Can you give me your speaker suggestions?

If OP live in Pacific Northwest, then I may let him boroow my Vaughn Cabernett II speaker.

It has nice midrage using ceramic midrange driver and suitable for low poer tube amp due to high efficiency 94db/w.

As ti use two 10 inch active drivers, it go down to 27 hz or so.

https://youtu.be/HSTy9dkHWIw

Thomas

get 80 percent to speaker and 20 percent to amplifier  ,  you will happy because mostly sound coming from speaker , the bighest role on audiophile chain  ,,, believe me , you will no regret   ,, anyone can help me about transiator https://youtube.com/shorts/zRakw_KIfWI?feature=share  thanks everyone who help me understand this 

I heard the Cremora and it distorted badly when trying to play rock music. I guess if you like more quieter music, they would be ok.

ozzy

Hey everyone who has helped me, I wanted to post an update for those interested as well as ask a few more questions. 

I was able to get to a dealer a spend a couple of hours there and listen to a few brands that were mentioned here. 

first was the B&W lineup, I was surprised how similar their less expensive models were to the flagship, but the sound is not for me. too bright and in your face, had a lot more comparable bass than my current speakers , and more upper bass/lower midrange, but still not enough, felt as if there was no meat on the bones. very fast and detailed speakers, but to me they didn't sound dynamic, to me dynamic is the difference of quiet to loud (maybe im not explaining dynamic correctly) but these B&W speakers were never quiet, always something shimmering in the top end , the woofers seemed totally disconnected from the tweeter and mid woofer, sort of like my current speakers. that's the impression I was left with. they were connecting to a massive Macintosh integrated, not sure the model. 

next up was the sonus faber sonetto III, they did not have the v's in stock, but I was very impressed with these speakers, they hand punch, warmth, pretty dynamic as well, and the most shocking thing was the scale. I can believe how big everything sounded, the singers scale was life like, this might sound crazy but everything sounded bigger and fuller vs any speaker in the B&W lineup even the flagship although imaging not as precise as any of the B&W speakers. the sonus faber hooked up to a Yamaha integrated (I don't know the name but he said it was around $3K) 

the big surprise was the mission 770, maybe because I was biased against the look, and never really heard much about the brand, but these were a very engaging speaker, I don't know how to describe the sound, I think I need to spend more time with these (hooked up to Macintosh integrated) 

I heard a few other brands but nothing notable. 

a few people mentioned dynaudio, and there's a pair of Sapphire's on the used market for a fair price and somewhat close to me, I am planning to audition. anybody have experience with those?

also near to me is a pair of Cremona M, my thinking is that if the sonetto III impressed me so much, for not much more money on the used market perhaps the Cremona M will be even better.  

I would still like to hear the elysian 2, but no dealer within 7 hours seems to sell them and unfortunately none on the used market either. 

might be worth noting that I am planning to sell the Logos mk II and keep the 40wpc primaluna, until I can afford to sell it and upgrade to the evo 400 (75ish wpc). 

thanks again everyone! 

Definitely check out speakers from Dynaudio. Their tweeters are amazing and even their stand mounts dig down deep. I owned Heresy II’s for many years before moving to Dynaudio and never looked back. I would suggest listening to the Special 40, Contour 20i, Contour s1.4LE, Heritage Special, and if you can find a pair Confidence C1 Platinum, Signature, or Mk II. I think you will be impressed.

I use the Linkwitz LX521.4MG for many years now. If you want "the musicians in your room", this is your best bet, and, for what it delivers, the best value proposition in audio right now. Check out the website and see what people say about this system: https://linkwitz.store/news/. You can also see my own setup here: https://linkwitz.store/blog/2023/01/20/new-linkwitz-lounge-in-fremont-ca/

If you are technically inclined, you can even build the speakers from a kit that comes in a flat pack from Germany very much like something from IKEA - and as easy to put together. 'Saves you a bundle, and lets you chose the final looks (I had mine painted by MAACO in "Lexus- Pearl-White").

