousands as this amp just kills it and will stash dup against most anything in the 15-30K price category. You can score for under 10K I believe
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I too am going with soix. Subjectively should have been stated, and all would have been fine. My best, MrD.
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@jpipes
You can mix and match McIntosh pieces just like any other brand as long as they are electrically compatible. In fact the Mac preamps are IMHO the weak link to an overly warm, rounded off sound.
Power amps are where they excel and they do it all day long. I run mine with a Cary Audio tube preamp and am constantly amazed with the clarity and sound stage.
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If you decide on Pass, skip the X150.8 and go directly to the X250.8. Had the 150 for a while and traded it for the 250, no comparison. Don’t really know why they even added it to their line up. Owned 3 different Parasound products and while ‘nice’, they all had to go, unoffensive is about the best description I can offer. The only real negative I can think of re: the Pass is its sheer size and weight. It is a beast. The ‘heat’ thing is overstated in my opinion. Unless you put it in a closet, it’s just not that big a deal. SQ? Nothing I can think of NOT to like. I understand personal preferences etc., but there’s really nothing it doesn’t do extremely well. Coupled with a nice tube pre ( my First Sound for example ), the combo is just dead quiet, dynamic, detailed, sweet, full, magical. Comparatively affordable, US made and serviced, and if you believe reviewers, the ‘real deal’.
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Aesthetix Mimas is fantastic ;-) i’ve setup three systems w those…. finesse and drive.
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I have Dynaudio Heritage Specials. I drive them with an Aestheix Mimas. Plenty of power. Hybrid tubes in the preamp..If you can find a preowned one it would be in your price range. Great match with my speakers!
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@squared80 Thinking your amp is better because it may measure better in some ways is denial mixed with a healthy dose of sheer ignorance. Amir is calling your name hard.
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@soix someone's triggered. And in denial.
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@soix doesn’t know the difference between objective measurements and subjective opinions. Sit down, son. You’re embarrassing yourself.
@squared80 First, I’m not your son so you can just stuff that back where it came from. Second, you said your amp was “objectivity [sic] better” and didn’t qualify that you meant just based measurements — there’s an important difference there. Last, if you think your amp is better and should be chosen over the others as you recommended because it might throw off a good measurement here or there you’re better off over at ASR where you can worship at the altar of Amir. Talk about embarrassing yourself, there it is in spades.
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Thank you all so much for your generous insight and ideas!
@fastfreight-Thank you for this suggestion, I have not learned about this brand of audio gear yet. Always fun to learn about something new!
@larryh111-If I could afford darTZeel I would sure consider it. I've never seen one of their integrates close to my budget range though...but it sure is very cool looking!
@avanti1960-Great to learn the new McIntosh gear sounds good. I kind of feel like you have to go in all the way with McIntosh if you go with any of it. Unfortunately the look and feel is not my preference, but thank you.
@audioman58-Aesthetix is definitely a brand I have my eyes on, but again their gear typically exceeds my budget. But very impressive.
It's especially helpful to learn of fairly consistent feedback about PS Audio, Parasound, Simaudio, and Pass Labs. I think I'll eliminate Parasound and PS Audio from the search (although I do own a Parasound JC3+ phono preamp). I think maybe a combo of AR preamp and Pass Labs amp is at the forefront of my search at this stage.
Hope everyone has a great Memorial Day weekend!
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@soix doesn't know the difference between objective measurements and subjective opinions. Sit down, son. You're embarrassing yourself.
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I was in a similar boat a few years ago and cycled through many amps when I was looking to upgrade in power from my Pass Labs XA25. Pass XA30.8 which sounds identical to the 150.8 was too overtly smooth and euphoric. The Parasound JC5 had exceptional low end grunt but its midrange didn’t soar like the XA25.
I wound up with a McIntosh MC 312 which does it all, solid low end, gobs of power and dynamics and a supremely clean midrange that sounds even better than the glorious Pass XA 25. Treble has exceptional detail and air without a trace of graininess. The new Macs are the real deal.
