audioTroy,
The monitor audio platinum series will put the focal speakers to shame, they're very two-dimensional compared to the platinums. sorry but you made wrong choices again.
Looking for my End Game Speaker
I'm looking for my end game speakers. My system currently consists a digital streaming front end with the Mola mola Tambaqui DAC and Grimm MU1 streamer along with Magico A3 speakers. For amplification, I recently acquired on the used market, the Audionet Humboldt.
I live in a small 960 sq ft condo in a highrise. My system is in the great room (living, dining, and kitchen all in one). Given the room configuration, my speakers have to be located close to a side wall (unless I radically change the room and block my balcony doors with my stereo). Room dimensions are 12' x 16' (not including kitchen).
The following speakers are on my list to auditon:
Marten Parker Trio, Acora (SRB, SRC1, SRC2), Magico S3 - 2023, Magico M2, Joseph Audio, Franco Serblin, Rockport, Vivid Audio Giya G4,
I have already heard the Acora SRC1 and thought they were amazing, however, perhaps a bit bass shy.
Given my room constraints, I'm concentrating more on the models that have a sealed box design. Given that, I am very interested in the Magico M2 and S3 - 2023. Has anyone heard these two models? A used M2 would cost about the same as a new S3. How do these two models compared? Which would you choose?
Can anyone recommend any other sealed box design speakers.....or any speakers that would fit into a relatively small room (close to the walls)? I should also note that I would like a speaker that performs well with lower listening volumes....
I have booked my ticket to AXPONA 2025, so I'm making a list of speakers that I should audition.
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Vandersteen Treo CT, which can be placed very close to the front wall, or its bigger brother the Quatro CT (or even the Kento, but $$$$) . The Humboldt is a superb integrated, I’ve read, and the question is whether it would work with the high-pass filters that the Quatro CT requires (and that’s why separates are more ideal with the Quatros). "That's primarily what I want from a pair of loudspeakers—not deep bass (which these Vandersteens do have); not wide dynamics (at which the Wood CTs excel); not clean, uncolored mids and highs (something the Vandersteens readily offer); but a stereo virtual reality engine to connect me with the music I want [to] listen to. On that ground, a pair of Vandersteen's Quatro CTs scores big-time." ~
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@zuesman You seem to be pushing MA a lot. I'm a fan too, having owned several pairs including two generations of Platinum. I still think they are in the top 3 in the world for value but there are other brands out there and it's nice we have so much choice. I did have several listening sessions with the PL500. Those are great speakers, no question there. But I do not think they would put the Fenestria to shame. Yes the tweeter is extremely good but the drivers are the same as the ones in the PL200 and PL300 (gen 2) and MA improved on them in Gen 3. I did listen to the PL300 Gen 3 and the Hyphn. I prefer the Fenestria. Not by a long shot but the anti-vibration system in the PMC plus their ATC system allows for a cleaner/more accurate bass and is easier to install in smaller rooms which is not the case for the PL500. Plus the Fenestria have the ability to sound excellent even on less than ideal recordings. I don't know how they do that because they are still very detailed but with my MAs, it was not always the case. Anyway, at the end of the day, the differences are generally 'minor' across models/brands at that level and mostly subjective i.e. the type of sound you prefer based on the fact that more pepper / salt was put in X recipe. So that is why I would never us an expression like "put [insert speaker name here] to shame" when comparing models in the cost no object bracket. |
Consider getting a pair of GoldenEar Triton References. They have excellent sound when connected to high end electronics and you have the option of controlling the bass level which allows for listening at lower volumes. Bass goes down to 20 Hz and no need for a subwoofer. You will save $25k or more. |
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For whatever it’s worth, i.e.: depending on your particular taste and preferences, I’d consider looking for a used pair of TAD CR-1’s. They’re hellishly expensive, yes, even used, but of the stand-mounted varieties I’ve heard in this size and segment of speakers they’re about the best to my ears. It's a monitor in the truer sense of the word (certainly in my understanding of it), and expect for a lack of all-out macro-dynamic scale and ultimate low end extension and wallop is rather uninhibited in its presentation. |
I have 2 great systems in my house, and have auditioned many pairs of speakers on both. The main upstairs system was easy, I just kept on going up the Dynaudio ladder until I hit the Confidence 30's. I can't go anywhere from there. The basement I ended up with PMC Twenty5 22i speakers. Both speakers compliment the gear and the rooms the best. I have end game on both systems. |
@calgarian5355 - JA Perspective 2 owner here. Before buying my speakers, I seriously considered Gershman Acoustics 30th Anniversary Grand Avant Garde. My last experience with the Gershman speakers at the Toronto Audio Fest this month. Again, these speakers do no wrong, but I think they are bit too smooth on top and bit polite. No matter which track was played, I got the feeling that it sounded more less the same. JAP2 sounds more transparent without fatiguing and it has realistic tonality. it reveals reverb and ambiance in the recording superbly. JAP2 costs little more than the Gershman's, however, to me, JAP2 looks way more attractive (which is a big factor) and sounds more emotionally engaging / involving. |
I own the Joseph audio perspective 2. I’ve got mine in a 15’ x 13’ room working great, so I’m sure they would work in your room. They do need to be well clear of the back wall.
