How much do I need to spend to make vinyl sound better than digital?

Clearaudio concept would be a good choice. Hana SL I have one , in my system it’s fast and very musical. One cart I like Ortofon bronze cart.

@mulveling 

You nailed it perfectly. It isn’t always about chasing the last few percent of fidelity. Sometimes, it’s about remembering that even a modest setup, when well-matched and emotionally resonant, can unlock the magic just as deeply as a high-end rig. The Fluance + Trumpet combo proves that.

The real trick is knowing when you’re chasing clarity versus when you’re chasing control. One leads to discovery. The other, sometimes, to dissatisfaction.

I am using a $1K phono with a $8500 cart so the whimsical notion of spending 2 or 3 times doesn’t carry much weight. It’s all about synergy and implementation of a components than a suggested retail price. The $1K phono trounced a highly touted $12K phono in my system. 

I can't understand why one would want to induce a competition between digital and vinyl in building up a system. Assuming one is lacking a nearly unlimited budget why would you divide limited audio funds to  two sources. I'd devote my limited budget into one source, get that to whatever my reference quality is, then perhaps work on the second source. Both vinyl and digital can be one's sole reference these days, no need for a second source. On the other hand, I can understand having both as there are unique qualities to each. 

The main issue besides the funding issue for the hardware is the cost and availability of the music for each, vinyl far more costly than streaming, and far less content to choose from. I have over 3k vinyl, took me years to build to this, and so many titles unavailable to me even back in the day. I have vast numbers of streams that I could never find on vinyl. I simply don't get large expenditures on vinyl setup for anything less than a vinyl collection in the multi thousands.

@lalitk What are the $1K and $12K phono stages you mentioned? Thanks.

@macg19 

PM sent! 

“I'd devote my limited budget into one source, get that to whatever my reference quality is, then perhaps work on the second source”

@sns 

Solid advice! 

@lalitk thanks and agree with you on the solid advice from @sns 

So where’s the OP. Comments/suggestions made, questions to the OP asked and, nothing but crickets 

Vinyl sucks because it limits your choices.  If you're lucky to get a good digital quality recording streamed it's OK infinite choices.

Spending more money as a rabbit hole.  You'll never get an answer to this question.

No such thing imo, most difference is due to mastering, and vintage records which were mastered really well. What you can try to is to get on par with your digital. But it’s gonna be more expensive, digital is much more affordable now to  get to a good level. 
 

I have moved up the vinyl ladder over the last 20 years and I can tell you things get a lot more sensitive when you get up in the $5,000 and over range. Hopefully you have a lot of clean great sounding original records, because if your comparing today’s horribly pressed,recorded,mastered vinyl records then your getting a really dim view of what vinyl can be.

I would stay in the $1500 range for a turntable and add $500-700 for a great cartridge then $1200 for a decent phono stage, add some real records and Walla!

P.S. I like REGA, Dynavector, Musical surroundings. for what its worth.

P.S. The reason we own vinyl and stream digital is because with vinyl the albums/songs are always there exactly how they are suppose to be, no altered,  or updated, or changed or even removed altogether music you love, that’s the digital way...you don’t own squat!

And when the power goes out you better have CD’s and a player if you wanna hear music! The Internet will not work even if your house has a generator, but a CD player will,  Haha...(not kidding really)

Matt M

Phone will still work in most cases, just disengage the wi-fi. The sound won't be too good, though.

$1k phono stage will sound better than $12k phono stage only if the latter is not turned on. The other theoretical possibility is that $12k price tag is a joke and reflects nothing. Could be, though I haven't heard of such extremes.

Your digital investment x 3 should get you pretty close.

How many licks does it take to get to the center of a Tootsie pop?

The world may never know.

(although since @middlemass is a verified musical financial genius, I would bet on $5477.36)

This is an odd question and makes me believe you were led down the wrong path. Analog SHOULD sound slightly different than digital. There is no better, just different.

In analog, there is measurable distortion. But it is a distortion that is pleasing to many people's ears, hence why many people prefer it to digital (which does not carry that same distortion). The premise of your question is out way off base. If you don't like the sound of analog over digital, than just go digital.

@mattmiller "The Internet will not work even if your house has a generator"

This may well depend upon the type and capacity of the particular generator ,and what is hooked up to it. I have a 22kwh natural gas backup generator and the internet works just fine when the power goes out as the internet gear is on lines that the generator powers

Ah, as always the interesting topic. I say, if one is DIY orientated one can rewire an old SME, build a cool plinth for a Garrard 301. Spend some $ for say a Ortofon SPU. Make sure your interconnects are good quality. Perhaps a Aesthetix phono stage. That setup if done right won't set you back too much and sound great. 

Now, the Digital vs say a first press UK of a 70's rock band on that setup? Frankly it's ALWAYS up the the individual pressing IMO. That said, I do reach reach for the vinyl more that streaming or other digital. BUT I do play both. 