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Why not just get a Buckeye Purifi. Objectivity better than any you’ve listed.
@squared80 Objectively better? Really? So you’re the end-all, be-all authority and have compared the Buckeye directly to the amps listed by the OP? Just because you like an amp doesn’t make it “objectively better” if for no other reason that we all have different tastes so there’s no one objective standard. Get over yourself.
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You listen at about the same levels as I do but I don't consider it loud. Church is that loud.
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Why not just get a Buckeye Purifi. Objectivity better than any you've listed.
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Aesthetix is a brand I sold for years and still has outstanding integrity ,they
wind their own transformers and enclose them in a faraday type cage to contain any magnetic fields , they build a quality product
even their integrated Mimas has a Hybrid Vacuum tube preamp section .
Coda too has Some nice products in their upper line ,who btw we’re Pass labs engineers before Pass went independant.
your speakers are what model and effficiency ? Very important to know.
i have 40+ years building system synergy .I owned $6 figure Audio systems
but technologies have moved on even class D look at AAvic from
Audio group Denmark ,they have great newer technologies ,in part using multiples
of Tesla coils to dramatically lower noise floor and many other things .
I myself am looking to upgrade but not until our home additions are completed
being married means Audio is not 1st ,since I no longer own a Audio store .
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British Audiophile loved Atoll integrated - in300 @ $4500 new. tilts warm with good bass control. For amp only, Atoll has am300 for $3900 new. Mos-fet designs, so tend to be slightly warmer.
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I suggest you forget separates and consider the darTZeel CTH 8550 especially if you like the form factor of integrated design. From inputs, including the world class phono stage to the outputs everything is designed to maximize purity and deliver rich music with full dynamics and clarity. I have churned a lot of equipment over the years and when I got the CTH 8550 I was amazed as it outperformed all the separates I'd tried including the AR reference 6 pre amp and 610T power amps, Pass Labs and so forth. darTZeel is expensive but if you off load what you have and combine it with your budget the difference should be manageable. The Sound Advocate did a great review including interviews with Harv Delétraz you will find interesting. Good luck.
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Hello @jpipes , so many choices and opinions! While never with your speakers, I have owned and quickly sold BHK 300’s which were noisy and dull. I have owned and sold Parasound JC1+ monos, which were also lacking on sparkle. I have demo’d the Luxman, which, I did not prefer.. I have heard many Pass amps, which I found warm and pleasing, but not magical for me. I have not had the pleasure of Coda or Sim / Moon or Accuphase but bet they are good. I have had the Benchmarks in my system and I thought nothing special except small and less expensive. For me, the clear winner was Audionet amps. The entire line shines but the magic really comes starting with the Max amps. These were well more resolving in a pleasant way than anything I had tried or heard. Much more sparkle on top, but in a non fatiguing way. Very full spectrum. They occasionally can be seen used for around 18k, more than most discussed here but to me so worth it. I now have my Max’s upstairs, and have the amazing Heisenbergs in my reference system. All here is just my opinion, but I do recommend you listen to Audionet.
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Personally, I feel the Luxman 509 is a little analytical to my ears, especially with those Dynaudio speakers. I agree with those posters who recommend a tube preamp to warm things up.
I love the look of the accuphase, and people who’ve heard them seem to have great things to say about them, but they just seem overpriced in the USA. Their USA distributor seems hell bent on price gouging. It’s a shame.
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other ideas: replace integrated with integrated? Simaudio is wonderful stuff; Moon 641? Also, Modwright KWH 225i (hybrid). I suspect both would sound a little warmer than your Luxman.
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Oops......Goodwin Scientific, GS2M.....😉
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<.005% THD+N performance, .1dB flat from 3Hz to 50kHz, full differential. Half the cost of Mac and only 27 lbs for 200W.....something to consider....
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@mgw-Thank you for this follow up!
@12many-I agree, it is quite a deal. I hope you really enjoy the amp!