You are certainly being given a great list of loudspeakers . I listened to a tremendous number of loudspeakers before deciding on the Joseph audio speakers (magico, vivid, Focal, monitor audio, Paradigm persona, It’s a long list).
Like many of us, we end up choosing a loudspeaker that just seems to speak to us . That’s how I ended up with the Joseph Audio speakers. Whatever the strengths of other speakers, none nailed the beauty and purity of sound, and instrumental timbre, for me like the Joseph speakers. Plus, they were great all arounders - plenty resolution for audiophile jollies, class leading sound staging, and imaging and disappearing act, great punchy bass, incredibly smooth and easy to listen to without sounding dark or lacking detail.
Depending on your taste, you will get things from other speakers you may like better .
But if we just take something like the magical M2 which I’ve only heard briefly - though I’ve heard other magical loudspeakers and auditioned the A3 - I’d say a couple salient differences between the magico and the Joseph sound are:
To me, the magical are absolutely classic “ audiophile” loudspeakers. They’ve gone to great lengths to minimize distortion and every possible way, so that they have a very linear even, boxless sound. They are truly amazing in that respect, and can be incredible in terms of detail and instrumental timber and sound staging.
The reason I didn’t end up with with Magico was mostly that they were a bit too “ audiophile” for me. They were sort of controlled and buttoned down to a fault. Didn’t really let their hair down with lots of the fun music that I really love (like thoughts of funky jazzy big band stuff, and funk, dance).
Music just sounded more enthusiastic through some other loudspeakers than on the Magico.
I also found that the Joseph audio speakers sounded more pure and grain free overall. Not necessarily more detailed, but just so incredibly unmechanical and smooth compared to most of the speakers even magico.
Another different aspect is in the bass. Magic does what I think of as “ audiophile bass.” You know how when you become an audiophile, very often one of the first things you concentrate on when looking for a new speakers is bass quality. Most of us grew up with Soundsystem in which base was boomy or ill defined, and then you hear a really good audiophile speaker and you hear really tight controlled base for the first time and think “ oh man so that’s what base sounds like! Even the bass sounds like real instruments!” And then you go onto search for speakers that make sure they do not produce the dreaded one note sluggish bass.
The thing is, I’ve found that if you just keep going down that road, you end up with some loudspeakers that are just so Tight, so controlled and buttoned down, they can be less fun. So I think of audiophile bass as a type of presentation where the bass instrument, be at a stand-up bass, electric bass, synth bass or whatever, is so controlled that it appears somewhere back in the soundstage, totally focussed and dimensionally placed, but still “ just sitting back there.” It’s a base it’s performing somewhere in the soundstage behind the loudspeakers, but it’s not really reaching out and hitting you like real bass instruments do.
One of the things Jeff Joseph has managed to do with his speakers, and certainly with the perspectives, is to offer really well-controlled base so it is nuanced, tonal and holograph placed as well, but there is a warmth to bass that rolls out over you. It has some room feel. Which for me is really great when I can feel the kick drum and bass.
