How to make the Focal Kanta No. 2 speakers sing?

+1 to the OP for the detailed question!  I have a good deal of experience with Focal.  They can sound quite good, very lively, in a properly treated room.  One thing that is too often overlooked is the point of reflection off the ceiling.  Untreated this yields an unwanted point of reflection of the highs which causes phase issues and thins the mids.  To get more out of the mids you might want to reposition the speakers to get more room gain.  I demoed the Kanta 3's  and thought they sounded fantastic.  They were being driven by tube/ss hybrid McIntosh MA352 and the pairing was lovely.  If you would like to keep the speakers I would look for a used MA352, they are usually available on the second hand market, and try your Eversolo analogue out into the amp.  Cheers and good luck.

Hi OP,

I haven’t had the Kanta’s but I have older Focal Towers 816V’s that I now use as my surround sound speakers, I have the 800v center.

I had the Electra 1028BE’s which prior to Focal revamping their line up was the trickle down speaker that had the Woofers / Tweeters found in their top line options. 
 

I struggled with what you are right now.  Highs were very pronounced, could be eerily smooth with the right recording but fatiguing with most.  Mid’s lacked, bass was there, deep, fast, punchy.  You’ll find Focal’s tend to lean toward the highs, fall into the more analytical camp.  They are also tougher to drive, especially if you want to get the most out of them, a better blend of Mid range to go with the Highs and lower region bass.  If they are slightly bright to you but you really love the sound signature, room treatment and changing your Amp will do the trick.  If you are further away from loving the sound signature than feeling like a few small tweaks will do the trick you’ll likely need to change your speakers.  I spent a lot of time and money chasing the right Pre / Amp / DAC combo and I still moved on from the Electra’a which many will hail as a tremendous speaker in the Focal line, blending in their top tier materials into a more affordable overall package.  Did I improve the performance of the speakers, mainly through amplification changes, absolutely, did it change the tweeter / tuning of the speakers being fatiguing, nope.  
 

If you are sure you want to keep the speakers, they’ll need amplification that isn’t all about Watts but impedance / handling difficult swings, loads.  Brands like Pass, Parasound, Coda, Music Fidelity, Mac, Krell, Hegel.  Naim is also often paired as they are owned by the same parent company.  You can find Amps today that won’t heat your room.  If you want to keep costs down, look for used Integrated units, Parasound Hint 6, Music Fidelity, a little pricier but a step up amplification / Pre wise, Coda, and the latest Krell would be fantastic fit, you can get it with a DAC.  You could also go all in one streamer, DAC Pre / Amp with Naim or Hegel, the Hegel 390 would be a great all in 1 solution. 
 

Amplification will make the biggest difference in performance followed by Room Treatment.  I tried those plus Room Correction andEQ’d things via Roon, still moved on.  A great recording that focused on vocals, I have never heard a speaker speak to me like the Electra’s with their BE Tweeters and I’ve cycled through some speakers, but I only loved them 10 % of the time as when I moved onto poorer recordings, rock and other genres they were fatiguing.  
 

So, I’ve lived what you are going through, you can warm them up, bring the mids more into the equation but that won’t change the highs, if they are really fatiguing now, that fatigue will still be there to a lower degree but there.  Best advice I got that I ignore for too long was only your ears matter, if the sound signature isn’t for you on a particular speaker you won’t be able gear or room treatment your way out of it.  

Good tips from everyone. I'm, taking them all in consideration.

@rick_n Yes good, point. The ceiling is the weakest link here, plasterboard... It's a living room so I can't put anything up there for diffusing either.

@mm1tt77 Wise words. Great to hear you experience. Thanks. This is really what it boils down to.

An easy next step as pointed out is to mess around with the Yamaha AVR and see how far EQ:ing takes me. In combination with REW and the Umik perhaps. If that turns out well it might be a path to walk down further. And after a proven concept, perhaps later on getting a better performing device with EQ / room acoustics tools built in.

What about putting a pre amp, be it tube based or not, in front of the Class D amp. Has anyone done that in a case like this to achieve a welcoming warmth to the sound? Some sound tuning possibilities is also good to have.