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I have not heard all the amps on your list, but with the 50% price drop on BHK 250, it would be hard to beat with the new warranty and not having to wonder if you are buying someone else's problems and the return policy. I picked one up about a month ago and I am keeping it. I like the sound after it is broken in. IMO, the tubes do add to the sound and you can roll them to adjust the sound slightly to suit your tastes.
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@jpipes mine is the V1. The differences between the 600 and 700 series V1 and V2 seem to be as much about minor changes to components driven by supply as anything else. The major difference between the 700i and 700i V2 seems to be that the transformers are encased in the latter.
Either way, both sound fabulous.
By the way "I currently have the 700i and did not notice a huge difference between that and the 8-series pre and the 860A when I demoed than back to back." In my original post in case you did not get that from the context.
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I owned the CODA CSib integrated amp and the KRELL K-300i integrated. Both are really good as others have stated. However, separates are better. I tried a lot of preamps (including the CODA 07x) with the KRELL Duo 175XD, CODA #8, CODA #16, and Benchmark AHB2 amps.
I found that the best combo for me was the Holo Audio Serene and Benchmark LA4/HPA4 preamps with any of the 4 amps listed above. An added bonus was that they were cheaper than most of the other choices I was considering. My choice was based on the preamp adding very little to the sound since the amps were so good.
Only caveat, I may not use either preamp with the SimAudio 860 V2. Not sure if that would work unless the speakers were a bit warm.
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The PS Audio M1200s would be killer- they come up periodically ~ @ $3500-4K, or LSA Voyager GaN 350 (dual mono single chassis) ~ $1500
Both have excellent reviews
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@mgw-This is helpful, thank you. Is your Simaudio 700i the V1 or V2 version?
@audiotroy @mm1tt77-Thank you this good info about Coda. I think I am going to separates but the CSiB seems impressive.
@lalitk-Great to learn about Accuphase, thank you. I was unaware they would sound warmer than Luxman. They appear very similar in appearance and in specs. I think a preowned Accuphase may be within my budget. Good to know-thanks.
@yyzsantabarbara-Great intel-thank you! The Coda No. 16 looks like a beast! Beyond my budget, but wow what an amazing looking amp. Happy listening!
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@jpipes if you are looking for a touch of magic trying a tube pre with a SS amp, class A sounds like it could be the recipe you are looking for.
Pass, Coda, Newer Krell XD all could be a good fit. The Coda CSiB integrated can be biased to different levels of overall watts while putting out the first watts in class A. I had the CSiB in my system, really hard to beat. Krell 300i Integrated was also amazing, Class A first 90 Watts. Also had a Prima Luna Evo 400 Integrated, that’s all Tubes, was good but preferred the CSiB or Krell. I ended up with a Tube Pre and SS Class A amp combo and it’s the sweet spot for me but will be a bit more $$ than an integrated. There are also some great Class D designs out now that have captured some of that tube like magic that are worth a look.
Good Luck!
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we were a luxman dealer years ago one of the very few integrated amplifiers that could beat it was the coda csib
the csib through a wider soundstage and had a touch better bass and dynamics
Dave and Troy
audio intellect NJ
coda Dealer
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The Simaudio Moon gear is brilliant. Drives difficult speakers really well and with easy loads, like my speakers, they just seem to open out the sound and simply sound fabulous. I currently have the 700i and did notice a huge difference between that and the 8-series pre and the 860A when I demoed than back to back.
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My listening experience with SimAudio has made me think of them as a neutral amp. if the Dynaudio Confidence 20 sounds good with the SimAudio then I would try it with the much cheaper Benchmark AHB2 stereo amp. The AHB2 monos are not likely needed for the Dynaudio Confidence 20.
This is not a very forgiving amp, so whatever is upstream needs to be good along with the speaker cable. You can get this amp for 2-2.5k used and can easily sell it.
I owned a CODA #8 in the past and that amp can be found for under $5k. If the speaker is not too difficult to drive, then I take the AHB2 over the #8. I own the CODA #16 and like that more than the AHB2.
The SimAudo 860 V2 is getting cleared out but I do not see a big drop in price. I take the AHB2 over the 860 V2 for an easy to drive speaker.
