Quandary

I presume the dealer is East End HiFi. I’ve purchased speakers from that dealer and I have found the owner Chris a real standup guy. Why not get off the Merry-Go-Round that you’ve been on for all these years and try out a Tube amp!!

I would not really consider your speakers to be "very efficient", quick search puts them at, 90dB 1W/1M @ 4Ω (2.83V/1M) that's rather average efficiency. you may find the 30wpc not enough. The 60wpc amp he's offering for demo will be a better match IMO 

Yes, if you buy used and take your audiophile time it is not very little. Just bought VAC Avatar SE tube integrated in September and set of NOS tubes for it, so for the next three years I am definitely done. Unless something breaks and can’t be repaired. I will need one more quad of output tubes for this time period, though. $500.

$1500 is a great (annual) budget @inna . It can take you great heights :) I have learned so much here and benefitted from loaners and gifts from audiogon members, it improved my SQ experience 10-fold.

Considering that the apartment is quite big, no not too bad, and since I only spend about $1500 a year on audiophile stuff, I can manage for now. It's actually $375 average monthly electric bill.

@inna I understand. I am lucky to have solar and little heating and AC costs but when I lived in Boston, it was waaaay higher 😂

With heating too it is not so bad though for you

I wish I were, grislybutter, just living somewhere in New England. Heating is electric as well. Everything is quite expensive here, anyway. So, audiophile equipment is relatively cheap. This is a weak consolation, I know.

@inna  my electric bill is close to zero. Are you running a factory?

@rvpiano Sounds like a prudent decision. Upgrades are often a slippery slope, consuming a lot of time and money until you get your system where you want it.

At some point we just need to enjoy our system as it is. At least one seasoned poster here waits around 5 years after an upgrade before entertaining the next one.

Enjoy!

I think you made the right choice. Just as you stated: it’s one thing to charge for a demo (and we can argue over the amount), but it’s another to charge and not give you what you want. That’s weird to me. You cannot have a successful demo (of any thing) if the requirements are not met. 

The main reason for my decision was not just the $300 fee (which I agree might  probably be worth it considering the heft of the amps,) but also the fact that it’s a different amp that I’d be trying out PLUS the fact that I really LIKE the sound of my system as is.  The synergy between components is amazing and hard to come by.

Yeah, we waist much more. That electrical bill should be at least half of that, but there is no competition or effective government regulation. Many people just collect money not earn it. This dealer may not be the best there is but he does offer something potentially valuable and rewarding.

negativism ?

You mean people raising plausible criticism of the offer? I see you don't agree with that, and give a rationale, but it's not negativism. 

I don’t necessarily agree with all the negativism here. The key, which nobody has mentioned, is his pricing. Does he sell at MSRP? if so, then he should have plenty of margin to do the demo for free.

But if he sells at a discount to MSRP, then the $300 fee plus his price is still probably less than you would pay at a dealer that sells at full MSRP and offers free auditions. So do the math. Those here that have a dealer that gives free auditions are most likely paying top dollar for their purchases.

Frankly, the second option is a much more customer friendly price system.

Jerry

PS.   I would be reluctant to do the demo with a different amp. While you will be listening to less than a watt, I don't know if you can be sure that the first watt sounds the same in the 2 amps.

$300 problem, come on, my monthly electrical bill is higher than that, and it's not even a house.

Hey everyone! inna says that $300 is not a lot of money to waste so we should all just agree with him and delete this thread. How could we be so misguided?

Audiogon is a destroyer of legal commerce. I knew it.

$300 problem, come on, my monthly electrical bill is higher than that, and it's not even a house.

@cdc Luxman, D’Agostino, Vandersteen (yes, they make amps), Parasound, Sanders.

When I say I can recomend them that doesn’t mean they handle all loads, but rather they are at least neutral and tonally will not cause themselves to be noticed. Amps I can’t recommend are those that to my ears are objectionable, or that have a particular type of speaker they sound good with.

Ayre is a brand I really like... but also distinct enough I can't universally recommend.

@erik_squires 

There are amps I can recommend unconditionally for all listeners with all systems, and Pass is not one of them.

What amps would those be?

@oldaudiophile 

a listening position without a good amount of empty spade behind it (e.g.  6' or more - the more, the better - a couch or chair right up against a wall or bookcases or something like that would not be a good idea) leads to relatively intense listening fatigue and very quickly.

Very interesting. Thanks for sharing.

I CANCELED THE DEMO.

What it sounds like is the dealer wants to sell you the more expensive mono blocks by "not having" the lesser amp on hand. 