I have not really planned to invest more than a like 2000€-3000€ on gear at this moment. On what would that money best be spent in this case?

I’d try to demo a tube preamp at home if at all possible.

@donald_dac I have Focal Kanta 2s in a quite large room (3m x 5m). And am on the same journey as you. My journey, toward making the Focals sound warmer, and fuller and less fatiguing is ongoing. However, I have learned a few things along the way. The first was that adding REL subs made a big difference. They were hard to position and took quite a long time to break in, but they have made the biggest difference. I have the S/812s. But I over bought and should have bought the 510s.
Second, I moved to a Bryston 14 B3 amp from a Hegel H390. If I did it again, I would have bought the Bryston mono blocks as their input impedance is higher. Mistake!

Right now I have borrowed a tube preamp from my dealer who was exceedingly kind to lend it to me. That, combined with a tube DAC has made a difference. Even before switching from the Hegel integrated H390, the Lab 12 DAC 1 made an enormous difference. This is an inexpensive DAC from Greece that will not break the bank. Read the reviews! They are very positive.

Before my dealer lent me the DAC, I had bought an excellent sounding tube preamp from an Italian company called Synthesis, which totally brought the Focals to life. In a good way! But there was an impedance mismatch between the low input impedance on the Bryston and the slightly elevated output impedance on the Synthesis  but no doubt about it, that was the right preamp for the Focals.

My dealer has now ordered me a Pathos preamp, which I suspect will work well too.

A note on cables. They make a big difference. I upgraded my speaker cables to the DH labs Q 10. And also my amp power cable.

The Focals can sound amazing, but they need to be babied along on their journey to greatness.

As a Focal dealer, PLEASE treat your room first before you do anything else. Your room is more that 50% of what you are hearing. Once your room is treated correctly, you will be able to ascertain the differences between your components. Without treating your room, you haven't heard the Kantas yet.

There is science behind treating your room. Couches, rugs etc. don't treat the room correctly. Companies like Vicoustic will give you a package based on performance and aesthetics required. We do it all the time for our customers.

Drinking a nice wine out of a dixie cup tastes terrible. Put it in a Riedel glass and you are tasting what the wine maker created.

Chad

Some of these posts were nothing more than rehearsed diatribe about Focal speakers and the beryllium tweeter. Your speakers are fine, but they sound brand new and they will need some time to work in. In the meantime consider the following:

1. Your room acoustics have at least 50% to do with your room, treat it properly, it will make the biggest difference!
2. Try not to pair Focal speakers with Class D amplification, or at least pair them with a tube preamp. This will help with the mids and gentleness of delivery.
3. Adding 2 subs to your setup will really fill out the sound.

Last thing I will note in defense of the tweeter in your Focal Kantas is that they will deliver superb detail... it seems as though many audiophiles like calling this ’bright’. But I will stand by the sale of my Wilson speakers on my move to Focals for the detail that was never apparent in the former.

Do you use Roon? If so, with the addition of a ~ $150 microphone and freely available software, you could probably create a convolution filter to flexibly address any issues with frequency response in the room, at least when streaming with Roon.

That is what I would do personally in order to help get speakers better tuned in a room. I use canned convolution filters with Roon for specific highly regarded headphones and the results are transformational. I have researched but have not had time to try and create my own for room correction, though I will go out on a limb and say that any system out there save those that are already professionally tuned in one way or another can be made better to various degrees using a DSP based solution like that provided with Roon.

Other similar DSP solutions are possible, but for existing Roon users, this is a very powerful and cost effective solution if you are mostly streaming with Roon these days like me. Google Roon website for more info.

Room treatments to reduce energy in problem range as indicated above earlier is the other possibility but it’s hard to know to what extent this would have to be done and what the end cost would be in order to have desired affect. Personally, I would probably not hold on to any speakers that would require me to go to extreme length for room treatment, but that just me. DSP is much more practical these days if needed.

Or rather than go to the nth degree to get the speakers tuned to the room, a simple graphic equalizer could surely at least make things better. Schitt sells one these days that is not expensive and has been very well received. Many other software based eq solutions are possible.

