Hey OP,
I find Magico's a little chesty, but no, you aren't hearing the tweeter. It's glass smooth. More likely those Magico caps that are going to take a while and perhaps the midrange suspension.
New Magico Speaker Break-in Question
This afternoon, I received my new Magico A5s, which replaced Revel Studios that I have owned for more than 20 years. The A5s are definitely more clear, have superior imaging and provide at least equal soundstaging. The bass is tighter, but, with three 9" woofers, I am surprised that it doesn't go very deep at all (fortunately, I have two SVS SB17-Ultra subwoofers that will easily take care of that shortcoming).
However, there is one aspect of these A5's performance that I find a bit disquieting and the reason for this post. The treble in the 2KHz to 5KHz seems to be a little [what I'll call] shrieking; it is somewhat uncomfortable to listen to for an extended time. I know that this loudspeaker uses a beryllium tweeter, and I have never had a speaker before that employed one. Perhaps, its tonality is what I am reacting to .
And so, my question. I have read that it takes 250+ hours for the A5s to break-in and become the speaker that Mr. Wolf and his colleagues intended. As part of that break-in, will the tweeter also blossom and become easier to listen to?
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Do they break them in at the factory? Mine spent a week being broken in before they shipped them. It must make a difference or they wouldn't spend time doing it. I think I'd ask the dealer and/or Magico if you haven't already. I also wonder if the new speakers are more revealing than your old speakers. You've spent 20 years selecting gear and cables (I assume) that work with them. I think you'll get great sound. Might take more break in and tweaking. I'm also running subs. My speakers are rated pretty flat down to 28hz, but they don't move air like a sub will. I suspect your speakers are the same. From what I've read, they prioritize tight bass. |
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Fatigue and some level of your reference to a ’shriek’ may continue to be there. A metallic sheen in the midrange shall also be hard to ignore. It is fine for electronic music, etc, but, if you really know something, for example, about ’how’ a violin, etc sounds and then heard the magico or a wilson, prepare for some disappointment. Fortunately, it came with a 30 or 60 day return window, I hope. But, it isn’t all a sob story...Get a mofi 888. Since the latter was designed by a high iq individual, you can get a high caliber of sound at a fraction of the cost....Gobs of bass, non-fatiguing detail, coherent, listenable for long periods, etc. Donate cash saved to the grandson for his house down-payment and hifi rig.
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You might play around with toe-in. My B&W 803D sounded too bright when positioned toed-in to face the listening seat as per the manufacturer's recommendation, but I was able to tame that down significantly by re-positioning the speakers so they face forward (no toe-in). Added plus is the soundstage image enlarged. |
Hi @jmeyers, I think the Revel studios (and Salons) are known for their laid back, easy to listen to tweeters. I have owned the Studios and own the Salons. I also have owned YG Haileys in my reference system, and even when fully broken in can lead to ear fatigue, especially with harsher music. What cables and other equipment are you using? |
To @jmeyers -
------------------------ How about dips into 2.6 ohms, more specifically. Your other speakers were 6 ohms. These are 4 ohms nominal, and dip down if you trust this SP test graph for reference. There was another member here who experienced something similar, different speaker, same type of situation as I recall. We ended up figuring out his tube amps and others had some trouble driving the speakers at low impedance and it becomes shrill, harsh, not fun to listen to for long periods. Worth checking this more and comparing A5 speaker versions, and worth asking Magico more on what amps are best to use. One of the tests, they used a mighty Boulder amp in a few tests and people mention trying some Pass amps to fwiw. See the comments below about "no tube amps", worth noting as well. Yes, looking at the crossovers and caps used, some 250+ hr break-in can help some, but I’d first be looking closely at what amp capability you have now, and compare from there. Apparently this is known about needing an extra capable amplifier to drive these well. My question is about what happens to the sound when other parts of the frequency experiences impedance dips like this. Others wil chime in, I suspect. Maybe you have this covered already, good luck.
Stereophile article, for reference: https://www.stereophile.com/content/magico-a5-loudspeaker-measurements
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@dweller curious how the speakers heard at a dealer (if in fact OP heard them at dealers) will sound the same? I would guess it was with different electronics and more importantly the room plays so much into what is heard. Been there heard it. |
Magico are very sensitive to input electronics and absolutely any anomalies passed from your components will be reproduced. So the first thing I looked at were your components... well the Mac stuff is unlikely to be the problem, it is very soft in the treble. The Bricasti might perhaps be too "detailed oriented". Secondly, I am not a fan of Wireworld silver... it is not a relaxed. Overall, though, most of your stuff is not oriented towards the detail / fatiguing side of audio. Magic are relentlessly accurate.
