+1 @dekay I am with you on your responses.
Also @sudnh is right on money:
Sounds more to me like you put together a poor sounding main audio system like many people do and you are now in lament.
If anything I have found that the better your system is able to bring out the "liveliness" or make your music "more alive", the more you enjoy your music and start exploring genres that I found boring before. If the OP put together a system that probably sounds analytical or "not interesting enough", then let's they probably learned a valuable lesson to not spend money just because they have them. I have to guess that the second system costs close to $4k (used?). and 25X of that....strange!
But also one more point I note is the "open floor". Music often "blooms" in such space and it is beautiful. Not sure about OP's down stair room. So if the OP would have hauled his "primary system" into the "open space" and then decided before selling, then that would have made sense. Hope they did that. But like @dekay , I am not sold on this post.
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@xp200dr - congratulations on reaching a satisfactory system and getting off the upgrade bus. For myself, I like variety to keep from getting tired of my system - tube, SS, various carts, full range and flea watt systems.
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If my system doesn't take me back, from the here an now (listening room), back to the there and then (musical event)*, with my recordings; I don't feel it's doing it's job.
*provide a reasonably believable simulacrum of the recording space (ambience), SPLs, instrument sizes/voices, vocals and their locations in that space.
If it does accomplish that: I'm assured of it's ability to faithfully reproduce whatever my prerecorded media contains (good or bad).
The objective is ALWAYS my enjoyment of the music.
Whether running a system for an event, recording it or listening to one at home; I've never been able to enjoy music, unless it's well conveyed (good equipment, well set up and adjusted).
Far as the music: I've enjoyed hearing my kids and grandkids, as they've (haltingly) practiced their very first instruments, every bit as much as any Pros I've heard in concert (lost count of those).
(different strokes...)
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OP's listed location is in a major flood zone of Helena.
DeKay
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I found myself listening much more to my 2nd system and nowhere near as much in my dedicated treated room with a reference level system costing >25x the price of my downstairs system
Nope, if the reference level system is not working for you, you need to spend MORE money, not less.
Hasn’t reading 25 years of Stereophile taught you anything?
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Seriously, @xp200dr, I find your behavior puzzling, and you might want to consider consulting a psychologist, preferably one who understands music and audio gear—though maybe not immediately. The price points of the two systems are so drastically different that it’s hard to find any justification for your bizarre behavior. 
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Sounds more to me like you put together a poor sounding main audio system like many people do and you are now in lament.
OP has never described his "main system," but how bad could it have been, considering that he claims it cost 25 times more than the combined price of "a used Pathos integrated, BS Node and Forte IV" (meaning that OP’s "main system" would have been a $200+k system)?
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Sounds more to me like you put together a poor sounding main audio system like many people do and you are now in lament.
I didn’t do that. I have years changing equipment with the goals of removing edginess, graininess, sibilance, harshness so I have a detailed relaxing wall-to-wall sound and spend most of my music listen time in front of my main system.
When I hearing an intriguing new melody I can’t wait to hear it on my main system.
glad you found your nirvana by backing out but I believe your journey was flawed to begin and end with.
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@immatthewj it’s always funny when someone writes and very ’tough" post and then disappears. This forum is therapy for some. (My doctor specifically warned me about the negative effects though)
Oh my goodness! What are the negative side effects or adverse reactions associated with this form of therapy, @grislybutter ? I had never considered that aspect. The post actually reminded me of a previous member who I believe was banned but occasionally stops by under an assumed screen name and drops a ninja-post and leaves. I could be wrong about that, but that is who it made me think of.
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@immatthewj it's always funny when someone writes and very 'tough" post and then disappears. This forum is therapy for some. (My doctor specifically warned me about the negative effects though)
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Where did OP go?
He pulled up the anchor (which was a $200k system) and sailed away in his trolling boat.
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@xp200dr Very refreshing - thanks!
@bipod72 Good observation about guys and their tools/equipment
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As I stated on another thread.
The point of high fidelity is to be able to hear what the artist intended. Therefore, the dichotomy between “listening to music” and “listening to audio” is false. The latter is at the service of the former.
