The main point to realise is that that no matter what volume control you use, the less you resist or "apply the brakes" the better.
The main job of a pre-amp is signal resistance with as little degradation to the signal as possible. Matching a pre-amp to an amplifier is important. If you have a very powerful amp and match it with a pre-amp that has gain you may not be able to get the volume knob up past 9 o'clock position and it's blaringly loud. Especially problemamatic with very effiecient speakers. This is an example of a lower resolution, overly restricted signal.
On the other hand, a lower powered amp used with a no gain, buffered pre-amp allowing the volume to open up to 12 noon position or higher, could sound far better. Higher power is not an indication of better sound and in many cases hinders the sound due to this, "heavy braking" volume knob restriction.
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Potentiometers are limited by having sweet spot where both channels track most accurately, this generally somewhere between 10am-2pm, they also not greatest resolution/transparency. Resistor ladder, autoformers/transformer volume control has surpassed pots. Digital volume control not superior, in dac bit stripping.
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@ghdprentice I never heard that one... It is definitely not true in my experience.
Do you use a potentiometer volume control? Most people do.
Your amp runs full open and the voltage must be REDUCED to normal listening levels. Any type of potentiometer 'applies the brakes' to this signal by restricting voltage and losing resolution in the process. So, as you turn up the volume you are releasing the brakes allowing more signal to flow and sounds better.
A pre-amp with lots of gain takes the 'reduced resolution signal' and then amplies it. You get loudness but with distortion added. Some people like the perception of added dynamics. I don't.
A potentiometer directly affects the voltage level of an analog signal by acting as a voltage divider, while a digital volume control modifies the amplitude of a digital signal without introducing any additional noise. So, newer, more expensive digital volume controllers seem to be prefered in higher end gear.
So, if you use a potentiometer the higher the knob the better.
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The OP is confusing the use of volume in a/b demonstrations (where listeners will often prefer a subtly louder replay of a track) with listening levels in general.
I have never seen in print or heard an assertion that a majority of people prefer louder playback on a sustained basis.
On "loudness", there is quite a variation in the levels that different recordings are mastered at so even listening at a consistent average SPL can require quite different volume control settings.
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"It is said far too often that the louder speaker will sound better." Huh? I've never heard that, or at least don't remember hearing that...maybe it wasn't said loud enough. I have horn speakers that can go very loud without strain (hifi and pro stuff) so speaker distortion isn't an issue around here also since efficient speakers require less grunt from the amp. I listen at various levels based on how I feel but really not particularly loud, but so what? To each their own. And that concludes my statement of the obvious.
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if A:B testing is not carefully volume matched the test is of dubious value. In doing a quick switch, louder will generally sound better.
for longer listening sessions, I think it’s a matter of personal preference and will depend on the type of music.
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Volume matching in A/B comparing is important. Usually, louder will sound "better," even by 1 dB.
However, I'm of the opinion that one should choose volume levels to match what one thinks the source probably sounded like. Tool? 100 dB is about right. Mahler at 90 dB? Sure. For big Mahler finales, with a gong on stage for instance (e.g., in the Eighth), even more than 90 dB would not be too loud.
But if you crank it up for small chamber orchestras, or string quartets, or solo piano, or acoustic guitar, etc., you misrepresent the source. To my ears, fine tuning the volume as I begin to listen is as important as fine tuning the balance (which is important for getting instrumental placement and soundstage right).
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I went to a concert at Boston Symphony Hall last weekend, sitting in row Z, middle of the hall. Crescendos hit 90dB in the first and fourth movements of Mahler Symphony #4. At home, I play it quite a bit softer. But to feel the envelopment one hears in the hall, it has to be louder than my wife would like! She won’t go to Mahler concerts usually.
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WHen a/b testing, you do want same loudness for both.
That's different than saying louder is always better. The answer to that one is the usual "it depends".
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In the correct room, louder sounds incredible. It does in mine. However my 70 yr old ears wouldn't take well to anything over 75 db for long sessions. But this way I should have many more years of high quality listening. 70 db is what I shoot for and it still sounds great, just not the being in the concert room type of experience. But I always wear audiophile earplugs for all concerts anyway. Loud music listening is something enjoyed until it results in tinnitus, or worse, loss of hearing.
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At AVS and elsewhere, they love to say the louder speaker will sound better. If a comparison wasn't db matched, it immediately becomes invalid. Saw somewhere yesterday that someone quoted a famous person name Toole in which Toole said the louder speakers will sound better, even by 1 decibel.
I find it to be ridiculous.
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Many factors come into play when comparing hifis at various loudness levels, including personal preference. So its really kind of a moot point.
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I never heard that one... It is definitely not true in my experience.
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The volume knob is like applying the brakes. Restricting the frequency. The higher the volume knob the more resolution is allowed to flow. So, the pre-amp volume knob should be as high as possible within a comfortable range. Of course there's a limit where it can become uncomfortable.
I've heard pre-amps that have lots of gain but you can't turn up the volume knob past 9 o'clock position or it's too loud. You're listening to a low level/resolution signal being boosted by gain and I find it quickly invokes listening fatigue.
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exactly,
"jl35
I always thought that that statement simply referred to a very brief audition, that if loudness level wasn't matched, the louder one would initially sound better on a very brief back-forth switch...not in reference to longer term listening..."
I find it true, I make temporary pencil marks around my Cayin's volume control when comparing things here with friends, then we begin, often I can confuse myself enough to forget .....
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Do you hear live music much?
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You have issues if you can't get into 80'sdb comfortably, and this with box, open baffle or horns. I'm night listener exclusively, so ambient noise levels at lowest point of day, with low ambient noise levels one doesn't need to turn volume level up as much, and while my modified Klipschorns sound very alive at very low volumes, some music plays best at louder levels. No compression or strain need be experienced if system and room has been optimized for it.
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I always thought that that statement simply referred to a very brief audition, that if loudness level wasn't matched, the louder one would initially sound better on a very brief back-forth switch...not in reference to longer term listening...
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Perhaps more "loudness" is perceived as more dynamic? Does that trick an listener's ears into being "better"?????
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From my experience, if it doesn't distort or hurt your ears, it sounds better louder.
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If your system has to be turned up to sound good, it needs work.
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For a particular speaker/room/ listening spot there is a certain sound level that quickly becomes annoying/abrasive depending on the chosen music. Speakers have the most distortion compared to the rest of the audio chain from source to listener. Peter Walker of Quad was asked if he thought his speaker was perfect. He said no, just that the rest were all so much worse!
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I prefer electrostats because they can play at ppp levels significantly better than dynamic speakers, which excell at ffff levels.
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Let's do some extremely basic math. If the louder speaker sounds better, even by 1 db, how much louder would Kef Q150 ($300) need to be, to beat the flagship Kef Muon, or even Kef Blade meta?
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