I would second trying a tube preamp along with tube DAC, the Lab 12 DAC 1 or something from MHDT, I had a balanced MHDT tube DAC that did make a noticeable difference. 
 

I would still stand by shifting away from your current Amp and to something that is known to drive speakers with difficult loads, impedance swings.  In my research, found a good amount of people with real world experience that echoed this, it made the biggest difference for me, gear wise.  There is also a lot of truth in room treating but I think you are in the same boat I am, it’s a shared living space and you can only room treat a certain extent before the family will shut it down.  
 

I’d also be weary of anyone making absolute statements, Focal makes amazing speakers, they are designed and built in house, likely one of the if not the top Speaker company when it comes to their ability to scale, making really high quality speakers with outstanding engineering, R&D, craftsmanship and synergy.  That said, they have a sound signature, not everyone loves Focals, if you aren’t in love with the sound signature, which does lean into the hyper detailed side of things, even with the room treated properly and the right electronics, you likely won’t love the speakers.  That’s why different speaker manufactures have varying philosophies, sound signatures.  Take Sonus Faber as a compare and contrast to Focals, in general, if you are a big Sonus Faber fan, you won’t be a big Focal fan.  Both are high end speaker manufactures in Europe with Focal likely having an edge due to their vertical integration on just about every component in their speakers but you’ll still have a decent percentage of buyer pick Sonus Faber based on a preference toward a more laid back, warmer sounding speaker. Neither is right or wrong. 
 

I think the plan around using your Yamaha receiver is a great place to start.  Do some research on room treatment, you can try some DYI things out form a temporary basis along with using the Yammy, that should give you the baseline to decide if the speakers are right for you and that is absolutely all that matters, your ears, what sounds good to you.  When I sold the Electra’s I had was to a new Audiophile, he had nothing but the speakers, I ended up hooking up an old Yammy HT receiver I had, didn’t have Room Correction, he listens to the Yammy, A/B against a Parasound A21 and Primaluna 400 Evo Integrated, he bought the Yammy from me for $ 50 and last check was still using it to power the speakers.  If you do keep them and you want to stay in your budget, I would look at used Parasound a21’s, the older version is a really good deal, jump into a used Tube Pre, that combo would work wonders for the Kanta’s and what you are trying to accomplish.  You could then upgrade the Streamer / DAC at a later date and the Pre if you got the itch.  The Parasound A21 isn’t the best Amp out there but for the $$, used, you will have a really hard time beating the value for what you are looking to accomplish, high quality parts, designed by a legend in the industry, A/B amplification that is beefy and leans slightly to the warm side of the spectrum.  I have no bias towards Parasound, I’ve cycled through a ton of gear, I don’t own any Parasound gear at the moment, I did however use an A21 with multiple Focal Towers, again, wasn’t my favorite but for the money and I bought mine new, it from a value play, beat everything else I had, hands down. 
 

Good Luck! 

@pennfootball71 100% agree that the Parasound JC5 is a great match, that's what powers my Kanta 3s. And there's plenty of lowend. Getting speaker placement dialed in with basic room treatment is crucial but that's far from unique to Kantas.

Good input from everyone.

It seems that the Class D amp I have now is not really recommended at all in this setup. Noted. 😁 Also a few Parasound amp recommendations have come in. That might very well be a way forward. A used one seems to be possible to get here in Sweden too. The positive here is also that the sound when watching movies is affected when using the Yamaha as Pre and a Parasound as front speaker amp.

Also trying out a tube preamp would be a interesting. I will see if I can get hold of one for testing.

I'm not using Roon, but the "canned convolution filters" that you mention @mapman is worth some more reading up on. Never heard of these filters.

And as mentioned more room treatment is on the list. I will fire away an email to GIK and see what they have to recommend that is not too obtrusive and has a medium WAF at least. A level up is needed. I have sometimes put up some temporary generic absorbing panels (I have 12 pieces of 0,5m x 0,5m standard "ceiling absorbing panels" lying around for testing) for first reflections and center stage and it makes a difference. With correct positioning and tailored panels here the effect should be more noticeable.

Also the digital path for "treating the room" is interesting with all the kinds of devices out there. YPAO / Dirac / MiniDSP:s/ ...