@rvpiano If I had the system you have now and the upgrade itch with 7 or 8 grand burning a hole in my pocket, I'd go out and spend some serious seat-time with a McIntosh MC152 or the MC312.  My guess is the MC152's 150 watts with its autoformer technology would be more than enough power for your Triton 1 and you'd save a couple grand in the process.  The MC312 would be a consideration if you ever planned on upgrading to speakers with less than an 8-ohm nominal load in the future.  One caveat, however.  Your Triton are designed with AMT tweeters.  In my experience, speakers like that sound best when there is a healthy amount of open or empty space behind the listening position or sweet spot, so to speak.  An audiophile friend and I have done serious seat-time with the Triton 2 and the Martin Logon Motion 60XTi and found that a listening position without a good amount of empty spade behind it (e.g.  6' or more - the more, the better - a couch or chair right up against a wall or bookcases or something like that would not be a good idea) leads to relatively intense listening fatigue and very quickly.  Professional reviewers have commented on this, as well.  The sound room or environment is often discounted or outright dismissed as one of, if not THE most, critical components of any sound system.

Good Luck!

@ghdprentice

Sounds like you’ve a lot of time to guess with someone else’s hearing and money. “I think it would likely make a profound”… more guessing, and you suspect… Fortunately for him the majority think the salesman is just that plus a dose of pushy, and is going to move on.
Did the op or anyone request or need to know the tax details on your wires… A comical question do you know or are you related to the blowhard salesman ?

+1 @oldaudiophile 

I agree with everything he said. The cautions, the proposals, etc. 

Remember this guy is a salesman.  He gets paid for selling things.  Take that $300 and go to an audio show, get a nice hotel room and go out for a nice dinner.  That's something you won't regret.

Thank all of you who have taken the time to post and give me doubts about this transaction.  Especially to one who has heard and liked my system.  You all may have convinced me to shun the deal.

@rvpiano OK, a little perspective.  Somebody wants to sell you something he doesn't have.  (Alarm bell number one.)  He says he's got a pair of monoblocks at twice the power of the stereo amp he doesn't have and is willing to set those up for you for 300 bucks, which would be credited toward the purchase price of the stereo amp he doesn't have.  (Alarm bell number two.)  Monoblocks at twice the power of a stereo amp from the same manufacturer are very likely going to sound, at least different, and probably better, smoother or more sophisticated than a stereo amp at half the power.  (Alarm bell number three.)  Is this guy's name Trump, by any chance?

Sounds, to me, like you've got the upgrade itch!

Why not tell this guy to get the amp he says he wants to sell you and let you know when he can come by and set that up for an in-home demo, AND FOR A LOT LESS THAN 300 BUCKS!  REALLY!  How much time does it take to swap out two stereo amps?  Whatever in-home demo customer service charge the two of you might agree on should, of course, be credited toward the purchase price of this amp he's so sure you'll like better than yours.  Also, you should insist on at least a couple weeks for this in-home demo time or whatever gives you a good 20 or 30 hours of serious seat-time time with this new amp.  The "deal" he's pitching to you now sounds, to me, like he's really trying to sell you those monoblocks which, I'll bet, are used or demo equipment.

Let conscious be your guide and good luck!

About the Pass 30.8: Why not buy it here, used, for $4500 and resell it if you don't like it? The amp is $7.2k new, so you won't lose very much on resale, especially if you bargain a little. 

This sounds similar to a senior phone scam. 

@OP -  you should find a dealer who will allow you a home audition of the amp for free. Offering to waive the $300 cost if you purchase is a clever sales tactic to subtly pressure you into buying in order to recoup your $300 outlay. In addition, it's ridiculous that he wants to charge to demo an amp which is not the actual model you would be buying. The Pass class A amps have a common sound character but they don't sound identical. However, as regards the comparisons , if you find your Benchmark slightly sterile/mechanical sounding, you will love the Pass. But you would need to hear exactly what you would be contemplating buying. The amps sound good from cold take an hour to warm up and about two hours to sound at their absolute best.

It’s telling that you were satisfied with your system, and he made the suggestion of an audition, not you. My dealer would never charge a fee for me to hear a component that he is trying to sell. Even if you can get by that, you are still not going to know after the audition because it’s not the same component.  You might get some approximation of the pass house sound but the component you’re going to audition will likely sound very different in your system than what he is actually trying to sell you. At a minimum, I would insist that you audition the particular component that is under consideration. 

The only problem is he doesn’t have the 30 watt amp in stock but would have to demo the Pass sound with 60 watt monoblocks.

For $300, dealer should at least let you listen to the amp in question.

When I had my Triton Ones, I used an Odyssey Stratos amp which at 150wpc and 60 amps of current was a perfect match to the Triton Ones. I moved on to the Triton Refs and now use a 300wpc McIntosh amp which puts me over the moon

Excellent point. Pass will be better but so could a lot of other amps. If you are on the amp upgrade path, are you willing to "settle" for the first one you hear.

If it was me, I would question how the Pass will blend with the Triton's digital bass amps.

