Options to improve digital sound

Nice system! I think your best bet is to add a Roon endpoint between the Mac and the May. This isolates a lot of the noisy processing required by Roon. You will get a lot of recommendations for endpoints, I have had good luck with Innuos. Check out the used market, you can get some good deals. And be sure to allow in your budget a good digital cable connection between the endpoint and your DAC.

I went through three Mac minis with various diy modifications, the two most effective were mod to operating systems, shutting down unneeded services, the other was adding LPS with Uptone JS-2 and MMK. So this one route and you'd have a pretty nice streamer at this point. 

I like the idea of adding an Endpoint, Roon sound quality improved running Core on one streamer, Endpoint on something like the UltraRendu. I use the OpticalRendu finding optical conversion worthwhile. The problem with this is you won't hear the full potential of the Endpoint with your mini in present state.

So, if not into diy mods with present mini, and I don't really like your mini as I believe it has soldered RAM (RAM upgrades another worthwhile mod), I'd suggest a new streamer The SonicTransporter  I7 is a very nice streamer at that price point, remember you'll also have to invest in a 12v 4 amp linear power supply to power it. SGC has their own, the other options I'd suggest are likely over your budget. And then sometime in the future you could add something like Ultra or OpticalRendu for even further improvements. 

Great system. You are short on one aspect. A high quality streamer. It should be at the same level as your DAC,  Preamp or amp. Given your system I would recommend an Aurender N200 or Aurender N250. These would provide the level of performance commiserate with the rest of your system. 

I spent several years refusing to invest in a good streamer because it was basically the same thing as my MacBook or PC. That was one of the biggest mistakes I have ever made in audio. I completely wasted the time with grossly inferior sound quality. The sound quality of your CDs should equal the sound quality of stored files and streaming. However, Qobuz  should sound  better with their one half million high resolution albums.

A good streamer must be built with the same dedication to detail, and quality that any other audio component has to be. It needs an outstanding power supply, internally and externally shielding from noise, vibration... etc. This requires lots of design time, high quality parts and expertise. Aurender makes some of the best streamers... it is all they do. After owning a dozen other streamers over twenty years, I own two Aurender. My vinyl playback, CD, stored files and streaming all sound the same, the best sound I have every had.  You can see my virtual systems under my user ID. 

@mihorn 

"All current digital players and DACs sound veiled/glared."

Interesting. So how long did it take to listen to every digital player and DAC?

So I use the Sonic Transporter on my network but rather than using a noisy computer to control Roon, I just use a decent streamer connected i2S to my dac. Sounds awesome. 

@tony1954 , good point.

@walt8489 ,

you have some decent equipment going into the game.

My 2 cents-

What is the input cabling? How does it arrive at the DAC?

I second getting a good streamer. Aurrender and Innuos are two very good brands.

I have no experience with Apple products, but from a short Googling, it looks like the Mini Mac isn't expressly designed for music reproduction, leading me to suggest products made for the task. Though some might disagree, I believe that there is a difference in how digital audio products are made vs. generic.

HTH

Bob 

There seems to be a definite consensus that a dedicated streamer is preferred over the Mini connecting to a UltraRendu and then the DAC.  One reason I am looking at the SonicTransporter is that it can be a Roon server.  I think Audirvana can also be loaded onto it.  That is not the case with Aurender and I'm not sure about Innous. 

I could stretch the budget by $1000 or so.  Any other suggestions for a dedicated streamer, preferably one where Roon can be loaded as a server (as opposed to just an end point) are appreciated.

mac mini is definitely not the best streamer.
if Roon is in the picture here I would keep it simple and run the roon core on mac mini and get a dedicated streamer that’s a roon endpoint. Not a fan of a server/streamer combo and at this price point there’s most likely no solution without a compromise with a one box unit. For Roon endpoint you can try Lumin U2 or Aurender N200 for example. 
Also don’t forget the USB cable makes a pretty significant difference. Good Ethernet cables can also improve sound. 

I agree with the consensus.  Keep the Mac Mini, it's a very handy thing to have in the system, but get a streamer or renderer.  I'd recommend one with an I2S output for the Holo.  Any quality renderer will have options for running Roon or Audirvana.  In fact Audirvana now makes an embedded Linux version that operates directly from the streamer and can be controlled from a portable device with their remote app.  If you like Audirvana, look for a device that encorporates this.  You can check their web page for cooperating manufacturers.  The Holo Red is a very affordable streamer that would be a great match for the May.

If you have not attempted to use Roon DSP to tweak the sound as needed it would be silly to change anything else prior.  You already own perhaps the most powerful and flexible tweak of all. Use it!

1) If anyone knew how to make no veil sound d player, he won’t be quiet about it and we’ll be hearing his music. What stops him come out in this time and age?

2) I’ve been exhibiting my system in audio shows last >10 years. I went all other rooms to check out sounds. All they have thick veils. And all their sounds match with Youtube videos. Microphones don’t lie. YT videos are very accurate.