But, get another couple hundred hours on them before any final conclusion. |
Congrats on the new speakers. I jumped from Revel to Focal Scala Utopia, which have a beryllium tweeter. I believe there are some similarities between the Magico and Focal speakers in that both are going to be very revealing of the electronics and the track. They will faithfully reproduce the signal you give them. In contrast, long ago I had SF bookshelf speakers and regardless the electronics, they reproduced a smooth, warm sound - good for some music, but not for other types. Once you break them in, I think you need to decide if you want to go down the path of adjusting your electronics or swapping speakers. Magico are very backordered so you can easily sell them. I have been upgrading all my electronics and the high mids and highs are much better, but there are still a few tracks that are troubling to me. I have the same issue on other speakers so some of what you hear may be your ears or room. I want to blame my benchmark dac, but it could be the tweeters. My advice is to let them break in and consider your electronics and room. Reducing toe in help me as well and I prefer a wider sound anyway. Be aware that you may be upping the volume to get the bass to hit harder, but then adding too much high frequency at the higher volume. Also, try to embrace the highs and the details. There are two sides to every coin and that level of detail and reveal is addicting and adds so much to the soundstage and nuances of all instruments and voices. IMO, each system excels in certain areas, but also has drawbacks. If you like all types of music, then an all-around system may have a few rough spots but mostly hits home runs across all genres - I think this will be your system. I listen to everything from slow soft vocals and instruments to techno club music. So embrace the highs and admire them, and don’t ignore or wish them away. I listen into the high mids and highs and am amazed at the clarity and detail. I won’t have these speakers forever so while I do I appreciate their characteristics. It takes time to adjust to new speakers. |
Step 1: Set them up facing straight ahead (i.e. 30 degrees off axis). If brightness still there... Step 2: Get a 31-band dBX dual mono EQ or other EQ and try to EQ out the offending frequency band. If brightness still there... Step 3: Pack them up and return or sell because no amount of gear changes, cable changes, etc will make up for a speaker's native balance. Speakers either work for your listening preferences or they don't! |
+1 @bojack Hopefully step 1 works for the OP. That is exactly what I did and it worked for me (my post above, step 1 only). |
Honest question... does a speaker such as the Magico create a harshness, or does it reproduce a harsh tone being sent to it with more clarity? I mean, do the drivers distort, etc and create the harshness? My previous preamp sounded really good most of the time, but many songs sounded sibilant. I blamed it on the recordings. When I was forced to get a new preamp, I still had excellent detail, but the sibilance was gone. Upgrading my dac also helped. I'm not saying that this is the OP's problem. I'm not familiar with his gear. |
I had exactly the same experience when upgraded SF Venere to SF Sonetto III, shrieking sound. I played them, facing each other and covered with heavy comforter, for four days using "Irrational but Efficacious" CD by Ayre. The results were obvious, shriekiness was almost gone. All together, after about 200 to 250 hours the sweet SF sound settled in. Be patient! |
I had Salk speakers with this problem and did everything to try to figure this out. In the end: nope, not even absorption could help. I also recall the Be tweeters in the Focal 926 were pesky, too. Magico is a great company but I wonder if they're designing this speaker for that "high end clarity magic" that, to some ears, is just a shriek. |
@decooney Many thanks for your thoughtful response. My A5s are powered by McIntosh MC611s. These are mono amplifiers that output 600 watts are 8, 4, and 2 ohms. Consequently, I don’t think that my amplification is the cause of my near-term concern. @ all I am impressed by, and most appreciative of, the thoughtfulness of all who have taken the time to respond to my inquiry. I would like to add that I also bought Magico's ACC as my new center channel speaker. Last night, my wife and I watched episodes of Matlock and Reaper. We always have subtitles engaged because it is hard for us to grasp all the dialogue. Afterwards, both of us were surprised that we weren't reading the subtitles. The ACC reproduced the dialogue so clearly that we were able to understand everything said. It was remarkable! I strongly recommend the Magico ACC as a center channel speaker. |
@jmeyers -- I hope re-positioning or time help to tame the speakers. Apologies for breaking in, but your post gave me pause as I am on the verge of upgrading from A3s to A5s. The A5s will be dealer demos from out of state with roughly 200 hrs. My amp is a pre-owned T+A PA 3100 HV. I have pretty old ears that have lost a lot of HF detection, yet ironically have become sensitive to bright equipment. Overall I really like the A3s and while they do not come across as too bright, I'm concerned that the more revealing A5s could. I have not heard the A5s and kind of assumed that if I like the A3s, I will really like the A5s.