The sound of these speakers is like no other, as it produces what the late Siegfried Linkwitz called a "Phantom Stage" some feet BEHIND the speakers, where the musicians seem to perform in open space. The speakers themselves are acoustically "invisible". I cannot think of a more enjoyable reproduction, and for the price: hands down the best value there is! IMHO, of course. FYI: I am in no way affiliated with the Linkwitz brand nor do I have any financial interests. 

I will also suggest a pair of Vandersteen, in particularly the 2Ci

Try a Pair of ol Altec #19's

Efficiency and the Compression driver sound will be there and A Lovely low end

Please don't pay An insane price, Got mine new in the day for 1100 pair, and miss them to this day Jbl  L300 also

I'm really surprised at the results you got from the Pathos logos mk2, it was the one integrated I heard to make the mids from my persona 7f sound natural? Goes to show how important component matching is. You built larger cabinets for your speakers...damn. I can't top that.

The only time I heard the Reference brand. It was a few months ago when demoing some other speakers from a local seller. He had as a main speaker the Reflector I believe it was. The 12k version of the De cappo kinda ?? I will say it was DAMN impressive being pushed from some big pass amps. 

I’ll add a vote for the Ref 3a de Capo (currently listening to Bill Evans on them).

These are I believe the 6th set of speakers I’ve tried in this room since I converted it from my son’s bedroom. I’m done speaker shopping.

MA352, Feickert Volare w/Kuzma arm, Hana ML, and recently acquired SoundAnchors stands. 

Another vote for the Volti Razz. I have never been this happy or this enamored, (makes some of my friends and family a bit concerned).

..just as suggestion....find a Vandersteen dealer....they have speakers at many price points.

Depends based on your musical taste I would listen to Martin Logan Montis (one of the best they ever made better then the Summit 🤠definitely only drive with modern tubes though💯

and Harbeth HL5 plus (amazing)perhaps with a REL SUB but if you can stack up more $ then hold out and get a pair of Harbeth 40.2’s those are last stop 🛑 speakers and are very forgiving of electronics and can then upgrade that part as you go😎enjoy !

@curiousjim Maybe I should mention I have the left one on the left side of the left speaker, and the right one on the right side of the right speaker, both about 5 inches next to their respective speakers 

@curiousjim thanks for your reply, I currently have 2 PB 1000 pro's in stereo, I have the phase inverted on both, as without this setting I struggle to hear them. currently they are at -10 each on the power level, with the subs I am totally satisfied with the everything below 100hz down to about 30-35ish. I have them crossed rather high (80hz at a 6db/octave rolloff) without this, the range that im dissatisfied with (100-400) sounds even thinner and almost not existent.

very happy with the subs and their app, they don't sound boomy or slow, no complaints at all, they are however the biggest I can fit in my space, although I don't imagine I would need bigger.  

@mrdecibel thanks for your suggestions! I have damped all the areas you have mentioned with something similar to dynamat as I could not find dynamat at the time. I can not use the factory enclosures, the enclosures I built are better in every way. the factory enclosures make the speaker unlistenable to my ears, huge resonances around 2-400hz, anemic bass. I built ported cabinets about the same size as a forte (curved unibody design with bracing, 1 inch thick) and everything I was looking to improve, improved, just not enough unfortunately. they have served me well for about 2 years, and I will always keep them at least in a home theatre set up. 

If you still own the H3s, I would damp the mid horn, tweeter horn, and the woofer basket, with Dynamat, and use the factory enclosures. I would buy a Class A, ss amp ( I can recommend a few if you go in this direction ), and if you like tubes, use a tube preamp, to give you some of that warmth and color. Some of what you describe, cannot be done with tubes, ime. Elevate the H3s with a good pair of stands ( no longer use the risers of the H3s ), and as mentioned above, get a pair of powered subwoofers ( sealed ), and all this can be done below your budget. I will likely get some slack from folks here, but play a fast and articulate bassist, and listen to the attack, and sustain, of the notes. This is not tube amp territory, I am sorry to say. Any questions, you can email me. My best, always. MrD.