I I even listened to a $65,000 pair of Estelon loudspeakers at my buddies place, and even though they were bigger and went deeper and slammed harder, it was still “ sitting back there” too much for me, and when I came home and played the same tracks on my Joseph speakers, it was like “ahhh” there is that impact and fun I was missing. How much preferred the Joseph presentation overall.
So the Joseph prospector is doing a nice job of being a very well-balanced all-around speaker, but also having a sense of fun.
This could be down to there being a ported design, which possibly interacts more with the room. I don’t know. But I found I prefer it at this point.
Plus, they are one of the most gorgeous loudspeaker designs I’ve seen and am among the best fit and finish of any speaker I’ve seen. They are basically the nicest piece of furniture in our entire house! And the fact that they are small and slim makes them so easy to integrate into a room, and you can get a vast stage.
Once again, you’re gonna get other things from other speakers that the Joseph audios don’t do of course.
But IF the particular tonal voice of the Joseph sound appeals to you, then you don’t quite get it anywhere else.
As for the vivid audio speakers, I think they are amazing, they totally disappear with incredible clarity and detail. I just found them ultimately a bit anti-septic for my taste. For me to Joseph speakers, I have a richer more organic sound.
I hope that helps. |
Meaning I’ve been addicted to all things Audio Group Denmark since ‘18. Over on USA mart, in the last 18 months alone, I’ve sold 25 pieces. Over the last 6 years buying and selling between Mart and Gon, I couldn’t begin to guess the #’s. Finally had to take a step back, I’m now Ansuz/Aavik/Borresen free, but I don’t know how long I can hold out.
*disclaimer- of course this is all tongue and cheek, not belittling the seriousness of addiction in any way |
@mbmi Yes! I’ll be checking out the Borresen room for sure. They are the hot speaker brand currently! Just be sure to take note of the eco-$ystem feeding them. This is true for any show demo, but Borresen is notorious for pairing 50K speakers with 150K equipment. I know first hand, as I'm in AGD recovery. |
@mbmi Yes! I’ll be checking out the Borresen room for sure. They are the hot speaker brand currently! Does anyone have much experience with Audio Physic? |
@zuesman Yes, I was speaking to the Monitor Audio representative and he mentioned that solid state amplifiers are ideal for their speakers. |
calgarian5355, I can understand why you thought they didn't sound that great, hooking these speakers up to tube amplifiers will not make them sound their best, I heard them with the Rotel michi amplifiers and they sounded phenomenal, I have the monitor audio platinum 200 ll and I just upgraded my amp to the new SIM audio 861 it beat my w8 all to hell very expensive but well worth it I'm hearing stuff in the sound stage I never heard with my w8 as good as it is. |
@zuesman So I had the chance to attend a mini audio show here at one of my local dealers....and got to listen to the Monitor Audio Hyphn. It was a fairly crowded room (fairly warm as well)....and upon first listen, I wasn't overly impressed. The speakers were powered by two Audio Research mono blocks running a Linn DSM streamer/DAC/preamp. All wiring was Audioquest Dragon. I went back a couple more times when Audioquest was doing a cable demo....and got a few minutes to listen to more familiar tracks. Yes, I would say the sound was impressive. I wasn't used to the height of the soundstage (the hyphn is a fairly tall speaker). I'm not sure they were worth $130K CDN though. To be honest, I thought the Acora SRC1 speakers were considerably better in terms of overall realism, transparency, and soundstage width (was uncanny!); where the Hyphn was clearly better was the bass response. Unfortunately, I never had a chance to listen to the Monitor Audio 200s; they had them on display, but were not hooked up. @blisshifi Thank you for taking the time to respond. My first experience with Vivid Audio was back in 2015 at the RMAF where I heard the B1 orange coloured Oval speaker; I really enjoyed that system at the time....and became an instant fan of the Vivid brand. I did get to listen to one of the original Giya (series 1) speakers speakers at a local dealer several years ago, and thought they sounded very good at the time as well. Fast forward to this year, I had auditioned the Kiya 45 with Moon electronics, and was underwhelmed. The clarity and micro-details I was expecting to hear just wasn't there; it sounded veiled ....and for lack of a better word, cloudy....as if I were hearing the cabinet. You, and a couple other reviewers, have suggested the Kaya models as alternatives to the Giya series....but I'm really shying