Hi Guys/Gals I have a Sugden A21SE which is a Pure Class A single ended design, I absolutely love this musical amplifier with its strangely plentiful 30wpc, it runs hots as they do, I always enjoy watching the faces of my uninitiated friends when they touch it after I mention they get hot, lol. But in this modern green era I wonder just how long do Class A amplifiers have before Greta Thunberg gets wind of this inefficient method of creating sound and pisses on the parade?
It seems likely, or possible, that mixed Class-A, A/B and Class-D could serve out three or 4 channels of sound to Tweeters, MR and woofers. But that would likely happen with speakers that are powered and have some DSP to serve as the basis for an active XO. However the Hypex Class-D plate amps and the recent Purifi Class-D, would examples of Class-D aps that could be seen as obviating most of the Class-A advantages.
The size of the Class A hifi audio amp market literally doesn't move the needle on global environmental impact and the earth's carbon footprint. Much more lower hanging fruit for any activists or policy interest groups to go after first - most obviously a move away from fossil fuels and on to renewables. It would be much more meaningful to power our societies (including our Class A amps) with offshore wind, solar, waste to energy, etc power sources. Anyone who cares about policy would be taking this approach and not targeting individual devices.
I hear you, and obviously the vacuum cleaner market is larger, and I’m not sure of your whereabouts but in the EU we had the power of vacuums, lightbulbs etc targeted quite tightly, I just think someone will come along and pick on them, I hope not mind.
When it comes, and it likely will come, it will come in the form of a consumption tax on electricity. A sin tax if you will. Or maybe a luxury item consumption tax (similar to a gas-guzzler tax). Just a matter of time.
When it comes, and it likely will come, it will come in the form of a consumption tax on electricity. A sin tax if you will. Or maybe a luxury item consumption tax (similar to a gas-guzzler tax). Just a matter of time.
I don't think that will happen because that would be a hit to electric cars, the powers that be wouldn't want that.
Fortunately for the planet, big iron Audiophiles are a dying breed. We’ll self select ourselves out of being important.
In California a combination of power crunch and environmental factors have caused the state to mandate energy efficiency for new pre-built PCs. Sales of those far outweigh the hobbyist PC gamer/builder. This is kind of an analog for the audio hobbyist.
They aren’t coming for your tubes let alone Class A amp for a long long time.
Lastly the issue isn’t how much you consume it’s how it is generated. Get yourself a nice solar power source and you’ll be just as environmentally conscious as anyone else. Who knows maybe even the micro-pellet nuclear reactors will come into vogue. :)
Get yourself a nice solar power source and you’ll be just as environmentally conscious as anyone else.
Solar isn't very cost effective in Michigan for the amount of energy it produces. I'm on certainteed's advisory council in my area and they won't even offer photovoltaic shingles because we don't get enough sunlight.
Class A is fine, compared to other items in the home there is little impact.
The big Evil is EV i had a Tesla S and their SUV and my electric bill went up $600 a month, the dial on my meter was moving so fast there was a constant whine. So i installed solar and two Tesla house batteries to the tune of 70k and my electric bill was still in the $200 a month range. I got rid of the Teslas and now the electric company is paying me monthly.
For everyone to be in an EV is a pipe dream the grid cannot handle what we have now let alone an EV world. So if someone complains tell them to complain to an EV owner.
They have about as long as they work for because you are not going to see but a few true class a designs anyway, count yourself lucky that you have your sugden because class a will soon be a thing of the past.
Not long in general but if you have one and love it nobody will make you get rid of it. Also there will always be things sold as long as there are people who want to buy. But not many want to so expect to pay a premium for an increasingly niche item.
Greta has never pretended to be anything but a kid. Her consistent message is to listen to the scientists. Stupid science.
Linear powered class D module with a low power, class A input preamp section is the future. High powered Class A output is like using a V8. Inefficient and wasteful.
I seem to notice that equipment in the "hifi" world that sounds good, tends to stick around for a long time. Vinyl records with the right combo of equipment sounds good, and fill that niche for carrying on the torch of nostalgia. Tube amps survived solid state amps, hence they are still around, and again, the nostalgia of tubed equipment lives on. Class A amps, they sound good, and just like record spinners, and tube amps, they have their foibles but most importantly, it sounds good. A few decades ago, I bought a pair of Nelson Pass's Aleph 1.2 Mono Class A bruisers; still have them, and they sound wonderful to this day.
In short, if it sounds good, and Class A amps check that box, then it will have longevity in the market. The designs will get better, the transistors plus transformers will get better, the caps will get better, hence technology will help keep Class A alive.
Class A is still very popular Pass labs 1st watt is very popular as well as their integrated 60 very good products if you have efficient speakers ,still a very solid choice.
Class A is a niche market. It's bought like jewelry because people want it. It will probably last forever.