PL owner here. I run KT150s into NSMT model 75s. No bass issues and plenty of transparency. Good luck

Goldenear…..end of search…

IMHO a strategy to consider...

Ideally you want a speaker that can capture as much of the frequency response as possible. The greater the frequency response the greater the sound stage.

For your budget that might be in the 36hz - 40Khz range. I would then look for a sub to capture the lower Frequencies, which would not only provide you with the bass response you are looking for, but would greatly enchance the soundstage and flesh out the details within the midrange. 

Once you have identified speakers within the appropriate range, listen to them to find the brand that meets your personal taste. 

good luck

@palutena 

I am very familiar with the Klipsch Hersey and they really benefit from a subwoofer or two.  Look around for a used SVS SB2000 Pro or if you want more umph, the SVS PB2000 Pro. The software is good and allows you plenty of adjustments so it can blend in with your existing system.

All the best.

I have the following:

ATC SCM150 PSL

ATC SCM20 PSL

highly recommended.

I'd look at the Forte IV or CW IV--right up Klipsch's line.  

I'd bet the Forte IV would do the trick.  I actually think they have as much bass weight and meat on the low end as the CWIV because of the passive radiator in the  rear.  

Another option that I think would do it is the KLH Model 7.  It will be $4k a pair with stands.  I heard them at AXPONA and was amazed at what they could do.  I think they are in the league of the CWIV and maybe had a touch more finesse.  These will not hit the market until Q3 of this year per KLH's owner and engineer--who told me and others this at AXPONA. 

PS I own CWIVs

Volti Razz (as someone stated above) is a great recommendation too.  I adore Volta's sound in all of their offerings--ever.  Great loudspeakers. 

But, if you want to keep your amps, be careful with speaker selection.  I like the idea of high efficacy speakers.  This makes amp selection easier.

Great advice here. Do not try and match a speaker to your amplifier, try and match the speaker to your ROOM.  https://youtu.be/RbHPylgz4Us

Check out the Volti Audio Razz. Might be just what you’re looking for. Very well hand made in TN by Greg Roberts, sound excellent, very dynamic like all the Klipsch but w/ more nuance & better tone, look nice w/ lots of finish options & aren’t huge. I think they’re Stereophile class B ( if that means anything to you) & around $6K. 

Some great suggestions here, OP ... please take a look at:

https://www.salksound.com

TMR has several offerings in your budget:

https://tmraudio.com/speakers/floorstanding-speakers/?tab=products&page=6

Speakers will by far be the defining sound of your system. Sure, upstream electronics will make a difference and they need to match well, but by and large, speakers are what make a system sound the way it does. It sounds to me you like the idea of your speakers more than you like the actuality of them. I'm a Vandersteen guy and would strongly recommend something in their line as I think they can give you the "in the room" experience that you're looking for. I'd recommend some new model 2s or maybe some used treo or quatros. 

What I'd really recommend tho, is seeing what dealers near you have to listen to. It might be that you need to drive some hours to hear all these options, but go listen. Find what sounds good to you. Once you've done that, you can decide what the best electronics are and it might be that you need to take some time to figure that out. For instance, I just now got some new amps that have improved staging and depth and clarity. This is after spending the last 3 years looking for the right preamp and getting that right a a few months ago. Neither the amps nor the preamp fundamentally changed the sound of my speakers though. 

Ultimately what I'm saying is you'll get some ideas of what you might like here but before you spend 6k, go listen. 

@palutena The Duettos are certainly not small and they have a good sense of scale. I’m struggling to think anything as good as the Duettos at their price point, they are that good IMO.

I am going to second the recommendation of Elysian 2. And while at it, if you can, try the Mission 770. For compact floorstanders, I’ve had the pleasure of auditioning QLN Prestige 3 and they were stunning. They were out of your budget, but if cheaper Sonora is even 80% as good the Prestige 3, they should warrant consideration. 