I owned the Focal Sopra 2’s for several years and I thought they sounded great!

I used Bob Carver M350 tube amps with them and had the room treated with Stillpoint Apertures and ASC Tube traps. I also selected cabling that matched the sound I liked with that set-up.

Think of it as a complete system that needs to mesh together to get the sound you like.

With My Sopra’s it was easy.

P.S I also thought the Townshend podiums helped make the Focal's "sing".

ozzy

Last thing I will note in defense of the tweeter in your Focal Kantas is that they will deliver superb detail... it seems as though many audiophiles like calling this ’bright’.

No one doubts Focal’s capabilites (going the whole nine yards, building drivers from scratch, etc) as a manufacturer. Their speakers also look good and address WAF issues. The "bright" is a voicing they seem to go for...Maybe, they wanna be the European Klipsch and please the V-curve+recessed mids/holed mids crowd. Well, to be fair, that’s where the biggest market share is perhaps.... when dudes forged in the flames of V-curve lifestyle products get into "audiophile grade" items. Such a dude can’t be rehabilitated from the V that easy! (better cater to them 😁)...

Making them bright has always been a way of fooling the crowd that the sht’s "detailed". Typically, high detail/resolution/clarity can be achieved more easily with a capable tweeter that can play very low, 1800 to 2000Hz or lower....i.e, a small driver ( assoc. improved impulse response, etc) covering that range and up, when speakers are built to a price point, etc, etc

@ozzy Definitely agree on footers, I tried and am still on Herbies gliders and it made a noticeable improvement in bass and bringing more midrange out. 

I personally never liked anything from Yamaha too analytical, and you have them paired to an analytical set of speakers. One of my dealers told me that the Kanta three is the only one to buy

First thing I would do is lose the Yamaha and find something warmer don't just buy something for the name always pair a warm amp/preamp to Bright speakers and a bright amp to warm speakers.. I have had good luck with Amazon unlimited music. They'll give you a 3-month trial

Also how long have you had these speakers have you burned them in well enough ..4 to 6 months

I heard the kantas 2s on a Mcintosh 12000 at the hifi store. Those speakers had incredible bass. And it was not bright at all. It sounded so good I fell in love with it and I'm going to buy that setup. I think your problem is probably your amp because those speakers have incredible bass. It is so deep with rich mid lows 

@mfili35 They are 3+ years old and have at least 1000 hours on them. Probably 2000.

@dman777 That McIntosh looks like it Green Goblin's espresso machine 😀 Beautiful piece and probably sounds like how it looks. Just a tad over my budget though. About 10 times. I wonder what that amp does so right and if there is a shortcut to get in that direction on a slimmer budget.

I agree on the bass, it's controlled, fast and fun to listen to. Lower mids and a sterile sound is the main problem for me.

Its the speakers man. This is a common complaint with focal. Before you soend a ton of money on room treatment etc etc - TRY a tube pre. I would purchase a freya + (with the TUNGSTOL tubes) a great pre for the price (cheaper than installing a bunch of room treatment and you can return it if it doesnt do the trick). If it doesnt warm the system up then youll have a better idea that its the speakers. It try to borrow a tube integrated and try that. Best of luck!

Lower mids and a sterile sound 

I meant the setup had excellent lower mids. It's making it hard for me to decide between the kanta 2s and the sopra 1s because I like the lower mids so much on the Kanta 2s. 

The sound was not sterile at all for me, even with the EQ bypassed. 

I had Kanta 3s which I purposely moved to from Harbeth 30.2s for a more forward and brighter sound. Even with hybrid tube electronics (BHK 300s).  I eventually moved to Rockport Atria ii but now have Tannoy Kensingtons with Pathos Heritage MKIi hybrid integrated which to my ears is a much less fatiguing sound with no loss of inner voicing etc.  I also had Focal 706V bookshelfs.  I think a the sound you are experiencing is very much the Focal house sound   

Amplifiers, preamplifiers, DACs make very expensive tone controls. And especially when you're trying to address the fundamental voicing of your speakers. Getting your room treatments right is never a bad idea, do I'd start there. And if that doesn't address your issues, then it's speaker shopping time.