Is take time and effort to get the vinyl system right.

change few tables till i found the wow moment, i still remember that system.

ballpark price right around $5K :

VPI Classic 1 $3k

Musical surrounding nova phono $1k

Dynavector 20X2L cart $1k 

Since then I know what I want, also that system stay for few years.

Still playing records till now but better components.

cheers
 

teac phono PE505 is much better than many expensive, often just for shiny optics reason in many ways: https://teac.jp/int/product/pe-505/spec

It's not primarily budget.  Sure you can't build it out of soup cans and wire, but good sound is more about knowledge and effort and not $$$.

It's not primarily budget.  Sure you can't build it out of soup cans and wire, but good sound is more about knowledge and effort and not $$$.

But once you obtain the knowledge you've gotten too smart for your own good, and the $$$ comes into play in a bigger way. :)

Spend as much as you can on your vinyl front end also include software and ultrasonic cleaning machine. You only live once.

These are the critical variables, with what mine sell for approximately (not anywhere near what I really paid) at retail:

- cartridge - $9,900

- tonearm - $900

- table - 2,400

- phono stage - $900

- tubes for phono stage - $1,200

TOTAL: $15,300  

Synergy MATTERS.

Milage WILL vary: I’m guessing entry to what you are looking for is $10,000. A lot less if you are patient, like I was, and CAREFULLY buy floor demos or used. 
 

I have 6,000+ LPs. At $25 an LP (many worth less, many worth more, some worth much more), that is about $150,000 worth. 
 

I listen to vinyl 95% of the time. CDs 4%. Online/streaming: 1%. I have so much invested in vinyl that I don’t have time or interest in exploring other platforms. 

Let me make (the vinyl and digital) clear.

If you like any music record which is not available as digital form, then you have no choice, and have to play LP records. And, you need to spend some reasonable money to get decent sound (music).

If your favorate music is available as both analog and digital, go to digital form. Tha's it. 

For example, I like 1990's K-pops, which were sold as analog and digital form. I do have both forms of exact music (same singer, same year, same recording, etc). The digital is FAR superior to the LP!. If you like Tammy Wynette,songs, and if there are two versions, one from Tammy Wynette and another recorded from just your wife. For the real nice music, do you play your wife's recording?

Digital is far, far better recording media to analog. The music source is most important.

I have ca. 1,000 LPs. I got from mostly "Everyday Music". 50c each. So, ~$500.

I cannot say possession of $150,000 is stupid, but also I refrain to say that was wise.

The 1,000 LPs give me really emotional music pleasure. I can say this is wise.

I spent 7k. CA performance dc hana ml (low output).

detail is amazing,

small acoustic ensembles are any vinyl’s strength.

FWIW i only by vinyl from analog masters, so most purchases from discogs.

Although there are people that swear that digital in vinyl sounds wonderful as well.

Note to Lousyreeds1: Vinyl & Dig to do right are actually two different hobbies. To do both right is extremely expensive. One can dabble in one or the other of course but to get into the weeds on both at once and listen to any music takes a lot of time and money. 

Best JS

Yes.

How much do I need to spend to make vinyl sound better than digital?

@r27y8u92 "I have ca. 1,000 LPs. I got from mostly "Everyday Music". 50c each. So, ~$500."

Interesting, their Discogs website indicates that they have 3280 vinyl records, only 55 under $5, and none below $3.99

"If you like any music record which is not available as digital form, then you have no choice, and have to play LP records. And, you need to spend some reasonable money to get decent sound (music)."  "The 1,000 LPs give me really emotional music pleasure. I can say this is wise."   

These statements seem to contradict one another, as well as, the very first statement   as you stated that you only paid an average of $.50.

The 1,000 LPs:

1,000 = the number of LPs, not $1,000.

@r27y8u92  "The 1,000 LPs:

+1 @ozzy62 

&

as a cyclist I can not tell you how many times I have told someone to pay for a proper fitting before you start paying $$$  for gear that saves you minimal weight .  One friend told me that the local bike shop was telling him to lose the 15 pounds in his belly before he drops an extra $3K on the lightest bike frame. The honesty won him over!

Same can be said for this hobby.

I've owned/currently own everything from a Rega RP1 to an Avid Acutus Reference turntable, an AT3600 to an Ortofon Diamond cartridge, a Jancane to a McIntosh MP1100 phono preamp, and the standard house garbage that comes with every budget turntable to a Kuzma 4Point 11 tonearm.
I definitely agree vinyl sounds better than ANY digital format (and I've tried 'em all), but you gotta spend at least $2000 (around $700 each for tt/cart/pre).
Looks like you should look at spending double what you have now. I'd REALLY think twice. Vinyl is a money pit.

Vinyl is a money pit.

This hobby is a money pit. The word “done” can be elusive for many of us 

Until you can hear a difference that makes you say that's better price does not always signify a better sound. I purchased a PS audio phono stage for about 3K

Then replaced it with a Pass Labs 27  for me it was not that much more revealing considering the huge difference in price.