3) Hottest speaker now is Stenheim. In below, people voices are clean/normal w/out the veil. When the music starts, the veil masks music behind it (or bright glare if you use immersive technique).  Primare, Stenheim and AntiCables 

Compare with no veil system. Chantal - Besame mucho

4) Please post the link if anyone finds no veil sound system.

Alex/Wavetouch audio

tony1954

@mihorn   "All current digital players and DACs sound veiled/glared."

Interesting. So how long did it take to listen to every digital player and DAC?

Definitely a good streamer is the answer.

@mihorn  are you OK?

@walt8489

I second all of those that suggest utilizing a quality Roon endpoint as opposed to streaming directly from your Mac Mini functioning as Server/Streamer.

In my case Roon Core is a Roon Nucleus and principal endpoint is a Rose RS130 feeding a Rockna Wavelight via Tubulus Concentus I2S.  For Rockna Wavelight, by design I2S all things being equal is the best input.

However, you have a Holo May, and as I understand it, the Holo May folks consider USB to be the best input (good friend has Holo May, and this is what Holo Audio folks told him). So I suggest looking for quality endpoint that features USB output together with a quality USB cable. 

My 2c:

Do the Sonic Transport , great Roon Core host.  Then pair that with the Bryston BDP-3 on here for $1.5K.  The BDP makes a great Roon endpoint.  You can have your attached storage off the ST and have it integrated with ROON or Hang it off the BDP which will sound great. BDP interface is Spartan but it works for file storage.  The Switch from ROON endpoint to direct on the BDP is also a snap. Looks like you can match up the AES output/input as well which should be another +

thishttps://help.qobuz.com/en/articles/307885-what-is-qobuz-connect

and a Aurender or InnuOs product is the best way for streaming. 
It allows you to use the native app from Qobuz. No need for Roon. They have come a long way in simplifying and making it sound fantastic. Take advantage of this situation it is truly the velvet path.

I went from a MacBook Pro to a Project Stream Box S2 Ultra. Then upgraded the Project with a Teddy Pardo LPS. A very good improvement. I was happy. 

Last year upgraded to a new Antipodes K21 (on special). Darn. A big step up! Well worth the investment.

The rendu nothing special go for a decent streamer innuous pulse with linear power supplies , at your router that cheap $3 wall wart power supply just adding noise.

small green computer 8 amp 12 v , look on your router most are 12 v now 

$299 LPS power supply , what is your Ethernet switch. LHY 6  best bang for the $$ 

and what are you Ethernet cables ,and usb ?  That too a big influence .I recently bought a Stealth usb cable , a excellent product , I bought their latest Tunable to adjust more or less bass  Anthony at Perrotta consultants  gives good pricing and service that’s where I bought both the innuos streamer and Stealth ,

ethernet your end point most important  quality does count for sure in digital cables too.

Check out Lumin and Silent Angel line of products. 
 

Good luck and let us know how make out!

I used Mac Minis for a while but ultimately a quality dedicated streamer can do much better.  SQ just isn’t a priority with Apple

Adding a quality Endpoint to a stock mini is not the way to go, I know from direct experience. Your Core is as important as the Endpoint. Now a highly modded mini can be a pretty good streamer on it's own, again I know from direct experience, but this requires a good deal of diy mods. 

The OP's best route at this point is to go with a single box streamer, decide which music player to go with, Audirvana, Roon or proprietary, this will have great influence on which streamer to go with. If going with Roon, the SonicTransporter is very nice in the price range OP talking about, the I9 with optical is very, very nice if willing to pay the extra cost. And with Roon you add the second streamer sometime down the road, the OpticalRendu great match for Sonictransporters. If choosing to go with proprietary music players the Innuos and Aurender likely best way to go.

You've got a great system but you need a proper front end. The 1st axiom of HIFI is garbage in, garbage out.

My choice was Aurender N20 and I'm still loving it.

 

sns

3,887 posts

06-30-2025 at 09:41am 

Adding a quality Endpoint to a stock mini is not the way to go,

Your Core is as important as the Endpoint.

how so? I’m just curious what your experience was. In my mind i can’t figure out why a Roon core would make a difference. Let’s take my use case for example…

I am using a Mac Mini as a Roon core (for years now). It is fed by one of the EERO mesh network nodes in a completely different room. I then have another EERO mesh node in a vicinity of my system feeding the streamer. 
I’d like to understand how in this configuration the Mac Mini is inferior to lets say a Roon Nucleus One or even Roon Nucleus Titan.

Also, a one box solution of Roon Core Streamer at the level of OP’s budget will most likely be a side step. You get all the Roon Core related processing which at times is CPU and memory intensive and at the cost of OP’s budget will be a compromise in my opinion as opposed to getting a dedicated Roon ready streamer. All in one no compromise solution starts at 4-5x the budget….i.e. Grimm MU1 used or MU2. But that’s just my take on it. 
 

But please let me know how the core impacts the sound quality. 