I agree with soix that the amplifier may be the reason for what the OP is hearing. It's not that there aren't great-sounding Class D amps out there—I just wrote up the TIDAL Intra, and Bruno Putzeys certainly knows what he's doing—but these products aren't inexpensive. I reviewed the Kanta No 2s myself about eight years ago and got excellent results with Pass 60.8s and a T+A DAC/preamp, two products appropriately priced for the kind of system you'd expect to see the Kantas in.

Definitely do not give up on the Focals and  go looking for speakers that will sound good with your amplifiers. That's the tail wagging the dog.

BTW, soix can be a bruising combatant—I've been on the receiving end—but he is an experienced listener with informed viewpoints. It's usually beneficial when he rings in.

Andy Quint

TAS

I have a pair of 1028BE II and the way some people in here speak is as if Focal dropped in quality big time when making the Kanta. 
 

I don’t believe that for a second, but I also know that my speakers don’t have a thin midrange. They do have crystal clear highs though. That can be an issue for some people for sure. 
 

Ive paired mine with a Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum and a Macintosh MA6500. Preferred the MA6500. Wish I’d never let it go, but the CM more then gets the job done when I’m listening to vinyl. They’re usually hooked up to a Powernode and that makes them sound just fine. Plus, I don’t know if people are still weird about tone controls around here, but the Powernode has them if so desired. I’ve found them helpful in certain situations. They’re basically poor man’s sound correction but I find they get the job done just fine. 
 

Good luck with your journey. A lot of the fun is getting to the destination. 

It’s the tweeter. Sure, treatment can help. I had the sopras for 3.5 years and they heavily bled my ears. I tried everything and at the end I sold them.

This is a good tread. Reminds us to address the weak links in our audio chain and to address the room.

Agree that the OP needs to deal with both room and electronics (pre and amp).

@deep_333 I admired  your detail effort to help to OP use what he already has to save $, but I agree with @soix that the OPs pre-amp are significantly sub par to the level of his Focal speakers.

Sorry @donald_dac , no free lunch. You’re going to have to spend some time and resources to get your Focals to sing.  If you give us a budget, we’d be able to narrow your choices.

+1 Hegel - would likely solve the OPs electronics problem. A used H360 or H390 with a DAC (rated very good) is a great option. 

Do you remember if the 936s sounded better after time?  I think my 926s did

Tube amp and pre-amp.

Tube amp and tube preamp!!!

Hybrid81, I had the Electra’s as well.  What people are likely referring to is the Electra’s 1028’s and 1038’s truly had trickle down design, materials from the top of the Focal’s, the BE Tweeter, the woofer design and materials were found in the speaker lines above the Electra.  When Focal fazed the Electra’s out and introduced the Kantas that was no longer the case.  The Kanta’s are great speakers made with fantastic materials, fit, finish and engineering but you aren’t as close to the models above the Kanta’s as you were with the Electra’s.  
 

Riie, I agree, I ended up going in a different direction, couldn’t take the tweeters in the Focal BE tweeters.  

I also find the newer generation JM Lab Focal speakers bright and thin especially in lower midrange.  To me, the price range focal now suggests for their speakers is quite exaggerated compared to the sound quality they give.  

BTW, soix can be a bruising combatant—I’ve been on the receiving end—but he is an experienced listener with informed viewpoints. It’s usually beneficial when he rings in.

@aquint Heh heh. Thanks, I think. FWIW I think you’re one of the best pure writers in the audio biz and am always impressed with (and, if I’m being honest, a bit jealous of) your writing talent. Really enjoyed your video review of the BACCH tech BTW — supremely interesting stuff that. I’m frankly afraid to try it for fear of being wrecked for life as an audiophile. It seems almost that big from what you and others have said. Not to sidetrack this, but what say you on that?

I had similar issues when I upgraded from Focal 1038BE to Sopra 2. The 1038's were pretty good, really musical, forgiving and likable. The Sopra 2 were anything but. They were etched, cold, analytical and not at all musical. I almost hated them and could never get them to sound remotely as good as the 1038- and I was running them on a Pass 250.8 amp and other unquestionably good, musical electronics. After a year I sold the Sopras thankfully and got into Harbeth which were great. Unfortunately I think the issue is the speaker in your case - and- your electronics are not an ideal match for an already etched, thin and analytical speaker. 