I have a Rega P6, Ortofon 2M Black (shibata) cart, McIntosh MX113 phono/preamp on my primary system. My other phono setup is a Marantz TT-15 with Clearaudio Wood Ebony cart and a Harmon-Kardon 330c receiver, so "less robust".  I keep my records as clean as a 60 year old house not updated permits.

My digital playback at home with any transport and either DAC doesn't come close to the vinyl playback of like-titles unless a specific CD mastering is insanely good. I own 60 SACDs and 35 DVD-A, so I'm no digi-phobe.

"$3,000" minimum.  

Technics 1200 MK VII

Hana ML

Lehmann Audio Black Cube SE II.  

To sound as good as digital vinyl requires life like dynamics which do not come cheaply- a LOMC cartridge is a must as is a good clean phono preamp.  The Technics tables also bring excellent energy to the "table".  You get the smoothness of vinyl with the dynamic clarity of digital.  

@r27y8u92 

“I cannot say possession of $150,000 is stupid, but also I refrain to say that was wise.”

Is that directed at me? You are making a value judgement on how many records someone owns? Really?

I hesitate to suggest what you may think of one friend of mine who has 14,000 LPs, all Afro Cuban. Or another friend, a famous and highly regarded journalist, who has 27,000 LPs. They must both be at the very least, very very very unwise? 

For the record, I have been collecting since the age of 11. I will soon be 71.  So that’s about 100 a year. 

A ton of money to get it to sound as good...I just did it and I say forget it.Records blow as far as sound quality in most you find used and new ones are ridiculous in price compared to digital. 

There's no getting away from the harsh reality that vinyl is expensive. To acquire a second hand turntable that matched my streaming set up, cost the equivalent of $11,000 last year. Then I spent $4,000 more on upgrading it. No doubt, there'll be further expensive when the cartridge wears out 

That was an extravagance that I couldn't really afford. Yet I feel it was worth the expense. There's something special about listening to vinyl that streaming can't give me. I wouldn't want to live without it. I tried for five years and failed.

you can spend $7500-$10k on a table and it will outperform most streamers, it will definately outperform sub $7500 streamers IMO of set up properly.

The OP has stated

"so I have no reason to think there’s a setup problem."  

"Is this par for the course for this level of vinyl gear?  What do I need to spend to get my vinyl gear to match the performance of decent digital?"

@lousyreeds1 Within this Thread, there are contributors to the Posts that have thought there has not been a set up problem for their Analogue Source, but over time have discovered that much more can be done for the Source that does not break the Bank.

Using your own request "What do I need to spend" and my statement " does not break the Bank." suggests very strongly not much monies are required.

In the short term, there is a great deal that can be taken on board for free, about what are readily available solutions to isolate the Vinyl Source from being affected by energy transferral from the ambient environment the Analogue Source is set up in. 

Why is isolating the Analogue Source needing to be considered ? The reasoning for it is to create a Mounting for the Analogue Source that allow the Stylus when in the Groove to send info that is as accurately as possible a facsimile of the Groove Modulations. It is this energy sent by the Cantilevers to the Armature and Coils that generates the electrical current sent to be amplified and produced as the end sound through the Speaker. 

In most cases of a set up for a Analogue Source, there is energy getting transferred from the Stylus that is not limited to Groove Modulation, there is also an Adulteration of the Groove Modulation, caused by energy transferral as a result od the Mechanical Operation of TT and the shortcomings of the Tonearm.

Additionally, there is the Adulteration of the Groove Modulation caused by the Transferral of Energies present in the ambient environment. It is the putting measures in place to reduce the negative impact of the present energies that leads t the subject and practice of creating Isolation.

Usually Isolation is created from the Structure Designed for the Analogue Source to be seated upon. 

This then leads to the question, what has been done in your listening space for the audio equipment to alleviate concerns about ambient energies impacting negatively on a Vinyl Replay. 

If the info above is alien to you and the owned TT is Perfect Levelled with the Tonearm Optimised as the set up.

How much Adulterated Energy is being Transferred via the Stylus to be produced as a Electrical Energy and then become sound?

When making a decision during Sound Comparisons with CD Source vs Vinyl Source, how much of the sound being listened to from the replay of a Vinyl LP, can it be said 'hand on heart', is the sound solely generated from the Groove, Modulation?

I would like to think others with experience 'chip in' and confirms the selecting a method as a supporting structure for the TT, has the benefit where substantial improvement in produced sound can be detected.

At this stage everything on offer remains without a cost, which must be an attraction.          

Try to get your hands on one of those optical cartridges from DS Audio...best i've ever heard vinyl sound anywhere seems to be from it....

Sorry to hurt your feelings, but, it still can't keep up with high end digital audio...it should be obvious where the bottleneck is.

But, my primary use case is a bit different, i'm in the process of digitize/salvaging stuff from old obscure long gone artists whose music might also get lost forever.