My “bad” recordings sound better on good audio. They may be bad but at least I am hearing with greater accuracy what was put into the grooves. It makes no sense to listen to bad recordings on a middling system, that simply compounds the problem.
These days I never listen to music as background. I have a dedicated room, and I dedicate time.
It seems to me that few people know how to listen anymore. I find that to be true when I have guests up to theaudioatticvinylsundays.com . Even though I insist that people turn off their cell phones AND put them in a basket, half of them are still fidgety, have to ask questions or otherwise talk when the music is on, etc.
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I think it is great that he found a path to happiness. I did not think it was really preaching to all of us and suggesting any other approach is wrong. Although he did not specify what was in the dedicated room system, it might well be that he stumbled upon an entirely different sound with the likes of the Cornwall speakers.
If one is not familiar with the sound of high efficiency speakers, like horn systems and wide-range driver systems, the sound can be a revelation. There is a lot of life, energy, and micro-dynamics that many high end speakers don't deliver (they tend to sound more polite and drab). Pair high efficiency speakers with low-powered tube amps and that steps things up a notch or two. The sound of these kinds of speaker seem to grab your attention and make you want to listen longer without losing interest and focus.
Yes, the Cornwall does have some tonal balance issues and it is a little rough sounding, but, if you are in tune with its virtues, these issues can be forgiven. I don't want to cause trouble for someone who is pleased with their purchase and thinks he is out of the rat race, but, there are plenty of other alternatives delivering this type of sound that I think are much better, but, many are considerably higher in price. Cornwalls can be considered entry level in this world; don't go looking if you are afraid of stirring the beast in you.
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Where did OP go? Did he/she not stick around because of the less than supportive responsive comments at first? Still being a newb with only a couple hundred posts compared with others in the thousands, I can relate. Early on I may have sometimes come away miffed that something I posted was met with criticism or ridicule. In those moments I had a choice, ether fade away or keep plowing ahead in a form I generally enjoy, in a hobby I truly love.
one of my dads legacies to me and my brother was he taught us how to sail. We as a family have hundred of hours of amazing memories. My dad’s sailboat was pretty stout, slow and made up of rigging and gear that was either well worn or found second hand. Did that in any way decrease our enjoyment? Absolutely not! There were several of of my dad’s friends who had the latest Jboats, with all the high dollar gear. They used to try and get under my dad’s skin about how much faster or better their boats were. Didn’t bother my dad one bit. And this was back in the day when someone actually had to have the guts to say it right to his face 😜.
He was in love with the experience, not the gadgets. And I would argue just as good under sail as anyone. He had a saying that I use all the time, and it’s applicable in many situations. “If your house falls down, do you blame he hammer or the carpenter?”
I guess my point is I know what music i like, what I like about my system, and just enjoy the process and AG. I try and do the next right thing, treat others with kindness, and if I dont have anything nice to say, I say nothing.
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It’s inevitable that in these Forums certain topics will reappear with regularity. Thee OP has however written a thoughtful post and I don’t like seeing the incoming that he drew. I hope he sticks around and continues to contribute.
I was out of touch with music for about 3 weeks and have now returned home. My living room has a mid fi system and yes, it sounded heavenly. The following day I was in my dedicated room with the big rig and it went to another level.
I was in Bordeaux at the end of my 3 weeks in France. After a few days of St. Emilion 2007 my Chicago home had one bottle of red from a Southern Illinois winery. Let’s just say that the difference in enjoyment from my mid to HES was not as profound as the oenophile letdown
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@dekay thanks for cracking the case. I can sleep at night now!
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I think the point is to have at least 2 systems and one has to costs 25x of the cheaper one. In which case I just need
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To the OP. Welcome and thank you for sharing. I love music, and although I have a system that completely involves and engages me, I seem to enjoy music everywhere...car, pool, etc. I have enough gear for several systems, but I only listen to one...the main rig, which consists of Klipsch Lascalas, which I tweaked and modified, leaving them as original as possible. The CW IV are a very inviting, enjoyable and engaging speaker, and imo, beats out others at its price point. But I am quite partial to horns, and that "live" presentation. To each his / her own. Anyway, enjoy! MrD.
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@immatthewj no $200K system in my house. Only spent $199,999.99 and it was a bargain 
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My Bose Wave Radio sounds great.
