When I see make an offer and no low baller . The seller is open to offer that is reasonable.He does not want to waste his time.
Does it make sense to "ignore low ball offers"?
Assuming the person wants to sell the item and is accepting offers (since he didn’t say the "price is firm") then why say "I will gladly ignore low ball offers" ?
Why not make a counteroffer to the low ball offer? Thats how cars, houses and most anything that doesn’t have a "firm" price is purchased.
If its because the seller doesn’t want to waste their time negotiating they should say so or simply grow-up a little bit and not get so easily offended by a low offer. Besides, a buyer has no idea what the seller is willing to accept unless you negotiate it.
I’ve sold and purchased a number items after negotiating from a low first offer.
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I've ignored low ballers (not just their 1st offer - all further attempts as well) MANY TIMES because - well, this is my hobby and I prefer to conduct it in ways that are enjoyable to me. Haggling, entertaining ridiculous lines of questioning (opening with "wHy ArE U sELLiNg"), and other "techniques" annoy the heck out of me, and I'll simply quietly move on (no need for exchanging insults). It won't kill me if a component doesn't move or takes longer to find the right buyer. I generally open pricing at least a little below the recent market, so any offer well below that generally gets a cringe reaction from me. ESPECIALLY if fielded within 24 hours of posting. Sometimes I ignore reasonable offers (not official offers which have expiration - offers in message form) that are a little below my ask - in those cases I'm probably waffling on selling the piece at all around that price, and it's not a matter of annoyance; I simply didn't get around to responding (I should do better in those cases). Now once a potential buyer proves to be a serious and reasonable fellow, I very often go over-the-top trying to be helpful in their system setup and with any questions they have. I'm very happy to share my experiences in this hobby! And of course - once money changes hands, it's job #1 to be professional and promptly get the item delivered as advertised. No drama, no emotions! |
When I sell I try to set a realistic asking price. Do I build in some room? Sure. But say I’m selling and asking $5k but figure the first $4250 takes it. If someone offers me $650 that’s not a serious buyer. And even if we were to agree on a price experience tells me that this buyer is going to be an after sales headache. |
There is no point in adding "lowball offers will be ignored" to a listing other than being a bit snooty. Just ignore any offer the seller considers unacceptable. As far as following an unwritten code, lowball offers are no different than unrealistic asking prices. 40% of new retail for a used item is in the realistic ball park. Some brands or models can be in demand and fetch more. Once made an opening offer of 50% of new retail that the seller considered insulting. Asking price was 90% of what he claimed to have paid and $1K more than retail for the newest model. There is unrealistic behavior at both ends of the spectrum.
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the way i sees it, audiogon is (or at least used to be) a bastion of higher-minded gentlemen/gentlewomen who are supposed to follow a certain unwritten code. making stupid offers (or listing gear at outrageous prices) is a breach of the code which doesn't merit a response. now, there's nothing wrong with seeking a bargain, and "lowball" is an inherently subjective term, but (like pronography) we all know an insulting offer when we see one. |
Everyone thinks of this differently. As for me, I’ve done a lot of buying and selling online. My F.S. listings are always priced rationally, and sometimes quite aggressively (unlike some that are just 10%-15% under list price, which is silly). My my listings always say, "Please, no lowballs." But of course lowballs pop up. The real reason is dedicated lowballers put out dozens of offers. Not a single offer is serious--usually they say little other than "will you take $xx?"--I have to assume the theory is every now & then the lowball will trigger a seller's desperation; then the lowballer can then flip & profit from the item. I never give lowball offers to sellers and just don’t want to deal with them when I'm the seller. To my way of thinking, they’re just drive-by opportunists, the opposite of serious buyers. |
Some buyers just throw a low offer out there to see if it'll pan out because sometimes it does and its just what they do. Some are ignorant to the process. Some are just playing games. If the offer is ridiculously off the mark I just ignore because I'd rather not deal with folks in any of those categories...it rarely works out. |
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There is nothing wrong with low ball offers . . . Sometimes a seller might be desperate to move something or needs to sell and you may not get your lowball price, but you might get a really good deal. As a seller, I don't take offense and lowball offers. I just say that they are way below the FMV for the item and that's that. No need to get offended or huffy about it. They just want a good deal and I'm OK with that. I won't lowball anything, but doesn't hurt for a buyer to ask. |