@soix It is off-topic, but such an important issue that I’ll comment here and now. Maybe the subject can get its own thread at some point.

It’s an important issue, I think, because some members of our audiophile tribe have gone a bit overboard about what’s called "immersive audio." This approach to spatiality is technologically innovative and certainly can be a great deal of fun with film. But with music, I think the jury is out. I’ve been interested in multichannel music for some time (I have more than 4000 surround sound recordings) and, based on what I’ve been able to hear on Apple Music, Dolby Atmos is not the greatest thing since sliced bread. I’ve noticed that some of the most vocal Atmos fans don’t seem to have that much previous experience with discreet MC playback and thus have a credible basis for their extreme advocacy. With most musical material, "object based" surround sound doesn’t represent some quantum leap forward. I may be one of the few audio guys who actually has Atmos playback up and running and isn’t ga-ga about it. I haven’t checked in with Kal R in a few months—he’s the authority, as far as I’m concerned—but I sense he’s taking a measured approach as well.

That’s part of it. The other part is that my consumption of multichannel music has fallen off since I discovered SOTA crosstalk cancellation - that is, BACCH. I’m not talking as much about the "dummy head" recordings that Dr. Choueiri plays at audio shows to pique interest in his products but the effect the filter has on most "regular" recordings, even synthetic studio concoctions. XTC doesn’t add anything, it recovers spatial information that was there all along. It wears well and doesn’t seem gimmicky. And if you’re capable with audio software you don’t have to buy an expensive component (like the BACCH-SP)—you can purchase the XTC filter to run on your iOS music computer, whatever that is.

So, yes. Traditional two-channel audiophiles, uninterested in either discreet multichannel or Dolby Atmos for all the usual reasons, should at least investigate XTC as a way to extract the greatest degree of spatiality possible from the system and recordings they already own.

Andy Quint

Building on my other response to you here. I wouldn't waste money on room treatment either. I did during my Sopra 2 "problem"- it made no difference- the speakers were always etched and non involving regardless - no amount of treatment will fix problems rooted in the tweeter and cone material of a particular speaker. The difference between the Sopra 2 and the Harbeth SH5 Super that I replaced them with was extraordinary btw- the Harbeth seemingly were an "old school" basic box speaker but wow- so musical and engaging- I LOVED them and had them for a few years before the inevitable "move on to something new" but I may buy another pair again - they were that good - and they are not overly picky about electronics- but really sing with better electronics if that makes sense. 

Would bi-amping (class D brute plus tube) help?

Interesting how much difference a room makes! I brought home a pair od Kanta 3's for a couple weeks, used a hegel H360 to drive them. I loved the upper mids and treble, but was also troubled by lightweight upper bass, A huge boost in mid bass and no bass below 80 hz! The speakers were +10 db at 100 hz flat at 80 hz and had a slight -40 db recovery at a room node around 60 db making them sound to lightweight for my room. I've had other speakers that don't have proper weight for male vocals and I never could use digital eq to get the sound right. Room treatment and placement are probably your best bet. I owned the parasound a21 for a bit and that amp does add chestiness to everything it amplified, so a possible band aid also.

Saturday update: HiFi store visit. Sopra No.2 / Naim test

Yesterday I went to a dealer an hour away to check their store out and get some additional input to my questions. The store had a lot of different Focal speakers as well as Dynaudio, Sonus Faber, Audiovector among others.

In one heavily treated room (too much?) there was a setup with a pair of Sopra No. 2:s connected to a big stack of Naim New Classic 300 series gear (50 000€+). When it started playing I immediately noticed the Focal signature that I have at home with the brighter type of sound and the same feeling of lacking lower mids. The feeling after a few songs was that it could really have been my Kanta 2:s playing in that room, maybe sized up a notch. The bass felt a a tad slower but heavier. The overall sound signature was the same type as I'm used to, although exaggerated. I felt that the system to be even more in the fatiguing league than the Kantas. The volume was cranked up quite a lot though. Sound stage in that treated room (bass traps, wall absorbers, diffusers, absorptive ceiling ) was more compact, like a thicker/fuller wall of sound in front of me than I'm used to in my living room.