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@hilde45 I'm surprised to hear your thoughts on the Salks. I have Song 3 and it's one of the pieces of gear I would never sell. Perfect clarity but not fatiguing to me. Different tweeter though. I haven't heard that complaint much about Salk. Somewhat incidental as they no longer exist. |
Congrats on your new Magicos. I've heard the Magico S5 MkII several times, and was always super impressed. No inherent brightness to speak of. Once the woofers get fully flexed, bass should extend and improve, and may even balance out the treble somewhat. New caps of this caliber can be pretty sibilant for a while, but should come around. In November I installed a couple of new caps in my preamp, then tried to evaluate some DACs....everything sounded shrill. I thought the new DACs were awful, then remember the new caps. Within a couple of weeks they got much clearer, and opened right up....no more shrillness. The DACs were fine. Best of luck with your acquisition |
For sure, and you’ve checked that box and then some, very nice! Just a few days ago a known celeb’s system showed up on a video with similar Magicos, and the larger Mc amps. Interesting. The other specific thing I can think of is those same caps in the speaker crossovers. I’ve used multiple variations of those same Mundorfs in different components and wow, they can take a looooooong time to form, break in, settle in. Some silver-over-copper and certain OCC cables can have a tipped up sound too fwiw. Curious how it sounds after your 250hrs of play time. Enjoy your system, have fun! |
I have the q7 and they have a binding post for the high and one for the low to bi amp or biwire.i put the hegel 30 a in mono and it must have been too low of ohms and put it into loop mode.the mcintosh work great due to hybride it works fine sounds great. It takes alot of time to breat in speakers,caps ect.put them on 5 watts and play them for a week.give them a break for an hour to let the motor on the speaker to go through heat cycles. Use large gauge cabel at least 10 for speaker wire.you can always call magico and ask them what they suggest for breakin.i have installed many beryllium tweeters and they sound strange in the beginning. Good luck be patient.enjoy the s3arch. |
I have A5’s for several years. They are smooth as silk up top with the right amps; I can listen all day with no fatigue. Hardness or shrillness in the low treble is what you are feeding them - they are very revealing.
My advice: continue the break in process. If the problem does not resolve itself then try other amplification.
Good luck! |
All speakers need some amount of break in. Using them in a HT setup is a good way to start. After a few weeks they are pretty much going to be as good as they are ever going to be. Question, how far from the front and side walls are the A5’s? All the best. |
That's because it was the tweeter, not the Salk as a brand, itself. That's why I also mentioned a different brand, Focal. In both cases, it was, I think, the tweeter. |
To @jmeyers - really good speakers, capable amps, all seems in place. I’m very interested how this turns out after the long burn-in cycle is done. Both @hilde45 compared notes some a few years back, and I have run into this whole "be" tweeter matter before. Recently went to a friends house and changed out some alloys for soft domes for him on some speakers I made years back. Some designers have even walked away and back to really good soft domes. However, I tend to believe the right crossover design could help, but that’s a guess too. An adjustable one [dare I say] but may be unique to each persons system, room, etc. Also, meant to ask, are you running "silver" or silver over copper interconnect and speaker cables by chance?
Keep us posted here to let us know how it turns out, okay? |
I own a pair of A-5's in my second system. First most high end speakers are "broken-in" at the factor. Next I've not found any harshness in the tweeter. I think as others have said they are more revealing to downstream components. I would look to your DAC. Interesting you found they lacked bass. I do not experience that. It may be that your just "used" to subs in your system that have boosted the low end too much. These are truly great speakers. Congrats |
2 questions these like current what amp are you using , land these Xovers take at least 150 hours to start opening up and 300 hours to full run in ,a couple guys have them in one of our audio clubs . the B&W 803D4. May have given you more bang for your Buck retail I think yours are around $25k after covid. |
Yep. I wonder. Another symptom of those pesky Mundorf caps in the speakers. Long Long break-in. I did not get the more natural tone, warmth, depth of bass out of all of my prior and current Mundorf cap installs until 100-200 hours, and still better after 300hr hours. Painful time for forming and settling in with electronics and likely as long with passive crossovers. If you are an inpatient person, you might end up reselling anything with Mundorf caps in it before realizing the full potential. |
I'm not blessed with super audiophile ears. Can't hear differences in fuses, isolation platforms, etc.. Had conversations with Wilson Audio about my Alexx V break in time. They told me flat out no break in required. I also heard none on either speaker after 400 hours. If there was a difference no way to AB. If you can hear a difference in a capacitor after that length of time good for you! |
@ricred1 agree. Speakers no, cables no. Cartridges ok they change over 20 or so hrs. |
I would have guessed equipment compatibility. The Magico A5 presents a difficult load. Your virtual system list your stereo amps as MAC 611 Monoblocks that can well handle the 2ohm dips in the bass. Therefore, it should not be a compatibility issue IMHO. The A5 is a very detailed and clear modern speaker. The bass presentation is much tighter than the Revel Studio. The Revel house sound is detailed and clear in its own right, but may sound romantically thicker in the bass and mid bass to my ears. You may be reacting to the differences in house sound. However, some have published Magicos need 300-500 hours of break in. I recommend you evaluate the sound as they break in over that time period. |
NEW Speakers and their initial stiff driver rubber or foam surrounds will loosen up, the capacitors inside all settle in with some good play time on them. Pretty standard for new stuff. Used stuff, no need to wonder or worry just play it and enjoy. New stiff [overly rigid] coiled up multi-stranded copper cables with rigid dielectrics inside, especially those sitting tightly coiled up in boxes for six months on a shelf, initial static electricity release, all well known and measurable parameters that change with some with a little play time. Compare sound at 1 and again 14-21 days. If you can't hear any difference, even better - no need to buy more gear.
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@jmeyers You can try one or more Akiko Audio Tuning sticks with your electronics. To my ears and in my system, they tame the edge of the high frequencies. |