OP- You pretty much described my Fyne Audio F502SPs

@auroravengeance I actually love how these bookshelves imaged today, but I think I would miss that sense of scale that I seem to hear with the floor standers ive heard so im pretty sold on a floor stander or at least a big bookshelf type. 

@knighttodd thank you for pointing me to this company, I have never hear of them before and im considering the halo 1 as that may be more practical for me. 

I also found this diy kit that I feel might fit the bill, https://www.troelsgravesen.dk/SBAcoustics-10.htm

he describes the sound as "Bass is deep, potent and dynamic. Need I say more? I won't. Middriver and tweeter deliver an astonishing level of transparency…Transient response is phenomenal!" but I cant find much information on them online from people who built them. 

As for everyone's suggestions, I will be visiting a few dealers that carry a lot of your suggestions, offerings from JBL, B&W, Dynaudio, wharfedale, monitor audio, have peaked my interest

thanks again for taking the time to help me out 

If you like horns there is no going back as the dynamics are addictive. Sonus Faber would be super boring unless you are into “audiophile” music… I am not. But they would be balanced. I heard the Olympica III and Cornwall Vi back to back at my dealer. The Sonus Faber is refined typical audiophile stuff (good not amazing) and the Cornwall is brash and hard in comparison but has much more lifelike dynamics and snap.

you can get a pair of JBL 590s for $1000 right now they are better in every way to your current speaker. If you hate the looks the 698 is about $1700. Both can be bought from places with return policy (60 day trial).

the Cornwall is the obvious choice if you like Klispch (no hate I own some as well) It is not too bad and will fix your issues with the heresy which IMO is a dumpster fire.

I think JBLs are much more refined and with less resonances (wiggles in the response) than the equivalent Klispch but they are more money. Cornwall IV (demoed) vs JBL 4367 (I own) and I will take the JBL every time as it does all things better.

There are a couple of pairs of JBL 4349 in your price range on audio mart. There is also a pair of 4367 on here right now for $8500. Cry once and own a speaker that is as good as they come.

Given your sonic preferences, room and budget, you might want to consider used Devore o/93’s.

For DIY, check out my modded Tyler acoustics Halo Extreme.  Upgraded crossover,  Audio Maven 12inch woofers , morel mids and Seas millennium tweeters.  Giant killers. Low dB and you hear it all. The speakers were very nice to begin with but I wanted more and got a little carried away.  Hope Ty don't get mad at me.

Palutena,

I highly recommend installing a dedicated circuit and a high quality receptacle like the Furutech GTX-D. This was one of the biggest improvements for low frequency response and attack. Dedicated line is about $300 to $400, and the receptacle is about $175.

This will pay large dividends whether you keep or change your speakers. Better yet have a second line pulled, might be a couple hundred dollars more. Use one line for only the amplifier (Plug amp directly into the receptacle and NOT through a conditioner), and the other for signal components.

Use a good power cable, Zavfino, Audioquest , or DH Labs make good cables for a reasonable cost…..$200 to $300, more expensive if you choose.

Perhaps for your case a bookshelf might be a better option?

I think Audiovector R1 Arrete is perfect for your needs. It is incredibly meaty sounding for a bookshelf and certainly has enough bass. 

If you can spring an additional thousand, the new Triangle Magellan Duetto 40th Anniversary is awesome. 

@captaindidactic I will look into those, I have no problem going the diy route, I’ve watched some of his videos on YouTube and he seems to know what he’s doing.

update:

I got my hands on a eq and had to boost the the 200hz range 4-6db to find a satisfying level. some people have told me it might be a room problem or a source problem because I shouldn’t have to boost it that much in order to find it satisfying.

out of curiosity I dusted off a 20 year old psb bookshelf speaker that my dad had in storage (6ohm 88db). immediately the range I was missing was there, more weight and punch out of a 6 inch two way with the same source and both my amps ran them with no problem. of course with these speakers Im missing the open midrange range and upper frequencies, im missing the way acoustics guitars, vocals and horns just seem to flow out so effortlessly as they do with the heresys. and of course the same sense of scale was not there with the bookshelf. but it was nice to know it seems to not be a room or source issue, and so I will continue the hunt for new speakers.