In another room (not as treated) there was a lower end floor standing Focal speaker setup (probably Vestia No.2) driven by an AXXESS Forte all-in-one box. This system didn't play as confidently as the Sopra system and it had a bit more boxiness and harder treble to the sound, as probably could be expected.

I regret that I didn't ask for another speaker brand to play next to the Sopras, like a pair of good Dynaudio:s, just to hear the contrast between the different "house sound signatures". I might very well go there again for this reason.

To sum the trip up, my takeaways and impressions:

• Even with a lot more expensive and "recommended" electronics (Naim) and a treated room, the sound signature I have at home with my current setup is really there.

• Makes me think that the electronics I have isn't that bad (in comparison to Naim at least).

• Sopras deliver even more of the "Kanta signature" in the mids (even less lower mids) and top (even "more" details/treble). Bass is a bit fuller/deeper but slower. Sopra's sound is more detailed (and fatiguing). The room could have fooled me though as I didn't hear the Kantas at the same time.

• If comparing Kanta No.2 to Sopra No.2, Kantas are the better choice for me.

• I will look into acoustic treatment of my room more. The effect in the demo room convinced me.

• The trip made my Kantas sound better to me. One of the cheapest tweaks so far, 😀

BTW: The dealer is arranging a few Naim events now where they were asked by the distributor to demo the Naim New Classic 300 series electronics with the Kanta No. 2. I asked why they didn't want the dealer to demo the electronics with the Sopra No. 2 or No. 3 that they also have in the store, but the dealer didn't really know the reason. A guess was to keeping the total system cost down.

Saturday update No.2: Acoustical treatment

I got a quick response from an acoustical treatment company. After having looked at a simple 3D model of my room they recommended, apart from tips for speaker and listening position positioning (1650€ in total):

• Bass traps in back wall corners

• Bass trap-diffusor-absorber behind listening position

• Early & First Reflection Point wall absorbers

• Absorbers behind speakers

As mentioned my room is a family living room, so I have to choose my way forward here carefully, mainly with WAF in mind.

To test the concept further I also placed some temporary 8 pieces 0,5x0,5m absorbing panels on chosen locations in the room. Mainly treating first wall reflections and an absorber behind me calmed the sound down. The treble and room reverb is taken down. This makes the midrange appear better and the sound is less fatiguing as well as the sound stage is more precise. As expected. This is really a way forward.

The risk with accepting the whole suggested package above is that it will be too much as I already have a big fabric covered sofa and a big carpet in the room. I believe I will gradually increase the room treatment and evaluate.

Hi OP,

I’m a big fan of bass traps when needed, and they often do make big improvements, but the big issue you have already felt is excess mid/treble energy.

First reflection points are important but you need a certain amount of critical mass of absorbers to change the tonal balance in the room. Audiophiles often focus on first reflection points, but my experience is that alone they do almost nothing. They need the rest of the room to be treated to really feel their benefit.

If your attempt is to minimize changes to the room, I would add more absorbers and forego bass traps for now. Also, GIK offers some very decorative solutions that let you pick your own artwork.

Consider also combination absorbers / diffusors between the speakers, while focusing on absorbers on the sides as well as the ceiling between the listener and speaker. Not only does treating the ceiling add height to the images but they are a great, unseen space to add more absorption in the bands you care about.  In the case of the Focals, that tweeter has the same excess mid-treble energy vertically as horizontally.  With my previous pair treating the ceiling was a really big improvement over the sides alone.

I had these speakers for awhile and the Gaia II’s made a HUGE difference. If you can find them used, it’s a $500-$600 tweak and the difference for me was night and day. 

I pair my Kanta 2's with a MacIntosh integrated, which provides a bit of a warmer sound to begin with.  I thought the highs were almost perfect but there was some thinness in the mids and even lows.  I added a Rel subwoofer and now I'm pretty happy with th sound.

@donald_dac Do you know anything about the way Lyngdorf utilizes, (what they call), their "voicing" 's?