The $300 fee is ridiculous regardless. Doesn’t seem like someone I would want to deal with. In addition, it doesn’t make sense that you demo one model and buy a different model for your system 🤔. This is like you test drive a BMW 7 series and buy a 3 series without driving it. 

As a manufacturer, I find it hard to think he wants to charge you $300 even if it does go to the purchase price.  Are you buying the amplifier new, used,?  Is he offering the amp at a discount or retail price.

IMO the Pass is a better sounding amplifier that the Benchmark which is about average sounding IMO.  BUT there are better sounding amplifiers than the Pass also.  Not sure about the price point but we offer a pre-production hybrid stereo amp for $6500 100/wpc that we believe is one of the best sounding amplifiers you can hear as a comparison.

Happy Listening.

The OP can buy a pair of Fosi V3 Monos with the 48 volt power supply for $280. They will do 120/240/330wpc@8/4/1ohms. Best bargain in amplification today!

@jasonbourne71 

To suggest that the Benchmark and the Pass will be indistinguishable is just ridiculous….

@rvpiano I owned XA30.8 and its a spectacular amp. It leaves class A after 30w if your system demands more power and produces over 100w into 8ohm in Class A/B so it has plenty of juice. 
It should be nice with the ribbons in the GE speakers. 

If you had determined on your own that it was time to audition a possible upgrade in amplification, would a 88-pound behemoth have made your short list?

To those who say (some in a snarky manner) that I am   being tricked into this purchase by a diabolical predator, let me say I am aware of the seduction.  Nobody is more gullible to suggestion and at risk for deception than an audiophile.  That’s why I created this post, to see what others had to say.  And I must say there are a myriad of opinions. 
 What is driving my interest in now trying out the amp is the posts of those who believe it will make a big difference in my system. It’s enough of a percentage to convince me to at least see what it’s like

There are some improper 100% Class A amps that run cool, KRELL DUO XD and the Westminster Labs amps. I owned the KRELL and never heard the Westminster Labs. 

@rvpiano I’ll going to play devil’s advocate here for a minute…

I want to say that a $300 home audition of an amplifier doesn’t sound that great…on the surface. But consider this - he will bring the amp, set it up, then come pick it up when you’re done with the audition. You don’t have to wrestle a 100lb amplifier into your room, out of the box and into your component rack, then back in the box after you’re done. He charges less than the Cable Company (they charge 5% + tax + shipping…they do apply this amount toward the purchase though). So if he does the same thing, I don’t think it’s ridiculous. 
However, you can pick up this XA30.8 amp used and do all this yourself. Sell it if you don’t like it.
As to sound quality…anything from Pass is more natural and warmer than the Benchmark stuff.
 

Just my thoughts. 

The Benchmark AHB2 and PASS sounds very different. If your speaker is little bright then the PASS could be better, though I would use a CODA or the KRELL DUO XD over PASS on a slightly bright speaker. I find PASS too warm for my tastes.

I have a slightly warm headphone heading my way soon, the RAAL 1995 Immanis. I have the Schitt Aegir Class A amp, which is similar to the PASS, as my amp for these phones with my tuners. It will not be a great match (just OK), The AHB2 would have been perfect because it can blend into that warmth, unfortunately, I recently sold the AHB2.

BTW - Even though the AHB2 was underpowered for my Yamaha NS5000 speakers with some music. I was able to determine what speaker wires worked the best with my Yamaha NS5000, ONLY with the AHB2. The AHB2 is so revealing that I could hear what each piece of my system was adding positively or negatively. I ended up with the Audience FrontRow speaker cables because those had 0 fatigue or anomalies that I could hear via the AHB2. I now use a CODA #16 amp (and FrontRow) with the NS5000 since it is a better power match. The AHB2 is a great amp.

I would want to audition exactly the amp I was considering buying. No exceptions. And 30 watts and 60 watts might sound very different, that's double the power.

As for paying $300, it might be worth it, this would not be an issue for me.

If you're happy with your system now, I'd leave well enough alone.  

As far as paying for the audition, I think everything is negotiable. And I'd rather audition the actual amp rather than it's big brother.

Interesting sales tactic though. What if you really like the 60w monoblocks, would you then buy the 30w amp without hearing it? 

As to the cost of the audition, if $300 is that outrageous in today's market then you should have no trouble finding a Pass dealer to allow you to audition for a lot less. Just remember to factor in delivery, setup, take down and return back to the dealership. 

I have always found the Benchmark amps to be quite analytical. When I had my Triton Ones, I used an Odyssey Stratos amp which at 150wpc and 60 amps of current was a perfect match to the Triton Ones.  I moved on to the Triton Refs and now use a 300wpc McIntosh amp which puts me over the moon.  Not sure you will like having only 30wpc but it will be a better sound than the Benchmark. 

Now that I’m listening to more recordings objectively I’m hearing the brightness of the Benchmark sound which could be tamed by Pass.