I noticed the lead question mentioned a single ended class A amp. ALL single ended amps are classe A. They have to be, the circuit is inherently class A. So if single ended amps last, so will class A.
Popular mechanics last year had an issue that spoke of small neighborhood reactors.. The cool thing, it alluded to being VERY safe.. Rod disposal is the issue. I think this addressed it.. The Russians already have one that is floating just for energy production with minimum waste.. In winter months when BTU drops on natural gas, these guys pick up the slack without the carbon footprint increase to meet severe winter demands. Good idea.. Sure beats the Fukushima cover up.. Is that what Russia uses them for? I’d doubt it..
Sink it.. Problem gone.. Just have to worry about Godzilla’s, nephew or something..
Class A will never go away.. Just ME away from it. I don't miss my little heaters.. I'm on class Ds for another month and on to class A, A/B valves through the fall, winter, and spring.. To darn hot for the inland Bay Area. 20 degrees difference between where I live and the coast.. Over 110 a few times through the summers here..
Yeah Sugden .. a big fan .. P and C 51’s and also 2 integrated in the Past.
They are energy efficient as they do multiple tasks. Amplification and heating in 1 unit, how good is that !!! Perfect for cold climates, though lets not mention hot locations. These class D things can only do one thing ... pftttt
As others say sling a solar panel or 3 on your roof and you are instantly green and world luv’d .. I have 15Kw burbling along on my roof and am anxiously waiting for the day Batteries are actually cost effective !!
When you think of upgrading look at the Accuphase Class A amps, I now run an A70 behind a Supratek Dual DHT pre, BTW another valve heating unit !! Long Live Class A and may your Class A amp continue to be a blessing.
Enjoy and stop worrying and dreaming about Greta .. Lol ..
Why don't manufacturers list the amount of amps (current) their amplifiers and receivers put out. It is nothing to do with watts. It all has to do about current.
I think they hide this number because they know their amplifiers do not produce much current.
“The amplifier does not require any maintenance. While the design is conservative, this is a hard running amplifier, as single ended Class A operation is the least efficient operating mode. In fifteen years the electrolytic power supply capacitors will get old. Depending on usage, you will begin to have semiconductor and other failures between 10 and 50 years after date of manufacture. Later, the sun will cool to a white dwarf, and after that the universe will experience heat death.”
So long as people want the very best, it’ll last forever. Nothing comes close to a Linear Solid State >100w Pure Class-A that can also do big current down into low impedances. IE: keep close to doubling wattage for each halving of impedance down to 2ohms
@rocray you listed all my beloved stuff. However, recently I gave up the Class A and think my new Clas A/B Pilium Hercules monoblocks do at least the same job, actually way better. But the V8 and V Twin - no way to be replaced :). As for Ms. Tunberg I would suggest to focus on promoting not eating grapes as this kills some unborn wine, cogniac, etc.
Nice choice in the Sugden a21se, I got one in silver. That 30 watts is deceiving. It drives my Tannoys nicely. It does run pretty hot, but I do not keep it on 24/7.
I just purchased a Luxman L-550AXII which is a variation on Class A. The best sounding solid state amp I have owned. And I have several tube amps both for guitars and hifi.
If anything I would say it makes a bit of a come back as we desire better and more organic musical tones.
When I got into Art Center in 1988 to be a car designer, an instructor said to be our class 'I do not want to see manual transmissions in your designs...they will not exist in the year 2000'.
Yet after graduating, every vehicle I bought, I tried to order a manual. Sometimes there wasn't an option. I love manuals and I drive in LA traffic.
Things in the US are market driven. Class A will always exist in some way. You'll always see a Model A Ford driving to a car show...even if it's an EV show.
I agree that it's very low hanging fruit. We are a drop in the bucket. Other things need to change. And change like this is gradual.
Most government employees aren’t very good at anything technical or involving math, so if we don’t tell them about Class A, they certainly won’t figure it out on their own.
I have three Class A amps that collectively weigh over 300 lbs. and only put out 135 watts total. And I have a straight 6 powered auto that sounds sooo good at 8,000 rpm that I can't resist hearing it frequently.
OTOH, unlike many less fortunate, I live in an area where the electricity comes from hydro power instead of burning dead dinosaurs and plants so the environmental effects ate much less. It is the coal burners that should be buying bicycles and installing water wheels in their local streams!
Why don't manufacturers list the amount of amps (current) their amplifiers and receivers put out. It is nothing to do with watts. It all has to do about current.
I think they hide this number because they know their amplifiers do not produce much current.
Wonder why this group doesn't talk about this?
Larry, I think you would get more of a response if you started a new topic about this. I, for one, would be interested in learning about current in amps.
You must have a verified phone number and physical address in order to post in the Audiogon Forums. Please return to Audiogon.com and complete this step. If you have any questions please contact Support.