away from they Kaya based on my latest audition. With that said, the Giya G3 and G4 (series 2) are both on my list to seriously audition. I'm leaning towards the G3 simply because I think the G4 look so short. I'm also afraid the G4 might not provide enough low bass response, even though I don't play my system that loud. For my room, do you think the G3's would be too much speaker???? Do the Giyas perform well at lower volumes? @fleschler Yes, I have not had a chance to listen to the Acora SRC2. I spoke to my Acora dealer, and he had mentioned that the bass response between the SRC1 and SRC2 would be similar; the SRC2 was just meant for a larger room. I'm hoping to hear the SRB with the new sub module bases, as well as the SRC2 at Axpona. Thank you everyone for the suggestions! I have added them all to my list to audition next April. I'm just hoping I'll have enough time to visit all the rooms that I want to visit. |
You own it to yourself to audition the Linkwitz 521.4 system. In terms of 3-D staging and "being-there" (including powerful and tight bass), there is just nothing else out there. Your 12 feet room width is enough for correct placement of the speakers (3 ft, minimum from the side walls, min 5 feet between L and R). Check out the existing "Linkwitz Lounges) and invite yourself to the one next to you: https://linkwitz.store/blog/category/auditions/linkwitz-lounges/. And: there will be an all-acrylic version coming out soon (I am building one myself) which could be at the MoMA any time. Here is a view of my current system: https://linkwitz.store/blog/2023/01/20/new-linkwitz-lounge-in-fremont-ca/ (I built the speakers myself from the IKEA-type flats from Germany; no problem at all). If you happen to be in the Bay Area, feel free to drop in! |
I listened to the Magico A3 with hopes of bringing them home. Bass was exceptional but there was something weird in the midrange and treble that would have made them a downgrade overall. I then listened to the Borresen X2 and the difference was quite obvious. The Borresens were so much clearer, present, refined and more alive sounding. Put Borresen on your list. |
@calgarian5355 Authorized Vivid Audio dealer here. The G3 is a wonderful speaker, but as a word of caution… while the G2, G3, and G4 all seemingly have side ports, they are still angled so they fire towards the front wall. If you have 3ft behind them, that likely won’t be much of an issue, but if it’s less, you might. That said, in your space, you can also highly consider the Vivid Kaya 90, or even the smaller Kaya 45. Both speakers should be able to adequately fill that space, and their side firing ports truly fire sideways. I will say that to maintain the big voice of the G1 Spirits, the G3 and G4 push a lot more air out of their cabinets due to the constrains in size, so this makes for a big factor to consider, one which may make the Kaya a better fit for the space. The Kaya has a livelier presence, but the Giya is a bit smoother and more refined. Depending on the rest of the electronics pairing, they can both be winners in your space. But if you have a speaker that is pushing too much air into the space such that it cannot perform its best, then you are doing yourself a disservice. I will say that Vivid makes amongst the best speakers on the market, both for money and for cost no object. Happy to help in any way I can if you have more questions, either on this thread or via PM. |
@mbmi - I was just thinking that these speakers listed brought fond memories of demoing these fabulous sounding speakers. It’s giving me the itch to attend another major audio show like AXPONA. Attending Munich High-End which is moving to Vienna is on my bucket list, including hoping to someday hear a Vox Olympian. |
Your budget and sound tastes require you to audition speakers with your system (especially amps). Von Schweikert is coming out with a new speaker besides their Endeavor which is probably in your price range (80% of the VS high end sound). Also, the Acora SRC2 in a lesser cost stone frame I've heard had tremendous bass for 2 7" woofers. Great design and execution. |
I bid on a pair of vivid Giya b1 spirits including my Blades and some cash and when the dealer told me we were close I did a deep dive into the speakers to decide how much more to offer. I found a couple threads that scared me off. Several posters repeating service issues while suggesting the in house drivers that sound so good may not be as bulletproof as what could be expected at the retail price. I’ve got no experience with vivid and have read posts slamming my own speakers functional quality, so I take it all with a grain of salt, but I just realized how important brand familiarity i to me when buying used. |