50% of new if outside warranty always seemed to me to be a reasonable asking point when I’m selling and that’s how I bid when buying. How did I come up with that number? I bought a HK USP40 pistol about 25 years ago. Hated it. Ergonomics, size, fit, .40 cal impulse/noise etc. (my usual carry gun is a SIG P229 in 357 SIG, FWIW). As the saying goes, it seemed like a good idea at the time. Pistol sat in the safe for a few months, I took it to the LGS (Local Gun Store) where I was offered 50% of new price. Oh. I then sold it through Gunbroker to a guy about 20 miles away for 70% of the new price and he thought he was getting a great deal. I consider what I “lose” in a sale to be “rent.” So I bought the gun, ran a couple hundred rounds through it, took it to the range a couple times - what I “lost” might be close to what it would’ve cost to rent the gun, the lane, and the ammo from the local indoor range over that time so it’s kind of a breakeven point and a “stupid tax.” Stereo gear? I see guys selling cartridges that were $6,000 new with - allegedly - very low hours for about half that but, there are many items on, say, USAudiomart that have been there for a year or more and the asking price is so close to new, forget about it. They’ll box the things up, stick ‘em in their attic and sell in ten years for more as “vintage.” Maybe. This is called “Laissez-faire economics.” A thing is worth what someone is willing to pay for it, no more, no less. It’s why I can’t watch another episode of - even a commercial for - “American Pickers” where you see some guy who’s a couple heartbeats short of a pine box and a wake telling the boys “I know what I got and it’s worth a lot more than that” but who’s buying? Iffen it don’t sell, it’s worth nothing, and it’s going to continue to sit in your garage collecting dust, rust and rats’ nests and excrement. That’s how I once bought a 1937 Harley Davidson knucklehead (EL?) for $200 back in 1974. JMHO FWIW YMMV |
@sbayne what I like to do if the offer is insultingly low is retort with over the asking price as much as they went below it. i.e. I’m asking $2000 for some thing and I get a lowball offer of $600, I’ll reply with $3400. Usually I get no reply (perfect) or a reply of “that’s more than what you were originally asking” or “thats ridiculous, you’re insane” to which I reply “now you know how I feel.” |
If the offer is not totally low-balled I will usually try to negotiate. But, I always respond just to be polite. Are low-ballers a PITA? Sure, but being polite is pretty easy. I always try to remember and take the high road so to speak. Case in point, just had an offer on a preamp I am selling. The buyer offered a trade for an older pair of Thiel speakers. Interesting idea, but the speakers are worth less than half of what I'm asking for the preamp. I would consider that pretty low-ball! I politely replied that it was an interesting idea but I couldn't do that deal. No sweat on my part. Was the buyer being an a-hole with the offer? Maybe, maybe not. Maybe just looking for a sweet deal. Let's be nice, people. |
There is a very huge difference between a reasonable counter offer and a low ball number. A low ball number is an attempt to get something for nothing and totally not considering market value. Any potential buyer worth their salt knows how much the blue book value of an item is. Also take into account an item's rarity that that totally changes the blue book value. I research the current market value (high, average, low, etc.) of any item that I plan on selling, taking also into account condition, having the accessories, original boxes, etc. and place my asking price accordingly. I typically price items to sell so my price really doesn't have my room. Also, I am never desperate to sell. So, when I receive a low ball number I will completely ignore it. If I receive a reasonable counter, I will consider it. People watch way too much of these insulting flipper tv shows and think that there is actually a free lunch. I don't have time for insulting flippers or lowballers enjoy |
@jl35 You can accept another offer even if you already have a counter and are waiting for a response. |
Most sellers on Audiogon take care of their investments and they are not usually your brick-and-mortar brands. With that being said, my rule of "low ball offers" are 15% -20% on 2nd market value whether I'm the buyer or seller. You can always check the "sold and complete" sales of an item on the other website (not the asking or selling price). There are too many people thinking that they can get flea market deals on fine audio equipment. I would recommend purchasing your stuff from a Fleamarket if you want "low balled" price. But on the other hand, if someone is listing an item at a great price, then jump on that purchase while you can. |
Price negotiations are just business. It's never personal. This is a free country and the buyer is free to make a low ball offer as I am free to not take it. |
It all depends on how aggressively I've priced the gear for sale. I rarely use that statement, as it does convey a bit of arrogance. Better to say "firm and fair" or "a little flexibility with the price" if that is the case. As a buyer, I am very wary of companies that routinely discount their products by 40-50% based on MSRP, yet somehow make it sound like it's a limited time offer. Seems to be more associated with cables and various tweaking accessories. |
Problem is many sellers inflate their price somewhat expecting that they will receive low offers and their prices will give them room to negotiate a fair price, so what exactly is a low ball offer. Earlier in this post a few mentioned 30%, certainly a low offer, but consider if a seller inflates his price by 15% expecting a buyer to ask for a 15% discount, as they routinely do, a minus 30% offer could in fact lead to a successful conclusion at a fair price. I'm far less concerned with the amount of the offer than the manner in which it is conveyed. |