And I bet it kicks the ass of your $200k system.
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25 X the new/fave setup (valued @ around $8K) would be $200,000.00 or more.
@dekay , I am the odd man out on this one, because given the choice, without even hearing both systems, I would take the 200+k system as opposed to the 8k system. But since that isn't a choice I'll ever have to make, I am not going to sweat it.
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My Bose Wave Radio sounds great.
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"I found myself listening much more to my 2nd system and nowhere near as much in my dedicated treated room with a reference level system costing >25x the price of my downstairs system."
Having perused the OP's online data the ">25x the price" would seem to be utter BS as the OP has been seeking/buying "used" components in the $500-$6,000 range.
25 X the new/fave setup (valued @ around $8K) would be $200,000.00 or more.
I agree with what some of what the OP says, but I disagree with the BS nature of the post.
DeKay
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This forum is for sharing audio experiences period so excellent first post @xp200dr and welcome to the forum! And I agree paper cones, high sensitivity speakers and tubes are what makes me happy. So I think you're on an excellent path and now just enjoy the music!
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In my experience there is a fine line between getting that "you are there" sound and crossing into fatigue and brightness. I've also learned for myself that the source is tremendous importance.
Enjoyment of music is my goal and it's taking less shiny stuff these days to make it happen, but if I hit the lottery could easily go in the other direction again :)
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I have 4 different audio setups...living room, balcony, upstairs bedroom, main bedroom. They all sound different and I like that.Chillin out and listening to different types of music on different systems, is what I always wanted and now I'm lucky to have these set ups.But I also have enough equipment for more set ups ,and I mean alot more.I really do have to unload so equipment So my daughter won't have to.lol
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@xp200dr - Purely for curiosity sake what comprised the reference system that you stopped enjoying?
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@mglik
I used to read under the covers at night so my parents could not see the light. I remember the sweat dripping down my face… maybe it’s the covers you need to recreate the experience. 😊
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xp200dr
Congratulations on finding your sweet spot. I'm still on the upgrade path for now, I still have a few things I want to upgrade: DAC, streamer, some cables, and a properly treated listening room.
I hope that when I get there (and I think I will), I'm as satisfied as you are now. Happy listening
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Great thread. I’m not sure why folks at the top reacted to it the way they did. I like hearing all perspectives.
Someone above (too lazy to quote here) noted how you might go in one direction and learn far later that your hunt was in the wrong area altogether! I’ve done that way too many times. But we live and learn.
I still love discovering gear that gets me deeper to seeing Oz without remortgaging my home! Just picked up a cute used Sachs preamp that has been such a fun time!
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For me, it all started when I was 5 listening under the covers to Elvis on a transistor radio. I adored him and that little magic box. 1958.
Don’t think I ever recaptured that feeling.
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A lot of this gels so much with my experiences so far. It’s been a struggle, at times. Paper / pulp / fiber midrange cones rock! Done right, they sound so natural. I love (some) Tannoys, and my favorites all have that paper midrange cone. I also really like the smaller Acora floorstanders - again, (advanced) paper cones (ScanSpeak).
A.) Lower expectations are more easy exceeded
Very much so. In other less audiophile-friendly groups, the mantra is "you spent $$$$ on xyz, of course you’ll convince yourself you love it". It seems you and I have a bit of the opposite problem. A big spend makes me more critical - it has a lot to live up to!
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The two variables that seem to be holding me back from feeling content are:
1. Identifying preference (historically)
2. Curiosity (currently)
I don’t necessarily think this takes away from enjoyment, but I often wonder how a different component or speaker would sound. This curiosity is often tampered down through music discovery and finding an artist that I really appreciate, but hadn’t known. Having a decent system to turn up and lean into when listening to this new find usually takes me away from this frame of mind. That’s just me and my personal journey, though! Mileage and paths (and destinations) always vary.
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OP,
Congratulations on your destination. My journey has been similar. However, I never dropped back to musically satisfying equipment I moved up and laterally to change the focus from details and slam which was excluding the music to musical with all the details and black backgrounds in proportion to live music. But the same fundamental epiphany that I had chased the wrong characteristics and ended up in the wrong… albeit enjoyable place.