I went through the same process while retiring. I ended up with JA Perspectives. Part of my decision was size look and sound. What I’ve found is I can’t afford the supporting equipment to truly understand how good these speakers are. This is a really good attribute from my perspective. Four years later I believe I own my end game system. Having the Perspectives has allowed me to compare and contrast Amps, DACs, Pre’s, cables, tubes, etc. Just my experience in my room. You really can’t make a bad choice, trust your ears and demo as much as you can. You will know when you know. Good luck! It’s a fun journey and enjoy retirement. It is way underrated! |
Kind of tough, demoed at 2 separate audio shows. My impression was that the Vimberg was more neutral, while the Gershman was very engaging- stayed for many songs while the designers/manufacturers married couple were being interviewed for an audio publication. All your speaker choices offer great sonics, it’s now more of a preference. I did demo the A3, but it seemed lightweight compared to the S5, M3. Early on, I did demo the Monitor Audio Platimum 300 - subjectively did many things well - high value speaker, but I was after a speaker that subjectively does all things well and that resinates with me AND fits with my budget…which I’ve blown many times 🙄 |
Why not Voxativ Ampeggio ? |
you really should go listen to the monitor audio platinum 200s or 300s they'll blow away the Magico, they're much more three-dimensional airy and spacious and more natural sounding they're very neutral and throw a much bigger enveloping sound stage, they make you feel like you're right in the middle of the performance, Magico is not even close in that respect. |
The small room is the problem. It is so easy to buy speakers for large rooms. My prior dedicated audio rooms were fairly large up to 26’ long with 15’ ceilings. For my smallish room, I have found that speakers with multiple smaller woofers provide all the bass that I need and not over power the room. Smallish woofers in the 6.5” to 7” range. Easy to drive, and you will get bass without the need to turning up the volume like you have to do with larger woofers. Good luck |
@kennyc Do you the know the Gershman 30th anniversary Grand compare to the Vimberg Mino Ds? I was reading up on the Gershman, and they have that bass trap that would appear to deal with bass in smaller rooms. Very interesting. @steve59 I know the movie The Fifth Element as well. The Giya totally reminds me of the blue opera singer; I actually really like the look of the Giyas! Lol. If they were a sealed design, it would be a done deal! I’ll have to listen to them carefully when I get a chance. I would order them in dark blue too! Thinking of the G3 now too; the G4 looks too small! |
@p05129 I wasn’t too concerned about overloading the bass given I already have the A3….and I don’t play my system that loud. I agree though, the s3 might be too big….which is why I’m also looking at the m2. |
+1 for PMC. I have the Fenestria. Big speakers that provide scale but can also play as precisely as monitors. Best of both worlds. You are right regarding the transmission line, these big speakers are super easy to integrate. My room is 18x14x7 and I was afraid they would be too big initially but the integration is perfect. Bass is phenomenal but not too strong for the room. They replace a pair of Monitor Audio Platinum G2 which are super great for the price. I'm a big fan of Joseph Audio too but the Fenestria are simply in another league. |
@kennyc Gershman is a Canadian company; I have heard of them previously, but have never had a chance to audition them. I will definitely add them to my Axpona list! I have read about the speaker...but I think they look a bit odd, especially with their wood grills. Being from Canada, I would love to support local if possible (Acora is Canadian too!) Thanks for the tip! @johnread57 I've owned the PMC OB1 speaker in the past....and loved it! I'll be sure to check their latest models. I like that the transmission line port faces forward....It allows for easier placement! @jdpalmer1 I've heard ProAc speakers in the past ...years ago and was impressed! I'll look for them at Axpona. Thanks! @vthokie83 @disc Yes! Joseph Audio is on the list....the Perspective and the Pulsar! I've read a ton of UK magazines giving awards to the Fyne speakers...but have never heard them in person; I'll definitely check them out! Thanks. @grislybutter Thanks for the great list of sealed speakers! Appreciate it! @steve59 I went to the RMAF in Denver in 2015 and heard the original B1! I loved that particular speaker....but I wished it had more bass....thus my interest in the Giya G3 and G4. I have to admit, I wasn't a big fan of the Kaya series when I auditioned them recently....so I wasn't sure if the Giya would live up to my expectations. I'll see when I check out their room at Axpona. |