I respond to every offer I receive. If I find the offer really low, I will just say "No, thanks for your interest." If they are really interested, they will make a better offer. Negotiation can start from there. I have made more than one sale that way. If also helps to weed out people not interested in negotiating. On the other hand, I had one item for sale. To make the example easy, I am going to say the asking price was $1000. This item routinely sells for $1200 and more. The potential buyer and I haggled back and forth a bit and settled on a price of $850 with shipping split. I made arrangement for this person to pay and waited for some time and got nothing. I contacted the person and was asked if I would take $600 for the item. I told him we already had an agreed upon price. Crickets for a couple of more weeks and then he asks if I would sell for $500. I responded with, "For you, I will sell for $950 and you cover the shipping." Never heard from him again. The item ended up selling for very close to my original asking price, so it ended up working out fine for me at least. |
As a prolific seller across a number of platforms for decades, lowball and BS offers are just a waste of time. If they are close, make a counter offer, but in my case I delete or ignore lowball BS, scammers, etc. If you are selling one item and rarely sell it's not an issue, but when you have multiple items listed and you have an endless stream of idiots sending lowball offers it's just not worth the time as these are NOT your buyers. |
Sometimes peoples expectations of a given price is unrealistic. Years ago I made an offer to a guy whose response was "go to hell". After a month or so he realized my offer was actually more than fair. He wanted to accept it. I told him that his "go to hell" attitude suggested that I take my business elsewhere. |
Do you need to sell it? Are you desperate? If so then respond. If it’s a ridiculous offer I’ll respond with a higher amount than what it is listed for. Most of the time I don’t respond. House bids are different, the realtor has to submit the offer, but the seller does not have to respond. The buyers realtor will tell the buyer to make a bid good enough to get a counter to get negotiating started. I don’t need to sell to buy what I want so I can sit on the piece for a while. Eventually everything sells. |
I think it depends on how low the balls are. If I list an item and get some insanely stupid offer I ignore it. If the offer is 1/2 my ask and the buyer gives some justification why his # is what it is (ie: "The Audiogon blue book says...." ) I'm encouraged that the buyer is both real and educated. I can work with that. Some listings are a joke. When some egocentric Malthusian lists his 20 year old worn out amp for what it retailed for 20 years ago it's nearly useless to negotiate. He's seeking validation and not a sale. These types get all huffy when you offer a real world FMV. Interestingly, an appraiser told me once that an item that sells at an auction is worth the second highest bid. Considering that a bit it made perfect sense. Assuming properly exposed to the market, in the end an item is worth what someone will pay for it. |
I’m absolutely ROTFLMFAO at most of these replies. The Selling Cabal that ordains, "I’m insulted by offers that God Himself deems as Low Balling, therefore the Serf doesn’t deserve the sweat off my brow", can happily be one of those listings I’ve seen on Audiogon for months upon months, never altering their price and never selling, as far as I can tell.
Hopefully their gear is happy, sitting in storage, gathering dust and going unused, while similar gear owned by Audiophiles who understand the art of negotiating finds new homes and starts to bring musical joy to a new owner as the "Circle of Gear Life" is renewed (cue the theme to "The Lion King"). Or....it's all a ruse. They don't want to sell their gear, but listing it keeps the spouse at bay. "Honey, I'm TRYING to sell it -- look, it's been listed for 12 months and I STILL don't have any legitimate offers (cough, cough)!" |
My personal experience when selling is this. When a lowball offer has been made, I usually look at the persons buy/sell history. Often, you find a person who has bought a lot of stuff. More than is reasonable for personal use, and has sold about the same. So I've got a lowball offer from someone who intends to buy and flip at a profit? For me that just reinforces the notion I am asking the right amount as someone else thinks they can also sell for more. And enough to make it worth their while. My thought for the day. Cheers. |
I lowball occasionally. When I do, I really don't care about the item that much, or if my offer is accepted. I certainly don't expect it to be accepted. I mostly do it in case the seller is desperate or they simply want the item gone. Also sometimes to show what I think of a greedy seller of an overpriced item. |
@sbayne "no low ballers" are frequently asking outrageous prices and 30% is middle of the road. |
Yes, I know people "ignore low balls". But why? Thats the point of the discussion It shows an utter lack of respect toward the seller. You aren't Best Buy, you are just a seller trying to represent what you have to offer transparently at a fair price. It makes the entire transaction reek when someone starts with a lowball. It also shows that they are either dumb, disrespectful, or just sleezy. You also risk getting poor feedback on the transaction. |
+1! emphasis added ! (1) in 99% of circumstances, the lowball shot across the bow is just a harbinger of a crummy tire kicker trolling, …. with no tangible intention to actually buy it unless he stumbles across an uninformed seller making a mistake or desperate to sell fast in the extreme , …. = don’t waste your time and don’t feed the troll for these fairy tales . (2) Buyer is now egregiously insulting Seller’s knowledge of fair and proper audio market prices and ignores all fair value decorum conversation = IMO negligible odds of every striking a deal. IMO this is a good reason to just block him out and remove him from every contacting you again which removes a habitual time waster from your orbit . |