Since you said you would consider DIY, my recommendation is to add a Zobel Network to each driver in the enclosure. Almost every loudspeaker can be improved by flattening the impedance curve and therefore allowing the crossover to perform at its best. All you need to do is remove each speaker, disconnect the wires, and measure the DC resistance and Inductance with a meter. Attach the calculated resistor and capacitor in series between the terminals, reattach the wires and replace the speaker.

Speaker Zobel / Impedance Equalization Circuit Calculator

If you are really keen, you could then add a Zobel Network to the external loudspeaker terminals after doing fresh measurements, and then perhaps even add another Zobel Network at the amplifier. Disconnect the speaker wires and measure the resistance and inductance of the wires while still connected to the speaker.

I switched from the original Heresy model to Monitor Audio Silver 500 7G and I have been very happy.  One of my listening buddies who complained about lack of bass on the Heresy is now very happy.  Bass is tight and very present, but not overwhelming.  I do have a large rectangular room that is pretty ideal and I am driving them with a Cary Audio SLI-100.

If you are handy, try GR Research speakers. I brought my speakers down for an upgrade and ended up purchasing their NX-Otica's. I listened to their big brother, the NX-Tremes and was totally blown away. I have listened to many high end systems and NX-Tremes were one of the very best I have listened to. The slightly younger brother sound almost as good. Type in NX-Oticas into youtube and you will hear what I'm talking about! Good luck!

Having desperately tried to like Klipsch, to me, they sound simply awful, I'm sure my ears bleed. Monitor Audio and Harbeth are the other extreme. I use a 40 watt tube amp with EL24 tubes and drive either pair of my Audio Physics ( 89dB/ 4 ohms) louder than anybody needs. Detail is astounding, soundstage is better.

Truth be told I'm not a fan of Prima Luna. Auditioned the EVO 400 recently but wasn't for me.  With that being said GoldenEar speakers may be an option for you. 

+1 for Focal Electras.  I purchased model 1027 Be in 2007 and always loved them.  I moved them to my 2nd bed room.  You should be able to find that model or related model numbers of Electras on the used market within your budget.

Diy is an option for sure although I wouldn’t know which one to suggest.

If you like the live detailed sound of the Klipsch but want more meat in the bones and an easier listen Tekton is really good and can be pushed by about anything with differing sound quality success but not lack of power. Just a thought.

Love me some Focal speakers also. 5-6k won’t get you too far into the newer stuff but some Electras would be really nice.

thank you every for taking the time to reply! 

the Cornwalls I feel would be perfect, other than space, even though its a decent size listening area, its a shared room and unfortunately cant have that big of a foot print at leas for the time being. 

you all have peaked my interest on dynaudio, elysian 2's, and B&W, ill definitely have to make a trip to the closest dealers (about 2 hours away) and report back when I get a chance to hear them (hopefully this weekend or next) 

im also playing with the idea of selling both of my amps, and getting a one of the 70ish wpm PrimaLuna amps (either the current evo 400, or the older dialogue premium hp) perhaps this is the best solution for me for the tube sound I like and more power I will likely need. 

You sound like a B&W guy. They completely play to your tastes. Load them up with watts (MacIntosh) and you’ll be in Heaven. Go listen to them.

@palutena Wrote:

Can you give me your speaker suggestions?

I am using a prima luna prologue premium with 37ish watt/channel,

my current budget is around $4-6K USD,

Klipsch Cornwall IV!

https://www.klipsch.com/products/cornwall-iv-floorstanding-speaker

Mike