It would be very complicated for me to explain to you the way it works, because the way they approach what most people refer to as "tone control" is literally a completely different ballgame. Period.

It's such a completely different approach that (I guess?) unless you've used it, my experience is, you can't appreciate how it works.

But it is exactly what you're asking for.

I have been the very proud owner of a TDAI 2170 for about two months, so I'm speaking from experience.

You should check out their approach. I want to personally recommend that you look at a (used) MP-40. The processor will so deftly allow you to reduce the higher frequencies which will have the "effect" of taming those fatiguing highs.

It's cool stuff. Very expensive, but very cool. Lol.

I've been using my 2170 with a pair of very high performing bookshelf speakers, running them full range w/ no sub at all. Hence I've been using their "Bass 2 voicing" as opposed to Bass 1 or Neutral. You have to see the curve, to appreciate it. Go online I'm sure you'll be immersed in a much better explanation of how their "voicings" work.

Not sure if you've ever heard he saying that you don't know what you don't know? But that's what's going on here. I'm personally excited for you to discover a solution so you can appreciate those sexy Kanta's.      : ) 

@donald_dac I'll leave it to you, to read reviews etc. to learn the pros and cons of going that direction.

It would be interesting to hear what your family says about the experience of only using the front 3 speakers until you figure out how you're going to amplify a couple of the other speakers you already have.

What will create such a different listening experience for you using anything Lyngdorf is their Room Perfect software. Again, I encourage you to read about how completely easy it is to setup and use in the real world. And how good.

One review I read said they didn't call it Room Good or Room Great because it performs so well it should be called Room Perfect. 

Can't wait to hear what you decide to do!

Dude, you realize you’re now bending over backwards and going through a lotta crap to try to accommodate speakers that clearly aren’t inline with your tastes, system, and/or room. The writing is clearly on the wall — stop contorting yourself into uncomfortable positions/situations and just ditch the damn speakers! You’re just polishing the turd, so accept it and get rid of the turd and get on with your audiophile life. Or keep trying to polish the obvious turd in the room. You’re fighting a losing and potentially expensive battle here for no good reason. Move on and be happy.  Sorry, but it’s now obvious and somebody’s just gotta just say it.  

I have to agree with @soix , because I've been in the same situation myself with a pair of Focus Audio towers from Canada. I regret the time that I wasted trying to make them work in my room with my system, and all because they had great reviews and I thought that they just had to work.

….immersive audio..,,, I think the jury is out. 

And if you’re capable with audio software you don’t have to buy an expensive component (like the BACCH-SP)—you can purchase the XTC filter to run on your iOS music computer, whatever that is.

@aquint 

Thanks for giving us your better educated perspective . Current Immersive audio seems like a major sonic step down from a dedicated 2 channel system although it can be fun. To lift the immersive sonics both in speakers and electronics such as Perlisten and Trinnov, is significantly expensive.

I felt like I hit the jackpot when I purchased the Linn/DSM2 w Organik DAC upgrade. BAACH looked interesting, but the BAACH-SP was priced way out of my comfort zone.  I wasn’t sure if I can buy then work the software separately, thanks for letting me know this option.  I would love to try BAACH with my current DAC.
 

@soix 

+1

@kennyc

I felt like I hit the jackpot when I purchased the Linn/DSM2 w Organik DAC upgrade. BAACH looked interesting, but the BAACH-SP was priced way out of my comfort zone. I wasn’t sure if I can buy then work the software separately, thanks for letting me know this option. I would love to try BAACH with my current DAC.

To be clearer about BACCH options: Theoretica Applied Physics, which makes the expensive BACCH-SP (in several versions) and the really expensive Grand BACCH-SP also sells several versions of what’s called BACCH4Mac that are far less costly – for under $5K, you can get the loudspeaker option with the hand-built in-ear microphones, head tracking capability (you provide the webcam) and, of course, the XTC software. For the really uncertain and/or thrifty, there’s a software-only version (BACCH4Mac Intro) that’s priced just under $1000 that bases the "3D audio rendering" on distance measurements (with a tape measure) of your listening geometry, rather than in-ear acoustic measurements. It's not the full BACCH experience but a decent approximation.

Visit the Theoretica web site for full details.