Mac fanboy, have all their products. However, for music, I do not use any Mac gear, except my iPhone to control my streamer. 

Going to suggest, removing the Mini, replacing it with a quality streamer. Don't change anything else yet. Just get used to the streamer, then go down the upgrade path. 

I had my old ipod (yup, still got one) plugged into my system for a while. It sounded flat, hollow, and compressed. 

Get a Roon Nucleus Plus revision A on Ebay or USAM around $600.00. Upgrade the power supply (s-booster).  $400 or so.  Plug in external hard drive or install internal.  

Use DSP to "tailor" sound.  Use high quality cables, they do make a difference.  You are familiar with Roon.  A very painless way to go.

@audphile1 Roon Core is where vast majority of processing goes on, the relatively complex interface of Roon is processor intensive. CPU's working at relatively high rates creates more noise and higher latency, both are enemies of resolution  Higher latency also means greater chance for timing issues. The reason so many find Roon inferior to the proprietary music players is those music players have been designed as to require far less processing and deliver lower latency, result is both increased resolution and more analog like sound quality. 

As for empirical evidence, I've had a variety of Endpoint and Core streamers, the Cores have a far greater impact on sound quality vs the Endpoints. I'd suggest its both the processor, latency issue, and the fact Core sits upstream of Endpoint. Contrary to certain popular opinion, noise introduced anywhere in the streaming chain cannot be eliminated within the offending component by components  further down the chain, no getting back resolution, latency lost. 

I purchased both the SonicTransporter and Roon Nucleus, but returned the ST7. I found the Nucleus’ software to be more stable. The ST7 had frequent connection issues in just the two weeks I had it. 

Thanks @sns 

I do realize there’s a lot of irrelevant tasks in the mac mini that can potentially impact sound quality by negatively impacting roon related processing. I’ll be trying a dedicated core soon. Can’t wait to see how it impacts the sound hopefully it’ll be a positive difference. 

I'm certainly not the first to say this, and surely won't be the last, but the streamer is right up there with the dac in order of importance in streaming chain. I don't care about all the signal and network filters, audiophile switches, lps, etc., these all just band aids if streamer and dac not optimal, the full potential of these devices will only be realized after attending to dac and streamer. 

I'd also add a totally maxed out mac mini can be a very nice streamer at a certain price point. I learned a lot from incrementally optimizing my mac minis. Optimizing operating systems, quality RAM and linear power supplies are critical for streamers, powerful processor for low latency next. The proof of need for a powerful processor with Roon was crystal clear when I was running both Roon and Audirvana with the minis, Audirvana always had superior sound quality to Roon with all three of my minis. It wasn't until I obtained my present custom build server (I9 Intel processor, Euphony operating system, Optane industrial RAM, powered by $6k JCAT Optimo ATX lps) that Roon sq surpassed Audirvana, adding the second streamer as an Endpoint/renderer added that much more. Roon is capable of sq equal to or better than very nice vinyl setups, seemingly requires more extensive optimizations than streamers with proprietary music player apps. I should add Roon sq superior to the Euphony Stylus proprietary music player app with my setup, very few Euphony Stylus users agree with this.

 

sns

3,890 posts

06-30-2025 at 10:50pm 

I'm certainly not the first to say this, and surely won't be the last, but the streamer is right up there with the dac in order of importance in streaming chain. I don't care about all the signal and network filters, audiophile switches, lps, etc., these all just band aids if streamer and dac not optimal, the full potential of these devices will only be realized after attending to dac and streamer. 
 

Agreed 100%. Don’t go down the rabbit hole with tweaks. You can’t polish the turd. 

Hi. 

Instead of suggesting various streamer, endpoints, cable or configuration options, I’ll try to briefly breakdown various areas to consider that create interference in the cable/ network path affecting audio resolution (sound floor). That way you can work to find a solution that is best for your system and budget. 
 

A. Reduce Electrical or digital noise: Major factor! 

(1) By decoupling electrical connections: For example, use UTP (unshielded) Ethernet cable. Create fiber optic connections/  galvanic separation links.
Use devices design specifically for low noise high quality digital processing and delivery (not a home computer). Ground devices if possible.  Use separate power supplies, if possible. 
 

Regardless of what some may say, in hifi, everything matters at some point and to some degree. Start with the very first step in the digital chain. For me, I started with coax cable feeding into my house from my ISP (Xfinity). I considered every step the data traveled to reach my Dac. I then looked for every opportunity to reduce or eliminate line noise entry points.
 

I suggest, start with the noisiest device or section of your network/ data chain and work towards your DAC. Go slowly, take your time to learn as much as you can about each section and find a better solution. You will be absolutely amazed how much this can improve SQ. (And it doesn’t need to cost a lot)
 

I have a basic Roon Nucleus, but my digital network from coax cable drop outside to my DAC is well thought out and designed to reduce noise. 
 

FYI, I also have the Gibbon X speakers :)

best to you