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“Maybe I am looking for a bit more midrange warmth? ”
Consider Accuphase Integrated for that mid-range warmth. I have auditioned both Luxman (among others) and picked Accuphase E-650. 4 plus years of ownership and have no desire to upgrade except move up in Accuphase lineup.
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@missioncoonery-Thank you for this insight. I failed to mention I have one JL Audio sub in place and agree it is helpful.
@gramophone_canada-Thank you for this suggestion. I was unaware of Audia Flight out of Italy. Beautiful looking gear. I appreciate learning about new companies to me in this hobby-thank you!
@chocaholic-Yes, this is another decision to make. I am considering a tube preamp, maybe a AR LS28, or VAC Renaissance Mark V. I prefer balanced inputs, but really appreciate what I have learned about Backert Labs as well. If an Aesthetix Calypso would appear in my price range that would be near the top of my wish list too. Your handle here on Audiogon is awesome!
Thank you all again for sharing your experiences so generously!
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I can’t say how it’ll sound with your speakers, but I love my Parasound JC5. It runs in class A for the first 25 watts, which in your situation of a lower listening volume may really pay off. I find my JC5 shines everywhere and it’s very satisfying.
Highly recommended and is in the used price range for about $4K-5K.
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I had the BHK 300s and moved to a top end Luxman amp. They are very different from each other. BHKs are more of a bottom up amp, with plenty of foundational bass where the Luxman is more top down, with an exceptional mid and high range. Only you can decide which of thee (if either) works best with your speakers, equipment and room. Good luck.
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Nad c298 power amp. Or, buy two Nad c268's and bridge them for 300 watts per channel. Mine sound great!
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jpipes,
I doubt if you'll get a sim audio 860A V1 for that price the Simaudio W8 used is selling for $5,000 US.
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@jpipes - I wouldn’t say everything Ayre does is correct from an absolute measurement perspective. I’ve read detractors which I believe was centered around a relatively high damping factor or distortion. I’m not sure. I also don’t care... they sound really good. :)
From a purely personal and subjective point of view, Ayre and Pass make different aesthetic choices to the sound. I’m not about to debate it based on measurements, I just happen to like one a lot more than the other. I suspect others will also find themselves naturally preferring one to the other, and I’ve got no issue with that at all.
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Thank you all so much for taking the time to share your opinions and experiences! I do not post often, but have tried to learn much for the community here in the relatively short amount of time I've enjoyed this hobby.
@soix-Yes! You said it well-thank you. I guess it's a bit hard for me to put into words what I am hoping to hear. At my local shop, Music for Pleasure, here in St. Louis the Dynaudio Confidence 20s sounds "magical." They were using high priced Simaudio gear that I can not afford. So trying to reclaim as much of that emotional experience with gear I can afford. Thank you for the recommendations!
@erik_squires-Thank you for the encouragement. Actually many of your posts helped me land eventually on the L-509X. It's been a journey, and I've enjoyed learning along the way. If I can get to a point that I can purchase Ayre I'd love to try it. Everything I've learned about their approach to sound lines up with what seems best from an engineering perspective IMO.
@mickeyb-Thank you for the encouragement to consider Simaudio. I have been concerned maybe Simaudio is a brand that dealers sell because of a large markup rather than it actually being great gear. Their prices just seem high to me compared to other brands. Glad to learn you feel it is a positive match outside of a dealership.
@ghdprentice-Thank you for this input about Pass Labs, this lines up with what other have shared with me.
Interesting no one has commented about he PS Audio BHK stereo 250. On paper this appears to have many positive attributes. I've only owned a couple of PS Audio items so far, a power conditioner and the Stellar Phono Preamp. I did not keep the phono preamp. It was fine, but I'd describe it as neutral, and maybe slightly bland compared to the Hegel V10 or Manley Labs Chinook. Are their amps kind of the same? Fine, but not great? Just wondering...
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Your choice (and investment) in preamp may be a more important consideration.
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