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OP I have 3 systems , my main system is the one I play when I prefer listening to piano, and classical I call it Andra room, Then for classical and Acoustic I prefer the KLH model 9 speakers on my second system,, On jazz I like the X1 Borensen speakers . On my third system Iam using Omega rs8, Tekton impact monitor, Diapason adamantes, and technic sb speakers. I equally enjoy all of them. Each system have different capabilities in term of musicality and liveness performance.Honestly I learned on each one of my systems.
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all it takes to get a lot of love an sympathy is a few incredibly funny and intelligent comments at the expense of the OP. Got it :)
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For those of us who haven't haunted these forums for years/decades, sometimes posting a question or observation that's been trod upon before we arrived results in olde tymers grumbling about "this has been talked about" before, belittle what has been posted, and then grumbling further why the "hobby" of hi-fi enthusiasts is dying off. Only recently, in the last 5 years, have I been at a point in life where I can upgrade my system to have a better quality mid-fi system. I don't have the luxury of $, space, or time to search for the next best higher-end components to get me to some magical point where I think/feel the music sounds so amazing but only willing to listen to "audiophile" tracks because the system reveals too much.
I'm all about enjoying my music and not obsessing about gear. So it's great that you've reached that point where you're happy with your path. I'm on an upgrade path for my speakers and a better integrated amp. After that, I won't have any real reason to continue upgrading other than when/if something breaks. I want to enjoy all my records/CDs/digital albums regardless of their master quality.
Much like cycling, there are those (usually guys) who get seriously into the sport and spend loads of cash on high-end carbon bikes, components, etc, etc and yet don't ride any faster than they would have on a high-quality steel-framed bike. I know this because I've ridden with them. I have nice bikes but they're not exotic. I love to ride them, work on them, and upgrade bits and pieces as needed. Their purpose, to me, is to ride and enjoy getting outside for me time. It's not to obsess about the bike itself where I'm riding and thinking about "what if" upgrade options the entire time.
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- I started building my system 5 yrs ago. Everything I added or changed made an improvement in sound. I didn't know what I didn't know.
Finally, it hit me. Music was just right. I could listen for hours. It was relaxing yet powerful. .
Sounds like you got it figured out. I also don't know why people feel the need to play Muppet judge and say sparky things. Ignore that. Welcome aboard.
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When I was a kid I listened to small hand held radio.it was all I had and enjoyed the static.grew up became productive in society and could buy better stuff.now I calm the savage beast with music.it is my only drug. It takes me to happier times.i enjoy learing off this forum with great conversations.as with all data you have to decide what fits your enjoyment.so enjoy the music stay healthy and congrats on your post.
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My most enjoyable system is my outdoor system comprised of (modified) Boston Acoustics rock speakers, outdoor sub and (modified) "mid-fi" streamer/amp. The music enhances great conversation. Wine and beer help file down any audio "burrs" in the preceived sound quality.
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My epiphany is building the house of stereo. Other than still loving to listen to music concerts live, I no longer do much music listening on my secondary system, or my car for that matter, because it is so much less enjoyable. I think a lot of it has to do with what level listening room and system you had achieved.
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I personally can relate well to this post, as for a while too I found listening to my second system more enjoyable than my much more expensive main system.
and I used my second system as a reference as I switched and swapped out components, including cables, in my main rig until I found those qualities.
I’m quite pleased with how my main rig sounds now and it my first choice 100% of the time. Second system still sounds great when family activities send me downstairs.
Glen
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xp200dr
Congratulations! You've reached the same place I've been at for quite awhile. It's a great place to be because it means no more feeding the obsession to try new gear. Now you get to sit back and just enjoy the music. As for the party poopers, every forum on the internet has it's share of ball busters, and this one is no different. Thankfully, they seem to be the minority on this particular forum.
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I too am just in this for the music. Enjoyed the post. It seems to have struck a nerve on some readers.
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@jastralfu I am 99% goofing and 1% serious. And that 1% was remembering my login
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@immatthewj it also feels like someone coming into a bar, full of drunks and telling them about his last AA meeting and the benefits of spring water.
I got a chuckle out of that one, @grislybutter . Thanks.
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Reads like a lot of projecting going on here.
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